On today’s Legally Speaking Podcast, I am delighted to be joined by Neil Heaney.

Neil is the CEO and founder of Judicare Law International, a specialist UK law firm focused on international legal matters. He founded the business after being frustrated by the quality of legal advice he received when he himself purchased property abroad. Today, Judicare handles matters across Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East. Before building Judicare, Neil was also a professional footballer, coming through Arsenal and later playing in the Premier League for Southampton. This is a conversation about more than law. It is about what happens when someone experiences the legal system from the client side, feels let down, and decides to build something better.

We get into cross-border legal risk, trust, access to the right expertise, and how to look after clients when their legal problem is happening somewhere far from home.

So why should you be listening in? 

You can hear Rob and Neil discussing:

– Football Lessons Shaping Business Leadership

– How a Legal Nightmare Inspired the Creation of a Global Law Firm

– Protecting Overseas Property Buyers Worldwide

– Trust Through Reassurance and Expertise

– Education Preventing Costly Cross-Border Mistakes.

Connect with Neil Heaney here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/williamtreidiv

Transcript

You can never understand what a client’s feeling before they make that first call to you. We’re always alive to the fact that people are coming to us with a problem. We need to be that reassuring voice. We’re not going to solve their case in that first call. But what we can do is give them sufficient reassurance that we are the people that can handle things for them. We see that happen so many times where the clients have gone abroad.

Paul into the trap, they’re going to see a house, the real estate agent is put pressure on them to sign a deposit there and then. They think it’s a reservation agreement, it’s actually a full purchase contract which binds them. So education is a big thing for us in terms of trying to get to clients before they get on a plane or before they sign any sort of document in any jurisdiction. On today’s legally speaking podcast, I’m delighted to be joined by Neil Heaney.

Neil is the CEO and founder of Judicare Law International, a specialist UK firm focused on international legal matters. He founded the business after being frustrated by the quality of legal advice he received when he himself purchased the property abroad. Today, Judicare handles matters across Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. Before building Judicare, Neil was also a professional footballer, coming through Arsenal and later playing in the Premier League for Southampton. This is a conversation about.

More than law. It’s about what happens when someone experiences the legal system from the client’s side, feels let down, and decides to build something better. We get into cross border legal risk, trust, access, the right to expertise, and how to look after clients when their legal problem is happening somewhere far from home. So let’s get into it. So a very big warm welcome to the show, Neil. Thank you very much. Pleased to be here.

it’s absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Very excited about today’s discussion. But before we dive in, we always always like to start with something a little bit light on the show. So, firstly, what’s your favorite beverage and what’s your preferred choice of footwear on a typical work day? Ooh, I probably drink too much coffee. Other than that, it would probably be a pint of Guinness. shoes. It would probably if it didn’t have any meetings, it would probably be a pair of training shoes.

There we go. Good stuff. And that leads nicely on to perhaps you had different shoes when we talk about your background. So would you tell us a bit about your background career journey from professional football into building a very successful international law firm? Yeah, so born and raised in Middlesbrough in the northeast of England. grew up there, family is still there. I I as most children do, I had a a dream of playing football. I was very fortunate growing up playing in all the local sides and the regional sides.

and I was scouted by Arsenal when I was about twelve, thirteen years old, which led me on a a long career journey of of being a professional footballer. So I signed for Arsenal at the age of thirteen, went down there every holiday for school holidays and half terms, and then I was fortunate to be taken on on the old YTS scheme, which many may remember but probably a lot won’t. then I was

Fortunate of again to to get a professional contract and then to eventually get through and play in the first team. and that led me on to to a career of just over a decade for quite a few clubs professionally. so it was it was a a heck of a ride, I have to say. Absolutely. And that’s why we’re so excited to have today’s discussion. Such a

An interesting and different background into to law, and that’s where I want to to stay really, because looking back at that sort of career in elite sport that obviously, you know, what prepared you best for business leadership and dealing with pressure? Tell us what from your football backgrounds helped you in your professional life. Well, I think anybody who’s played professional sport to an elite level or to to any level really will understand the concept of of pressure. Yeah. And I think there’s for me, there’s or my experiences is

There’s two types of pressure. There’s internal pressure, which is how you address how you’re gonna react, to be able to be the best you can be every day. The the the pressures that you put on yourself really. so those are the internal pressures which I think in the main you can control. Yeah. And then there’s the external pressures, which is everything else, which is the fans

The media, your own teammates, how they demand things of you, which of course is a little bit more difficult to control. so the the the two types of pressures really, and I think anyone who’s been in a team environment, they will understand those pressures, or maybe not even in a team environment, but we all feel those internal and external pressures. and I think

the control issue is I mean the concept of pressures it’s you know, it’s subjective anyway. I think the pressures that you put on yourself are the ones really that that you can control. So I think it’s important to focus on those ones rather than external pressures and the noise that comes from from outside. When I was playing I I was very fortunate to play under some fantastic leaders, and some fantastic teams.

And I think once you’ve been part of that, you understand what it means to be within a team or to lead a team. so the background in in football and being in those dressing rooms, under this perceived pressure of needing to win a game or, you know, a playoff final at Wembley or a a cup final. so being within that team environment, it’s it it stood me in really good stead, I think, for for for where

gone to afterwards. Yeah, and that’s been hugely successful as as well. I guess sticking to life just before law, because before you owned your own law firm, you’re obviously a client of various law firms. So what was that experience like from a client side and what feelings do you most remember having at that time? Out with the setting up of the law firm and the circumstances surrounding that when I was playing football I didn’t really as most people, I didn’t really have the need for any interaction with

law firms or lawyers. Up and there was a few examples when there was contractual negotiations or when I was being transferred to one club to another. Obviously there were lawyers involved. My my overriding memory of of lawyers and law firms at that time was was incredibly positive, as it remains today. I always had the impression that the lawyers that were working for me were doing exactly that.

They had my best interests at heart. so overall, my experiences of the profession of law firms and lawyers was always a positive one, I have to say. And then there was a personal turning point because you, I believe, had a particular need for specialist legal help when you and some of your footballing colleagues fell victim to problems around overseas property investments. Was it easy at that time to find the right lawyer? And what did that experience teach you about how exposed clients?

Can feel particularly in those sort of cross-border matters? Yeah, I mean, unfortunately at the end of my playing career, I and many, many others, hundreds of sports stars started to be offered the opportunity to invest in overseas properties, largely off-cloud. unfortunately in my situation, my and mine and others, we were caught up in a large-scale fraud in the Costa del Sol.

Which was for us to put deposits down on the properties that were not built at that point, so off plan as they were called. unfortunately they they never materialized and the individuals disappeared. so at that point, this is probably twenty five years ago, i it wasn’t so easy or as it is today to go on the search engines and they’ll give you ten.

Then they’ll give you the background to those firms and what they’ve done, etc. It was very different then. One of huge frustration that there wasn’t really any single solution in the UK at that point that I could find that could handle cases of this nature, cross-border criminal cases in the high courts in in Spain. so it was very, very frustrating. And obviously that led to the genesis of of Judicare and

and how it actually came to be because I effectively had to go and find I had to jump on a plane and go and find some law firms in and around the Costa del Sol at that time and interview them find out what they what they could do for us and whether or not they could handle these cases and then liaise with the group of clients that I was representing I say representing I was effectively a spokesperson really. And so

Very, very frustrating, Rob and very different to to to what it it is today. But even the calls that we get from clients today, where they’ve experienced similar things, the overriding thing is frustration.

Yeah, and and and obviously, you know, it’s it’s interesting, isn’t it? Because certain people sit with frustration and and perhaps just sit with that. Whereas it sounds like you obviously had that entrepreneurial side of you as well, that you know, not just having that frustration, but you went beyond just being frustrated and complaining to actually finding a solution and actually building a business and solving a problem for others. So you sense there was demand. So would would you sort of classify yourself as a natural born

entrepreneur or was it just such frustration that you thought this needed to happen and and tell us a little bit about that story of launching your firm and what your firm’s called. Yeah so I think it was frustration. I think at that point as well one of the overriding factors that I was experiencing was was guilt in that I’d been caught in this this scam, this fraud and I hadn’t done what I should have done in terms of due diligence and looked into it too much. I just took it at face value.

There were some incredibly high profile sports stars on the front of the brochure. And I really took the view that if they were on the front of the brochure, surely their representatives would have done the due diligence for us. And therefore it was it was a green line for us to proceed. So frustration at at not doing the due diligence, and that’s something that that we profess every day to to clients here who are looking to invest abroad.

but yeah I I think as well at that point there was the money that was lost as well, it was a significant amount of money that was lost for myself and and the rest of the group. So I think a bit of belligerence rather than than entrepreneur spirit, that I I wasn’t gonna let it go. and I think I wanted a bit of justice and I know sometimes Rob that’s a lofty statement and a lofty ambition, but that’s how we all felt.

When we couldn’t get that from anything in the UK, it meant that that we had to to go a different route and as I say, that then became the genesis of Judicare, which w has been in existence for around about as an entity it’s been in existence for around about nineteen years. but more re not more recently, ten years ago, we decided to make the jump to be a regulated firm.

here in UK because I just wanted to to build something more substantial and something that people could firmly rely on. and and I think that that we’ve we’ve been fairly successful in doing that. Absolutely hugely successful and I think one thing that we’re very aligned on as a core pillar of the show and indeed Clio who sponsor our show is is is access to justice. So you know your point there is absolutely

you know, something we we we fully support. And again, for for listeners learning for the first time or watchers learning about Judy Care, how would you say in in a sentence or two what it is that you do, who you help and where you add the most value? We’re rather unique in that we are a an SRA regulated firm, but we don’t undertake any UK work. All of the instructions that we take are of an international nature. And typically Rob, it’s UK clients who have

wanted to buy an overseas property maybe as a second home or as a lifestyle change to move the family there. So we assist those clients in doing the due diligence. So when they find somewhere or even before that, we try and educate them on things they should be thinking about, questions to ask, documents to receive before they pay any money to to anybody. So it’s it’s the before

and and we presently are active in fifteen ju different jurisdictions. largely it’s the k the jurisdictions where British clients have tended to want to invest Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, Greece, Italy, Dubai these days. there’s some more exotic ones like Barbados and Cape Verde and Dominican Republic, but it’s usually the the the the normal jurisdictions.

So that’s the before work as I tend to call it. and then we do the after work, which is where perhaps they’ve already invested and it and it hasn’t gone wrong or something’s not as it should be. So they instruct us then to try and unpick things and maybe try and recover a deposit, or if they’ve entered into a a lending agreement with a foreign bank.

And that foreign bank have not given them the necessary information to make an informed decision and they found themselves in financial trouble. We will then negotiate or litigate against those foreign banks in order to try and release those clients from the obligations. so it’s a it’s a bit of a before and a bit of an after. And everything that flows from that really, Rob. So inheritances, foreign probates, wills, so it’s

It’s a really interesting daily job. The inquiries as you can imagine, they can be extremely varied. So no no day is typically the same. No, absolutely not. And and so with that, you know, you’re you’re super busy, you know, business owner, surely and you’ve lifted all the different jurisdictions there and things that could be happening, surely you can’t know every case the firm has taken on and how those matters are progressing. So how do you stay close enough

To the work to ensure that the standards do remain high and indeed your clients still feel genuinely looked after and not just a number? Yeah, I mean i it’s a challenge, of course. when we’re in when we’re in so many jurisdictions. but I think that’s part of why clients come to us and trust us. I I hope, and certainly all the feedback we get are get across the review platforms. the one thing that always stands out is that clients say that.

they feel listened to. they feel that we have a genuine interest in the services we provide to them. and that, you know, they get the overriding feeling that we’re all in this together. Which is great for us and that’s fantastic feedback. in terms of how do we manage it, obviously we have lots of systems in the office to to be able to to to manage that. that’s partly my job and partly everyone else in the team, but

the lawyers that we choose in the jurisdictions and law firms that we work with, they’re incredibly diligent. so of course it’s effectively two pairs of eyes watching everything. So if for instance we might miss something, the foreign firm usually picked that up and vice versa. So we find that that it that it works quite well and we’re able to do so. Wanna go a bit deeper on that, ’cause that sounds very sort of

purpose at scale given the the breadth of what you’re doing and you’ve obviously spoken about being super passionate and purpose driven when it comes to actually looking after your clients, in particular given what you went through and indeed so many other high profile sports people. So how do you actually make that real when you’re working through those lawyers and law firms around the world, rather than always handling things directly, do you have a sort of diligence process you go through in terms of electing the types of lawyers and people you collaborate with? Yeah, we do I mean it’s it it’s incredibly important.

that we select the right law firms in foreign jurisdictions to work with. Yeah. Because I think clients in the UK, when they come to us and instruct us, they see our foreign associate firms as an extension of us. So it’s incredibly important that we have the right people. And I think long before we decide on their legal capabilities, I think again I go back to being in a team environment.

Being in a team situation, I think over the years has sharpened up certainly my ability, I think, to engage with people on a personal level first. We need to make sure that these firms buy into exactly what we’re doing, the thoughts behind the company, our why effectively. so it it’s important, really important that they understand that and they buy into that. And to be fair.

all of the firms that we work with in the foreign jurisdictions, they they do really buy into that. And that’s so important because should the client need to speak to the foreign firm or the foreign lawyers need to just clarify a point with the client, it’s really important that, you know, they can speak great English and that the client feels that they are an extension of of duty care.

So that that’s that’s really important and it it’s it’s it’s critical effectively to the running of the firm. Yeah. What separates good legal partners from a from a risky one from any experiences you may have had over the years? Again, I think it it goes down to you you tend to get a a bit of a gut feeling about about people, I think, in general.

And and certainly when we’re interviewing firms

It it’s easy I think to understand or you take for granted that they can probably do the legal work. But what’s what sits behind that is what drives them. You know, is it the will to obtain justice, so to speak, or is it just to get billable hours? and I think over the years of interviewing firms, I’ve been able to get a bit of a a read on exactly

the type of firm and the type of lawyer and the type of ethos that that we need really. So it it is difficult. We get lots of enquiries from foreign firms who would like to to work with us. So the the diligence process it usually takes us about six months, Rob, if we’re taking on a new firm to understand them. I will then typically always fly and go and s meet them at their offices, spend a little bit of time with them. And I tend to get a bit of a feeling about

Who who would fit and work well. because in some instances we have to work across various jurisdictions. So even the law firms have to interact with each other. so they all have to be of a certain a certain standard, of course. but they all have to have a that really engaging personal traits as well, which again is is very important because they are an extension of us. Yeah, and I say it time and time again, rapport wins the war.

really, really important. And you know, with that then, having a really multi jurisdictional international business, what are some of the biggest differences and challenges when working with these international firms and indeed practitioners? Perhaps compared to dealing with UK lawyers? And I can imagine there’s some jurisdictions that it’s not necessarily just legal difference, but perhaps might be commercial, communication style differences, cultural. Tell us a bit about that. All of those. I think you have to be alive to

certainly cultural differences in some jurisdictions, even by their admissions. You know, the the the judicial system and the courts are not as robust or as quick in dealing with cases as as we’re used to in the UK. So cases can run on for ten, eleven, twelve years. And so it it’s cultural differences and are are really important to be alive to.

it’s not a criticism of of foreign firms, but I think a lot of overseas lawyers will take the view, Rob, that if nothing is happening on the case, w we don’t need to communicate with you. So it if nothing happens on the case, it might go years. That’s not good enough for UK clients. It’s not what they would expect. so it it’s working again, I go back to selection of the firms. It’s

Getting them to buy into a culture of listen, even if nothing is happening, just drop us a quick email, maybe jump on a call with the client, just to keep the reassurance factor with the clients. So those those are some of the the differences. Certainly the cultural aspects, religious as aspects as well, which we have to be alive to. You know, dealing with a managing partner in a firm in Cyprus is very different to dealing with a managing partner in a firm in the Middle East.

or in Morocco or in the Dominican Republic. So it’s being alive to that, being respectful to it. But again that comes with the time that you spend fostering these relationships with these foreign lawyers. that that that they buy into what we’re doing and therefore it’s a lot easier to to cross those issues and to to head them off possibly if they if they start to drop the standards. Which to be honest they don’t.

No, and that’s that’s pleasing to hear. And yeah, we we talk a lot about the importance of nurturing relationships over time to really get the best optimal output of them. And you were touching on obviously the expectations of UK clients because they’re often perhaps deeply nervous about foreign legal matters because everything feels a little bit unfamiliar, bit harder c to control, to understand. So how I know you mentioned about the contact, but how do you make sure things really do run smoothly? And just as importantly, how do you help them?

harm those worries that they may have. One of the most important things that that drives me and drives what we do here is is customer care. And what what’s that client journey like from the moment they touch the business? What’s the f the first call is so important. I suppose you only ever get the chance to make a first impression once. So make sure it’s a good one. So we’re always alive to the fact

that people are coming to us, notwithstanding people who are buying a nice house or a secondary home, people who are coming to us with a problem, we need to be that reassuring voice. We’re not going to solve their case in that first call, but what we can do is give them sufficient reassurance that we are the people that can handle things for them. We do know what we do and we have the experience. And in some instances, I suppose you don’t know what you don’t know. So it’s just giving them a little bit of an insight.

into what would happen should they instruct us and trying really to make the whole process not as scary as they’ve probably envisaged in their mind because when they pick up the telephone to us, I’m very sure that they’ve probably been thinking about that call for weeks, if not months. And worried about the call and the implications to them of what might happen to them. Are they at risk in the UK for all their property or their assets?

If they’ve been sued in a foreign jurisdiction. So the feedback that we tend to get across all of review platforms is just that people felt that we were reassuring and that actually, you know, we we could handle that issue for them. Today’s episode is brought to you by Clio. If you’re spending more time managing your practice than practicing law, it’s time for a change. Clio is the intelligent legal work platform built for modern solicitors.

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Visit Clio.com forward slash UK to find out why thousands of UK solicitors trust Clio. Now back to the show. Yeah, I love that you’re exceptionally client-centric as well, ’cause I strongly believe, particularly in this world that we’re going through the tech revolution, can’t even mention we haven’t said AI yet on a podcast. It’s crazy, but it’s it’s so so important. And you know, because your firm gives UK people and businesses access to legal expertise, basically around the world. As I say, we keep listing all the

multiple jurisdictions that you’ve been able to operate in. Are there cases where that access has made all the difference when maybe the client might otherwise have been completely out of their debt? Because I think Judicare has recently highlighted a hard thought Supreme Court win in Spain overseas property dispute, which feels like a strong example of the kind of outcome state in this space. So tell us more about that. Yeah, so in in terms of the the Supreme Court decision in that that case

we took that case on probably about fourteen years ago. and it’s gone through various stages. first and foremost, the backstory to it was a client had invested some money into an overseas property in Spain. the developer had not delivered the project and communication had started to be sparse. So we looked at the case. there were some breaches in the contract, so we

We moved against the developer in Spain through the courts in Spain to recover the de the investment. Unfortunately, halfway through the litigation, the developer filed for bankruptcy. But what we needed to do, because we’d already potentially seen that that might be something that might happen. In Spain, there was also another piece of legislation which foresaw that if

a developer had taken a deposit into their accounts through a Spanish bank, then the Spanish bank also had some responsibility and some liability. So we ended up going after the the receiving bank in Spain using the legislation in Spain. We successfully won the first case at first instance. That was about nine years ago. Unfortunately the bank appealed

To the appeal courts, that was another three or four years. We were successful in that appeal. and then unfortunately the bank tried again. so they filed an appeal to the Supreme Court in Spain. And that was another few years of of of of a battle with them. And in recent weeks it we we’ve had the decision that that it’s gone in our favour and the bank’s claim was the bank’s appeal was dismissed. so after a very long fight,

We will recover all of the clients’ money. You know, it’s a life changing amount of money for them. And I think it demonstrates again the resilience that that we and clients jointly, we give this impression that we’re in it with them. We won’t abandon them if if things start to get a bit rough. And we’re in it right till the end. And I think that that’s a perfect example of a long case where we’ve we’ve stood with the client and and finally we’ve we’ve had the successful judgment. So

I think that that’s one of our real highlights certainly in the last last month for sure, in that that case has gone from that very difficult position from the client to when we’re able to write them a nice check. Shoulder shoulder all the way through. so important, isn’t it? Because that’s what clients ultimately

Need and and expect because you know, international property and cross-border legal issues can be full of a lot of misinformation, delay, false confidence, you know, lies. So what do clients most get wrong from your experience at the outset and what should they be asking much earlier? When we speak to clients, we always try to say to them, if you’re buying a property abroad, just on the property issue, then

Have a mindset and approach it in exactly the same manner as if you were buying a house in the UK. You would never use the lawyer of the real estate agent. You would never not get a survey or evaluation. You would never pay a deposit without getting a lawyer to look at things. Yet so many times we see that happen. Where the clients have gone abroad, maybe they’ve had a few drinks, they’ve fallen into the trap of going to see a house, the real estate agent has put.

Pressure on them to sign a deposit there and then. What they think is a reservation agreement, it’s actually a full purchase contract which binds them. So education again is is a big thing for us in terms of trying to get to clients before they get on a plane or before they sign any sort of document in any jurisdiction. it’s just to take a step.

And just to adopt a mindset of what you would do in the UK. Think, would I do that in the UK if I was buying a property? And if the answer is no, then why would you consider it doing in a jurisdiction that you don’t live in with a real estate agent you’ve never met, with a lawyer you’ve never met, pay money to a developer who you have no history with whatsoever. When you start to use that mindset, you can see that there’s many red flags that clients need to be aware of. And that’s not everyone.

Rob, of course. but I think if you adopt that mindset, you typically won’t get into much trouble. Notwithstanding if a developer goes into bankruptcy for financial reasons, that’s just one of those things and there’ll be redress. but but to have in mind to take a a a sensible view before you just jump. It’s so true. I I sort of bit of a segue, I always talk about the way you act online is how you should act offline.

You know, then similarly like the way you’re going about a house purchase here in the UK, you know, you should probably do a similar or at least make sure you’re doing those levels of due diligence in in the same way, or indeed instructing the experts rather than cutting corners. So yeah, really good advice. And y you know, we’ve talked about your frustrations and how you entered the world of law versus a client, not through necessarily the the the legal route. What do you think law firms still do not fully understand about how clients actually experience legal problems?

Over the years the the certainly the law firms I’ve encountered do some fantastic work for clients and and I think you know that they they do get it. You can never understand what a client’s feeling before they make that first call to you. One thing that you can absolutely affect is how that client feels when they put the phone down and they have spoken to you. Just to be that reassuring, calm and authoritative voice, and to make sure that they feel

that when they’ve spoken to you, they feel a lot better than before they did. now obviously what flows from that is do they then want to instruct you and trust you, et cetera. But law firms can affect that decision by how that client feels when they put the telephone down. I love that. They always say, don’t you, it’s not what you do for them, it’s how you make them feel and I can relate to that from my instructions with lawyers or professionals over the years or in the world of work for yeah.

More years than I care to mention that I’ve been been in. what we also love about this conversation is the bigger mission. And, you know, Clio’s mission that supports our show is to transform the legal experience for all. We support that. Here on the show, we’re looking to inspire legal minds and transform legal futures globally. And, you know, your recent work, particularly around building communities, networks for firms and professionals, suggests you’re thinking beyond just individual cases. So what bigger gap

in the market are you trying to fill for UK clients or indeed for UK law firms who need that trusted capability, that international capability, because Judy Care I think has recently been publicly linked with its J Law networks aimed at helping UK firms support clients with international legal needs. So again, tell us more. We’ve always had a network, Rob, but we’ve we’ve actually given a name to it now. so we we we launched J Law very recently and it’s been incredibly well received, I have to say.

because we don’t do any UK work, we’re effectively the perfect complement to UK firms who don’t have any international capability, but do from time to time have the need for, you know, perhaps one of their clients that has an inheritance and there’s an asset in France or in Cyprus, but they don’t really know how to how to do it. So rather than just

putting a thumb in the air and and going on the internet and trying to find a firm that might help. By working with us and joining our community, you know, we’re there to to answer questions, we’re there to to assist their clients, but also to just keep them informed and abreast of certain things that are happening in in international jurisdictions, international markets. So we’re just there to support them and let them know that should they need us or

their clients, then we do have that international capability. And of course, they get the the the added bonus so to speak of the of instructing a a regulated firm in the UK with all of the guardrails and the the safety nets that that that come with that. So J Law’s been really well received I have to say and it’s it’s been it’s been quite enlightening and and really a really welcome to us yeah.

We absolutely fully support community. I think it’s so important for all the reasons you’ve just highlighted there. And I think if you can be in a community, the access to that information, those worries, you know, supportive networks, all of that good stuff, invaluable. Okay, I want to switch lanes back to football, just for some quick fire questions before we close on some legal stuff. So going back to the Arsenal days, who was your favorite player you ever played with? Favorite, not best. Favorite player ever played with Matt Letizier? Best player you ever played with. Matt Letizier. Most

memorable moment as a sportsman. What was your favourite moment? Ooh, good question. probably two that stand out. One would be playing for England at under 21 level, which back then was a a a real a real highlight for myself. Anytime you can be fortunate enough to to wear your national jersey

was incredibly special moment. So playing for the under twenty ones, and I think making my Arsenal debut. Yeah, because I’d signed for the club at thirteen, that Arsenal DNA was very strong. And to be able to work all the way through junior, schoolboy, YTS, young pro, to then get to the first team was was incredibly rewarding because it it

as any professional footballer will tell you, coming through the ranks of a club and playing in the first team is so much harder than if you’re just transferred to a club. so and I think you see that that the players that come through the clubs they have much more of an affinity to the club than than someone who comes on a huge transfer.

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, as a as a Liverpool fan, I I see that as well as some of the board and bread. I don’t think you get any more loyal than a Stephen Gerrard from my experience. That’s why he’s so so loved by the the club. Okay, before we digress, I want to go back to law. So if watchers, listeners are going through a legal issue abroad right now, they perhaps don’t know where to start, maybe they’re looking they’re making an investment property or something else. What advice would you give

To those individuals and what advice would you give to those firms who want to serve their clients better when matters move beyond just the UK? I mean, in terms of the individual, it goes back to what we were saying there. do your due diligence yourself. Ask right. There’s never too many questions. So ask all of the questions before you pay any money to anybody or you enter into any agreements. So that would be our advice. Do your due diligence.

The internet now is an amazing place. You can type everything in to AI almost, and and it will give you some in-depth knowledge that that will arm you and protect you to a point. so certainly do y do your your due diligence and ask questions. And if you’re not sure, ask more questions. In terms of firms, the same really, it would be to to to not ignore the issues. Sometimes we

see things where a firm doesn’t know what to do, so really doesn’t do anything. so I think it would be and that’s part of J Law, it’s trying to get our name out there more visible visibility that, you know, there is a solution out there. And I think in terms of working with law firms, we’re really looking forward to to expanding that that network for ourselves in the UK.

Okay, and two final quick file questions before I let go as well. best piece of careers advice you were given as a football player that’s helped you transition into the world of work, and best piece of advice you’ve been given whilst you’ve been in the legal world? Put me on the spot. best piece of advice it was probably when I was at Arsenal from the legendary Pat Rice. and I think he’s coined it from somebody else.

way back in the annals of Arsenal and it was always remember who you are, what you are, and who you represent. That was on a personal level. In terms of law, I think it’s everything I’ve just been talking about. Ask questions. If you don’t get the right answers, then ask more questions. And never be afraid to ask questions. And if you know if you’re not getting the answers or

one particular firm doesn’t give you a good feeling or the answers, then then look around and make sure that that you feel a hundred percent confident in the firm that you instruct. It’s gonna be a long journey if especially with overseas issues, they’re not quick. They can last for a long time. So you need a firm that’s gonna to our earlier point stand shoulder to shoulder with you.

Yeah, love that. And ultimately, if you don’t know, you don’t know, you know, and we’ve had multiple leaders that have been on the the show that echo a lot of your thoughts and you know, always be curious, right? And be asking those questions and and and quizzing and you know, it’s better to ask than you know, like you say, get yourself in trouble down the line. This has been a a really interesting, fascinating conversation. They’re talking from your your your days, obviously as a professional.

footballer to you know running a highly successful law firm and all the wonderful cases and good work you’ve been doing for your clients and and beyond. So this is no doubt is going to inspire a lot of our listeners and watchers around the world. So if they want to know more indeed about yourself or indeed Judicare Law International, where can they find out more? Feel free to share any websites, any social media handles. We’ll also share them with this special episode for you too. Perfect. You can reach us at Judicare Group dot com is the website.

and there’s all of the information on there. We have lots of articles, lots of case studies, the information as it relates to G Law is on there. There’s also another initiative at G Club. so there’s lots of information on the website and v and and relevant links to get in touch with us through the website at Judicaregroup dot com. Perfect. Well it just leads me to say thank you so much once again.

Neil for joining us on the Legally Speaking Podcast. It’s been an absolute blast. Wishing you and indeed everyone at the firm lots of continued success and indeed for your future pursuits. But for now, from all of us, over and out. Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. If you like the content here, why not check out our world leading content and collaboration hub, the Legally Speaking Club, over on Discord? Go to our website, www.legallyspeakingpodcast.com.

There’s a link to join our community there. Over and out.