On today’s Legally Speaking Podcast, I am delighted to be joined by Deborah Carrillo. Deborah is the General Counsel, Partner at Menlo Ventures. After studying Maths at Stanford University, she went on to complete her JD at the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law. Deborah was a Corporate Attorney at Pillsbury before joining Menlo as General Counsel in 2020. She has been a strategic advisor across every dimension in the firm, with her work directly shaping how Menlo has formed its structure.

So why should you be listening in? 

You can hear Rob and Deborah discussing:

– Prioritising Fit Over Prestige

– Relationships Are Career Multipliers

– Being Ready to Seize Opportunities

– Effective Leadership Starting with Enabling Others

– Success Requires Going All In — With Balance

Connect with Deborah Carrillo here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborah-carrillo-38840465/

Transcript

Believe in going all in on what you’re doing. 

I really focused in on what I thought would be a good culture for me, a good fit for me. I think really finding that and what’s a good fit for you, not necessarily what’s the most prestigious, thinking about the people and a place that you can envision yourself long term. That was really key to me actually.

Part of me going to Menlo was also searching and hoping that I would have a little bit better of a work-life balance. And that was part of what was attractive about going to Menlo. And it has been. 

On today’s Legally Speaking podcast, I’m delighted to be joined by Deborah Carillo. Deborah is the general counsel partner at Menlo Ventures. After studying maths at Stanford University, she went on to complete her JD at the University of California, Berkeley School of Law.

Deborah was a corporate attorney at Pillsbury before joining Menlo as a general counsel in 2020. She’s been a strategic advisor across every dimension in the firm, with her work directly shaping how Menlo has formed its structure. So, a very big warm welcome to the show, Deborah. Hi Rob, thanks so much for having me. It’s great to be here. it’s an absolute pleasure to have you finally on the Legally Speaking podcast. And before we jump into your wonderful legal career, we do have a couple of customary icebreaker questions here.

on the show. Firstly, what is your favorite beverage and what is your preferred choice of footwear on a typical work day? I wish I was original, but my favorite drink is coffee. That is the fuel that feeds me. It’s not it, I die. ⁓ and let’s see my footwear depends on kind of the day. ⁓ if I feel like I need to really power up and be power Deborah, I like some heels that gives me a little hype.

⁓ but ⁓ otherwise I like some nice comfy Adidas. Nice. Well, with that, coffee and Adidas, we can move swiftly on to talking all about you. So to begin with, would you mind telling our listeners a bit about your background and career journey? I actually started out as a teacher, as a math teacher in public schools. and that was part of a 10-year plan to eventually go and do education policy.

⁓ and litig impact litigation. so I thought I’d start in schools, learn about the whole educational system and then move on ⁓ to law school and get my degree and and start litigating all the the things that matter in in education. And during that time while I was at law school I realized that I mean while I was teaching, I was that the most impact I thought I could actually have was being in the in a classroom. But ⁓

That was not going to happen for the rest of my life. I loved teaching, but I was a teacher of middle school students. ⁓ so let’s see. Do you have an equivalent of middle school? Do you understand what middle school is? Yeah. We have obviously different systems over here, but I’m with you, so I know. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so it was, you know, you know, the the worst years of most people’s lives, you know, that the eleven, twelve, thirteen year olds

⁓ and it was very it was it was a good time, but I didn’t think I w really wanted to be a teacher for the for the rest of my life. ⁓ so I did still go to law school and ⁓ was there. ⁓ I s I really wasn’t quite sure what I wanted to practice, but I summered at Pillsbury, Winthrop Shaw Pittman in San Francisco and and I really enjoyed the corporate work that I did there and I really enjoyed the people that were doing that kind of work and so that kind of took me

in that direction and in San Francisco when you’re doing corporate work, you’re doing venture work a lot of times. So I started out ⁓ working in as you know a representative of startup companies and then also venture funds ⁓ and practiced for 10 years. And then after 10 years I made partner and one of my clients, Menlo Ventures, reached out and wanted to make their first in-house hire. And that’s what started that whole transition into in-house. So I

Went to ⁓ to Menlo Ventures in twenty twenty and I’ve loved it. It’s been a great experience. And hugely successful and done so many amazing things. And just to sort of go back through a few of those those hoops, because I’m sure there’s been a lot of lessons and a lot of wisdom you can share with our listeners, the first one that springs to mind is ⁓ how did you find your first role in the legal industry and how did you find breaking in, as you mentioned from sort of maths, breaking in? In the US, like for I don’t know if this is also similar in the UK, but

for after your first year of law school, you often go and you summer at ⁓ a law firm. ⁓ and so that’s what I did. And identify I think the hardest thing at that point is really figuring out because you interview with a bunch of different law firms and you really just figuring out which one is the right fit. They all feel the same. That’s a bunch of names, you know, there’s like, you know

You know, like just who what I thought would be a good culture for me, a good fit for me. and I think really finding that and like really focusing in on what’s, you know, a good fit for you, not necessarily what’s the most prestigious, what’s I really think like thinking about the people and a place that you can envision yourself long term. ⁓ that was

what really was I think key to me actually being happy, ⁓ and being able to withstand big law for for a decade, which is a a long time for a lot of people. So yeah. It’s a long time and it’s it’s fantastic that you you have done it. And I love that you did the internal work as well in terms of thinking about what what values are important to you, the culture that you’re looking for. So ultimately the career decisions you made you were happy with in line with actually putting in the work and ensuring that was

really in line with what was important to you. So I appreciate you sharing that. you’ve touched on obviously being a corporate attorney over at Pillsbury. Tell us a bit more about the areas you specialized in there and a bit more about your time there. So yeah, I started ⁓ as a baby attorney, which is it’s hilarious because you know nothing. Like you know nothing except for to work hard, which is, you know, a good skill set. Always it’s you know helps in any profession. Yeah, for sure. So yeah, so I I

has slotted into the corporate group. That was the group like one thing that I think was key to for the internship and why I picked Pillsbury to go. ⁓ one of the reasons I picked to go there for as ⁓ intern, a summer associate, was because they did let you kind of check, you know, check out a bunch of the different practice areas. So I did a little bit of litigation, a little real estate, a little, you know, a little this and that. And so ⁓

So just being able to identify like, ⁓ like the kind of work that actually fits. ⁓ so that was really good. And so when I started at Hillsbury, I’d already identified the kind of the people that I really liked working with. ⁓ and so I just kind of slotted into their practice and they, you know, introduced me to the startup world. ⁓ and when you’re doing, you know, representing startups, you end up, you know, representing them through their whole life cycle. So you might be, you know.

forming the company, serving as the the incorporator of the company. And then you know five years later you’re getting to help with you know hopefully a great exit for them. So you get to see a lot. ⁓ and that’s that was primarily the c work I did. And then I also coupled with that representing venture funds in their financings in startups. So being able to be on kind of both sides of those transactions was very helpful to be able to advise startups on hey, like

The investor really doesn’t like when you do X, Y, and Z because I know because I represent them as well. So yeah, it’s it was it was great practice. Pillsbury ⁓ had a great set of attorneys that were really believed in mentoring ⁓ and investing in their associates. So it was it was great. Yeah, absolutely. And you you built on that and you were, you probably one of the biggest compliments of all was a client tap you on the shoulder and says, Hey, come and join us. So as you mentioned, sort of 2020, you became Menlo General Counsel. So after years of advising the firm externally.

What did you see from the outside which prompted you to join on the inside? well, venture funds, they’re they’re fun clients, but you do get to see you know, there are some characters. I you know, Menelo wasn’t my only client that was a venture firm, but there are some, you know, there’s some characters in venture firms. there could be some videos, ⁓ and ⁓ you know, just

personalities that are good to work with from afar but not necessarily go all in on. ⁓ but Menlo had a great ⁓ set of people that I I loved working with them. super smart, ⁓ just good people, ⁓ curious, respectful, I mean just all the things that you you want to have in your in a colleague. ⁓ and the work was you know, the c the companies they’re investing in are so exciting. So it was very appealing. I think

that my one wish was that maybe the timing had been a little bit later. It would have been nice to have actually been a partner at a law firm for a couple of years, but it just didn’t work out that way. So I just gotta go when you when you get the opportunity, just go for it. So I did. I think that’s a really good advice because I I own a legal recruiting company over here in the UK and a lot of people say I I just need to wait another year on on this or I just need to wait for this. And actually sometimes when the opportunity’s there

Go for it. You know, sometimes it may not come on come around asking twice. So I I love that advice. And obviously I don’t know you would have worked tremendously hard to get up to partner and wanted that, but actually maybe a bigger another door kind of opens itself and presents it to you. And as a result of that, it’s been hugely successful for you. Okay, staying with Menlo then talk us through generally the type of work you do, a bit of a day in life as a general counsel there. ⁓ well, the legal team of one. So I’m a general counsel one. Me, myself, and I.

I do a really good job of bossing myself around. ⁓ but no, so I ⁓ it can be anything, but like my primary job, like the kind of the things that I’m like, you know, I make my daily list and you know, the the top of the list is always the deals, you know, the companies that we’re investing in.

⁓ so making sure that, you know, if we if it’s a large deal that we’re leading, which is often the case, ⁓ I usually engage outside council. I’m so grateful for them because I help, you know, just represent our firm well. ⁓ and I, you know, oversee that ⁓ you know, those those teams from our outside council. But the deals making sure, you know, we’re doing those investments properly, then often we’re doing, you know, there might be some fundraising component. ⁓

It seems like people are in the market more and more often. ⁓ so that’s also part of my ⁓ my job description is, you know, helping with that. ⁓ and then also ⁓ you know, there could be an HR thing, there could be a compliance matter, there could be, you know, we might get a subpoena. So there’s all sorts of things that pop up. But I would say, you know, my my my majority of my work is thinking about our deals and then also our ⁓ our fundraising.

A question for you, could you raise a good point about the team of one? And I assume with that you have to be able to handle a lot of different things as you’re out describing there. ⁓ what advice would you give to other people that might be thinking about taking that entrepreneurial pursuit of going in-house? How do you prioritize your day? What are some of the top things you’ve learned or key things you need to be thinking about in terms of running a ⁓ basically a legal team by yourself? ⁓ I think

It’s very important, and I’d say this is probably, you know, true in any instance, but I think especially in my situation, because I was the first legal hire that you know Menlo has been around since the nineteen seventies. we’re coming up on our fiftieth anniversary ⁓ of the firm and I was the first person they hired to fill this function. So just building trust, you know, I put relationships first, ⁓ making sure that, you know, I’m spending FaceTime with people that I’m doing

as much educating when I started. ⁓ that was a big priority for me was to, you know, meet with each of the investors, meet with junior people, do like teach-ins, just so people understood ⁓ who I am, like who I like my values also and like what I care about. And hopefully that they’ll they would trust my judgment ⁓ and just by exposure to me. ⁓ so that that’s kind of always forefront I’m thinking about like relationship building. ⁓

And then ⁓ and that comes across through, you know, making sure I’m addressing the things that people care about. So I’m always I always like my kind of motto is first things first. Like what what is the what is the first thing, like what is the thing that has to be done that’s going to unleash everybody else to be able to be as successful as they can be? Or I don’t want to be the holdup. ⁓ so that’s kind of how I organize my my day, my month. ⁓ I have

monthly to-do lists, I have weekly to do lists, and I have daily to-do lists. And that’s how I kind of think about it. It’s like what are the things that I need to do so that everyone else in the organization can do their job better. ⁓ so that’s yeah. And that’s the key because you’re a key business partner, aren’t you? Collaborator, and the work that you do is allowing everyone to get on and do what they want to do, right? And need to be doing. So I think that’s a really great example. I mean many lawyers, you know, have been well known to go from big law into in-house. That isn’t necessarily very new

⁓ at all. But few step into the venture capital world at a very top tier firm. So you alluded to the fact that obviously you you were working with Menlo and they they sort of tapped you on the shoulder. Is there anything specifically that has kind of kept you most excited and wanting to stay building a career within the the VC space specifically? I I can’t imagine a better like living so I live in the Bay Area. I mean it is so fun and so exciting ⁓ to be seen ⁓ involved in

know, companies that are doing, you know, just on the cutting edge of AI and technology and ⁓ it is yeah, it’s it’s very fulfilling. ⁓ and I really our LPs, our limited partners in our fund, ⁓ I I really appreciate that they give us ⁓ their backing and that makes it very meaningful too, just knowing that we’re representing them and their interests. ⁓ and yeah, it’s it’s a great job. It’s good.

And I can see the passion and the excitement you get from it as well. And you know, richly deserved, twenty twenty six has already been a good year for you because in January, ⁓ Menlo Ventures announced your promotion to partner and the firm shared at Menlo, Deborah has never operated just the general council. From day one, she’s been a strategic partner across every dimension of our business. How’s it made you feel hearing that? And what projects can you share with us since then have you been working on as a partner and anything that might have been different that might be helpful our listeners to to know?

Yeah, it was it was a huge honor. and it definitely made me realize I like I am accomplishing my goal of being, you know, someone that’s trusted, ⁓ someone that ⁓ is hopefully always additive ⁓ to the organization. So ⁓ yeah, it was it was it was a great honor. as far as projects that are new, I mean it’s pr pretty recent and ⁓ I’m just you know continuing to do to plow ahead with all the works that

I’ve I’ve been doing I feel like it was more of ⁓ as kind of a recognition of where the firm already felt like I was. So there really wasn’t a a real need to change what I was doing or anything if the firm is like, hey, like Deborah is functioning as one of our partners and we need to recognize that, which is I feel like the best way. ⁓ because it just means I’m I don’t need to worry about if I can do the job ’cause I’ve been doing the job. So it’s it’s it’s a good place to be.

And and that’s a good point, isn’t it? Because you always say you be operating at the level before you get the level, you know, and and you obviously were, and as a result of that, you’re recognized, and you know, rightly so, you’ve had all the the plaudits that go with it. So congratulations again. ⁓ you can’t go on a podcast these days, sticking in the legal world, and not talk about AI. So as AI is continuing to accelerate deal velocity and obviously fund structures, and they’re becoming more complex, where do you see the biggest gaps between

traditional venture capital models and the regulatory reliability firms are actually facing right now. Any thoughts? At least in the United States, I don’t feel like there’s a lot. I think people feel very confident being able to invest in AI. ⁓ I don’t think that there’s too much that is on the horizon that we have to be too worried about. I think that the the limits, I don’t think that that will, you know, greatly shift any any regulatory changes or policy changes. I don’t think that will greatly shift ⁓

kind of the emphasis of our investment. ⁓ we’re investors in Anthropic, which is an outstanding company. They have Claude as ⁓ their version of Chat GPT, a lot of consumers are more familiar with, but enterprise companies are very familiar with Claude because it’s very reliable. ⁓ is ⁓ and that you know I think taking that ⁓ just as a great ⁓ you know

anchoring investment in AI and the AI landscape. And then we have amazing investors who have a lot of technical experience and understanding that do a lot of infrastructure AI sort of ⁓ investments. I you know, I think that can only support and bolster ⁓ our just ecosystem and our investments in AI. Yeah, no, and it’s it’s an exciting time for people who want to

To lean in. I mean, you’re you’re you’re wonderful strategic advisor and have been across every dimension of the firm, you know, including portfolio investments, fund formation, regulatory strategy. You touched on LP relationships as well. We’ve got listeners from all broad stretch rooms and also people aspiring to get into the profession. Would you mind just telling us a little bit for those who may be less familiar about some of those areas, a bit more about what they are and how you’ve advised on them? Yeah, so ⁓ well compliance is like a a big is kind of an unusual one, I think, for legal to

To necessarily have to because usually you have a whole compliance department, you know, in larger companies, but if you’re you’re a legal ⁓ I do have a partner in crime in our compliance team who’s a our CFO and she’s outstanding and she’s been at the firm for decades. but ⁓ that that piece was very different from kind of the legal, you know, advisory role that I’m I was used to playing. ⁓

as outside counsel because outside counsel you’re always you’re kind of like okay like this is what I think you should do risk reward like how do you figure this out but when you’re in house and it’s a compliance thing where it’s like black and white ⁓ that’s very different ⁓ you’re like no that is not a lot ⁓ so kind of shifting and taking that role on ⁓ it’s a little bit different than you know there’s you know HR things that you know it’s it’s a little different when you’re in

in-house and you know people and you have to, you know, you’re developing relationships with people and you have to ⁓ you know have those relationships and also be able to advise on kind of complex HR issues. ⁓ so that’s that’s also pretty different when you’re in-house. ⁓ but yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. And you know, it’s it’s clear that you can wear many hats. And one thing I’m curious to know is how you balance being a strategic advisor to to founders.

Whilst balancing the firm’s long term interests? Well, it’s at Menlo, I really don’t advise any of the founders because I only have one client and that’s Menlo. But I do for our investment team, ⁓ they’re you know, they’re working closely with founders. They sit on the board of a lot of these companies and ⁓ so they all, you know, have questions about like how do we handle this? And you know, just making sure that they’re educating, they understand, like, you know.

the legal issues that might be facing their companies that they’re advising as board members. So I do it kind of indirectly through my ⁓ advice that I provide to our and education that I provide to our investors. ⁓ and, you know, it’s always my, you know, my hat is always in like what is best for Menlo. ⁓ but

That often overlaps nicely with what’s best for our portfolio companies. And so I don’t feel like there’s a tension there that that often. Today’s Legally Speaking podcast episode is proudly sponsored by Cleo. If your legal management software feels more frustrating than helpful, you’re not alone. Many solicitors across the UK delay switching because moving client and case data sounds like a headache. Cleo makes it simple.

As the intelligent legal work platform, Clio combines context-aware AI with trusted legal research to power your practice. And when you switch, their dedicated migrations team supports you every step of the way, ensuring a smooth transfer of your data. You’ll also get award-winning support 24-5 via live chat, phone, and email. So help is always there when you need it. Ready to leave frustration behind?

Visit Clio.com forward slash UK to learn more and discover why so many UK solicitors choose Clio. Now back to the show. Misconceptions now. What are some of the common misconceptions about how venture funds are structured and anything behind the scenes that you might be able to share misconceptions generally? ⁓ I think a lot of people don’t realize that, you know, where our capital comes from, you know, that we have limited partners ourselves, ⁓ investors ourselves.

I think a lot of people just kind of think it’s like a bunch of like wealthy people doing investments, which ⁓ it’s really, you know, we we have pensions that are ⁓ that are limited partners, we have ⁓ you know, insurance companies, we have, you know, a variety of different kind of ⁓ limited partners. I think that that is kind of an important thing for people to to understand about venture because it’s not just kind of a bunch of like

wealthy people investing in in companies. It’s ⁓ it’s actually we are an or a firm that has investors ourselves and those investors can, you know, be a variety of ⁓ have a variety of pools of capital themselves. and and we’re representing their interests. ⁓ and I think, you know, that’s kind of an interesting tweet like tweak. I think people don’t always view venture in that way.

Yeah, no, and it’s a great point. And and you’re right. People probably do think you know, just of the few, but actually, like you say, with pension funds and people, you know, and everything that you’ve got going on there, you are getting all these sources of capital from various different places as a result of it. Risk now, we have to talk about that. How do you define risk in the context of a venture firm? And how has this definition evolved during your time, if at all, at Menlo? I think Yeah, I we always

Well we are we’re an exempt reporting so in the US you have advisors, investment advisors, that are subject to the investment advisors act and the SEC oversees that. And you can be an exempt reporting advisor or you can be a registered reporting advisor and to fit in the exemption, ⁓ you have to have you know certain you only do certain kinds of investments and there’s some limits on what you can do as a as a firm.

And we’re exempt. ⁓ and but that doesn’t mean that we aren’t still kind of subject to a bunch of laws that apply to investment advisors. And I think you know that to me is, you know, you know, paramount, making sure that we’re in compliance with all those laws and that we’re conducting our business in the appropriate way. ⁓ and any other laws that touch on our our firm. that’s you know, that that’s key. And then you know when we’re investing in companies.

being able, you it’s it’s just me, just Deborah as the legal team here, but I have great out outside counsel that I utilize to help diligence the companies and, you know, making sure we’re running really good processes on the diligence front. I think that’s another real real risky area. If we’re not running good dil diligence, then we could have companies that have all sorts of issues that ⁓ we could be blindsided by and that that would be really bad. It would be. It would be. I want to ask a few career and practical questions now because

As you say, you’ve got a tremendous role, but it’s undoubtedly, you know, very busy. How do you manage your time? How do you any hacks around time management, prioritization as a general counsel that you think would be helpful for people to know? Yeah. I I do. I’m I live and die by like old school and I will show you. Like Are we gonna get a to do list here? Yeah, okay.

We are seeing pen and paper, folks, for those not watching the video written down. Whatever. Yes, they still exist. So and I use two different colored pens. You know, I have very into my my to-do list. So I write a a daily to do list that I actually something I don’t know, probably like I don’t know, ten years ago, I started actually assigning time slots to it because I would find that my to do list was just

I could not get through it and it helped me prioritize. Okay, what is the things that I need to get done first, second, third, and just, you know, being very disciplined about that. ⁓ now I do not I still don’t get through my to do list, but at least I know I I when I s look at it in the day, I think at the beginning of the day I could. ⁓ so I’m just very purposeful about that. and then also having a monthly like these are the things I have to get done this month, and these are the longer term projects. So just being very ⁓

very clear ’cause I think otherwise I you can just kind of stab in the dark about what you should or shouldn’t be doing or you’re not very purposeful during the day. So to me it’s very important to be purposeful. Like everything you do, like think about like is this the the thing I should be doing first? Is this the thing that I should be doing during that time? So yeah, it’s a I’m I’m a a slave to my to do list. I feel like out of sorts until I have it written for the day. I’m like, what am I doing? But yeah.

But I think it’s great, isn’t it? So then you can be organized. You can also for s for self satisfaction as well, taking things off your list and and and generally, you know, those those things make you feel good. And so little things during the day that actually probably give you that bit of a yeah, okay, this is good. I’ve got that done. I’ve done this now, this is happening, okay, I need to go and do that. It just gives you that purpose and like you say, you can get more things done. Are there any like favorite hacks you’ve heard from any of your guests that you’d like to share with me? Is there anyone? I think

You know, the time chunking and time blocking is very important, and then also people learning the difference between important and urgent, and how you know the graph there in terms of what’s urgent versus what’s important and understanding how to prioritize and categorization for that so you don’t get lost in things that might be important, but there’s actually urgent things that are you know need doing now that are of prioritization. So I think the time chunking and the prioritization and understanding how to to sort of scale and weigh tasks up so you deliver on what’s needed in the moment. ⁓ those are some of the things that I’ve learned from.

From parts past guests that they’re able to able to do and delegation as well in terms of things that they shouldn’t be doing. They should be delegating out to save the time through other teams or looking at outsourcing or internally. I think those are the sort of three smart things that I’ve seen. But I want to talk about you again and challenges. As I said, we were talking about the the good things so far and every successful career. I’m yet to meet someone who hasn’t had to come across a few challenges along the way. So and we always you know encourage people to be authentic as as as they can.

What have been some of the greatest challenges throughout your legal career? Maybe it’s been when you’re in law firms, thinking about career moves, settling into rook jobs, and how you’ve been able to get over them. Give us some of the sort of, you the the harder moments and wh where you’ve been able to sort of break through them and and keep going. I’d say just kind of the massive workload you have at a at a big law firm. And so I started a fan. My husband and I have two kids, and while I was at Big Law, I had my two kids.

it was know, it’s a very supportive firm, but I’m, you know, a very I believe in going all in on what you’re doing. So it wasn’t like I wanted to hit the hit the gas, or hit my I did want to hit the gas. I didn’t want to hit the the the brakes. so just you know, trying to figure out how to still be present for my family and my kids ⁓ and still do a really good job at at at my work and my professional life. That was that’s very hard. ⁓ and I have a great partner. He’s

Outstanding. and I you know, I think that’s the most important decision of your life for sure. and ⁓ I think ⁓ just being able to go through that together and problem solve it together ⁓ is was important. I think that was, you know, just figuring that out. And part of me going to Menlo was also, you know, searching and hoping that I would have a little bit better of a work-life balance, and that was part of what was attractive.

about going to Menlo. ⁓ and it has been. It’s definitely a a better work life balance. ⁓ and then I think, you know, professionally at a law firm it can be a little bit cutthroat ⁓ with, you know, with having your book of business and developing your book of business and who gets to claim the book of business. ⁓ and in that I, you know, I had some people that were, you know, I think trying to take some of my the credit for the

business I would bring in. ⁓ and luckily I had, you know, really strong relationships with other people that could support me. So ⁓ in that and trying to have having those very difficult discussions and negotiations with people, just making sure that you have developed enough relationships with people that are, you know, more senior so that they can support you through some of those hard, hard conversations, hard negotiations.

that was really important. So always kind of people first going into situations and dealing with it on a human level is is really important. ⁓ if I just kind of put my head down and just worked and not work to develop relationships, I don’t think I would have been able to make it through, you know, my personal difficulties with, you know, work-life balance, because that’s my husband really helped. And then in the situations with the firms, if I hadn’t had people that were senior to me that were really invested in me and I was invested in them, I don’t think I would have been able to.

negotiate and navigate those tricky situations. And that’s a really good point. And we talk a lot about the importance of of sort of networking and relationship building on the the show. And that there’s a great example to right because that human capital, those relationships that you built up when you do have those tricky moments or when you are probably going into quite heated discussions or those differences of opinion, the relationship capital you’ve built up with these people can really help you and actually

Just in terms of mentoring you through it or support you if needed in terms of you know strength in numbers. So I think it’s a really good point. And always advise people, whatever you’re doing in your day, try and make sure that you’re sprinking value on existing relationships and trying to find form new ones. Maybe if it’s a new point of contact or get a three sixty board of mentors, people in and around you that can support you, help you, champion you, all of that good stuff. So thank you for sharing that. I think it’s a really important point. And thank you for being open with us. Okay, key skills now. What are the key skills that you have kept from your time in private practice that have

also complimented you as a general counsel. And is there an any additional skills since moving in house you think have really helped you operate at the levels you are today? I mean, I think not taking myself too seriously. I think there are there are a lot of attorneys. They really are they do take themselves very serious. They take the law very seriously, which I do, you know, but it isn’t but I think there are people that kind of have this like high view of the law, you know, just

being able to you know, this is the legality of it. And you know, just being having like understanding, okay, like my job is to understand that, advise, figure out like a you know the best path forward. How you know, just not thinking, you know, not kind of holding that over people’s heads. There’s I think there’s sometimes some attorneys that also get a little joy out of being like

I’m the like the person that can tell you yes or no. And ⁓ that’s you know, I don’t feel like that’s productive. ⁓ I don’t feel like you necessarily get to the right answers there either. ⁓ so ⁓ I think that that is has served me well, you know, in in my role. is just, you know, understanding, you know, I can’t I I I have have an important job just like everybody else and ⁓ I need to understand what my like what my sweet spot is and not think that, you know, I I mean

No, I need to take myself too seriously too much. I I think that’s a really important point. I think at the end of the day, we’re all human, aren’t we? And I think, you know, there is your credentials and skills, your credentials and skills, but at the same time, maybe just not taking yourself quite so seriously at every moment at every opportunity, you can connect with people better. And yeah, I just I just like that. So thank you for for for sharing it. Okay, let’s switch back now to to venture capital before we let you you go. What developments can we expect to see in the coming years regarding venture capital?

Or for folks who may be less familiar in this space, in your opinion? I wish I knew. That’d help with my planning. But I mean I think it is. And the tenure. Exactly. It is kind of remarkable how just the velocity of the deal flow, how just how ⁓ it’s funny because it’s you know AI has definitely

know, taken, you know, it it’s starting to replace some of what, you know, people have been traditionally doing in their jobs. but at the same time it has really made people really important too, because, you know, just the talent that develops the AI, the people that have good judgment to be able to make decisions that you use AI for. So it’s I it’s important it’s kind of this crazy dichotomy where you have AI that’s, you know, supplementing some jobs, but it makes other jobs, other human jobs very

like even more important. So as we’re investing, we see that as, you know, the talent at the companies become even more important because the the you know, the jobs that don’t require that much talent, you probably actually are the jobs that aren’t that much fun, they could be taken over by AI. ⁓ and then the jobs that are really important that require really good judgment, that require really, you know, creative thinking and ⁓ all that that that becomes even more important in the people that are, you know

Filling those roles are are important. ⁓ and so just the way that we evaluate ⁓ you know, investments, I think it’s become, you know, it’s a little bit different ⁓ than what it used to be in that regard. ⁓ not that talent wasn’t always important, but it it really is. You’re like looking at, you know, your team in a different way. ⁓ and it’s important to make sure that the team that ⁓ you’re investing in at the

at the company that they’re gonna they’re in it for the long haul, that they are, you know, because other people are looking at them too and, you know, they might want to steal some of that talent. So just thinking about those kinds of ⁓ those risks when you’re investing is something that’s kind that’s changed.

Yeah, absolutely. And I I appreciate you you sharing that that with us and I’m sure there’ll be be lots of change over time in the worlds that we we live. before I let you go, a couple of pieces of advice. Firstly, what’s the best piece of careers advice you’ve ever received? I mean, it’s more just a principle of just you know, work your ass off. Like I do I do believe that, you know, there’s a lot of smart people in the world. There’s a lot of you know, there there’s a lot of talent in the world but you can

really if you work hard, ⁓ you can couple that with just a great work ethic, ⁓ then it’s it will it’ll serve you well. So well there we go. It’s kind of leads to what I was gonna say would be your your last piece of advice for any aspiring lawyers who want to move into venture capital specifically. ⁓ yeah, I think it’s one where you are well served to be at a law firm first because you just get to see the volume of deals that you see. And there’s, you know, it’s

you you have to be able to see a huge volume of deals to be able to understand all the like contours and what you need to be worried about. So being at a law firm that does a lot of that kind of deal work is I think very useful. and ⁓ that would be, you know, and finding a a firm if you’re gonna be at a firm that’s doing that kind of work where there’s, you know, people that are actually invested in ⁓ their associates and training them up. So that would be my advice.

Thank you. And it’s been a a wonderful conversation learning more about your your career, your background, and obviously all the successes and challenges you you you’ve had. And I’m sure you would have inspired a lot of our listeners and watchers around the world. And if we want to learn more about you, your career, or potentially Menlo, where can they go to find out more? Feel free to share any social media handles or any websites. We’ll also share them with this episode for you too. Yeah. ⁓

menloventures.com. That’s that’s where all about my firm. There we go. As simple as that. Listen, it’s been an absolute blast, Deborah, once again, having you on the show. So from all of us on the Legally Speaking podcast, sponsored by Cleo, wishing you lots of continued success with your career and future pursuits. But for now, from all of us, over an L. Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. If you like the content here, why not check out our world leading content and collaboration of the Legally Speaking Club over on Discord?

Go to our website, www.legallyspeakingpodcast.com. There’s a link to join our community there. Over and out.