“The biggest gift that we can give to people in the age of AI is how do we make them better humans.” – André Noël Chaker

On today’s episode, I’m delighted to be speaking to Andre Noël Chaker.

Andre is an entrepreneur, internationally recognised keynote speaker, author and communication expert who brings together law, business, technology and leadership. Originally from Canada and now based in Finland, his career has spanned corporate law, executive leadership, entrepreneurship and professional speaking. As co-founder of MySpeaker and creator of Rhetorich AI, Andre is passionate about helping professionals communicate with greater impact while preserving authenticity and human connection. His work explores how AI can enhance communication, storytelling and leadership, while emphasising that curiosity, trust, credibility and authentic human interaction will remain essential in an increasingly AI-driven world.

So why should you be listening in? 

You can hear Rob and Andre discussing:

– Communication Becoming the Hard Currency

– AI Amplifying Human Communication Skills

– Authenticity Depending on Consistent Alignment

– Storytelling Making Complex Ideas Memorable

– Curiosity Driving Exceptional Future Leadership.

Connect with André Noël Chaker here – https://fi.linkedin.com/in/andr%C3%A9-no%C3%ABl-chaker-b50a883

Transcript

This is the gift we wanted to give everyone. 

Authenticity and perceived authenticity is a question of alignment. Do you talk the talk? When you speak, are all the elements of voice, appearance, and the words you use align in a way that is authentic, meaning that you don’t speak like this today and then act like that tomorrow. There’s consistency in your communication. 

The inquisitive mind has never had an opportunity of being nourished at this level. The openness and the humility of asking questions, you will get a rich array of answers back. And finding with your own human judgment and creativity will still be very important for our leaders. Finding new ways, new opportunities has never been more exciting than it is today. 

On today’s Legally Speaking podcast, sponsored by Clio, I’m delighted to be joined by Andre Noel Schacer. Andre is an entrepreneur, internationally recognized keynote speaker and author.

He is one of the leading voices on communication, leadership, and artificial intelligence. Originally from Canada and now based in Finland, Andre has built a career spanning law, business, entrepreneurship, public speaking, and technology. A former corporate lawyer and executive in the global legal professional services space, Andre has become one of the Nordic’s region’s most sought after keynote speakers. He is also the co-founder of MySpeaker, a leading speaker agency, and the creator.

Of Rhetoric AI, helping professionals communicate more effectively through AI. Andre is also the best-selling author of The Finish Miracle: Exploring Leadership, Trust, and Culture. Today we’re exploring what it takes to communicate with impact in the age of AI. We’ll discuss leadership, entrepreneurship, public speaking, the future of communication, AI, and why authentic human connection is so significant in today’s world. So a very big warm welcome to the show, Andre.

It’s great to be here. Thank you for inviting me. I’ve been waiting for this for weeks already. it’s an absolute pleasure to finally get you on the show. Before we get into all the great stuff you’re doing, a couple of icebreaker questions for you. Firstly, what’s your favorite beverage? And what is your preferred footwear of choice on a typical workday? For the better or for the worse, my mm my favorite beverage is black coffee. I I’m slightly addicted to it. I I

All the advice says that I should stop drinking this stuff, but for some reason it it reminds me of staying up all night at McGill Law School to to pass the the my torts exam. I I hate I I I I love this stuff. It works for me and I I I I don’t it doesn’t seem to h to hurt me too much. So yeah, I’m gonna continue on drinking a beautiful black beautiful black coffee every day. Good stuff. And on your footwear typically on a work day?

I have something that is a bit of a hybrid between a dress shoe and a sneaker shoe. I can show you if you like. Yeah, show our listeners and watches. So you see, it’s I’m very various makers of of these shoes. Dressy sneakers, if I can call them that. Bugatti is one manufacturer that does this very, very well. I I enjoy wearing these. Ready to run, but in style. Yeah, love it.

Okay, and another quick fire question before we get rocking and rolling. What’s one piece of legal tech or everyday technology you now rely on every day that would have seemed unthinkable earlier in your career? my God. Harvey, you know, these are these are amazing tools. They’ve inspired a lot of our work at Rhetorich. And my God, if we would have had this when I was a young lawyer. my God. well, I guess everybody says the same thing, but yeah. Absolutely.

Well, why don’t we go back to when you were a a young lawyer and perhaps give us a short version of your career journey from practicing law in Canada to obviously building a career as an entrepreneur, keynote speaker, leading a communication expert. Talk us through a bit of your journey. Yeah, well, a as you as you are hinting towards, I I it’s it’s an eclectic career. So it’s it’s McGill Law School, the national program for French Canadians like myself. It was a a a great opportunity to immerse ourselves into British

Canadian American law and I I became a lawyer in New York State. I’m still a member of the New York Bar. I I wanted to become a lawyer. I wanted to to go on Wall Street, and then the phone rang, and I ended up in Finland of all places. as a young attorney. the the reason is this Finnish scientist of a sports science organization was looking for

a an executive director and that executive director had to be well this was the criteria young lawyer mean meaning cheap lawyer this person had to be mm fluent in french and english and other languages i i spoke four and my my native tongue is french and and english was beaten into me as as a child in in canada so there i i passed that test and then this person also needed and of course

Be willing to to to to move and immigrate to Finland. And they had hired a Belgian lawyer, and this Belgian lawyer came to Finland and she left with her family six months later. And when asked why did you leave, the the the answer was, it’s too cold in Finland. Okay. So this person needed to be winter resistant. And I claim that the only place in the world where you’ll find

Perfectly bilingual young lawyers from good from a good law school who also is winter resistant. There’s only one place in the world, and that is Montreal, Canada, where I come from. Very well said. Very well said. Okay, so from there, you’ve gone on to speak to audiences across more than 30 countries. Unbelievable. From your expertise, what separates an average speaker from an individual who really truly changes the way people think?

think and has your own speaking style evolved over the years? my lord that that that is the question of my life. You’ve done you’ve done your homework, Rob. Thank you. I’ve dedicated my life to answer that question. And and it’s it it starts with a father who who was also a lawyer and then turned into a professor of of l of language and literature at McGill, of fascinated by it by the art of rhetoric. My my father was somebody who

Who, if you wanted to impress him, you had to speak well. You had to speak eloquently. In in in his case, it had to be French eloquence, l’iloquence, you know. Finding that his his school of thought on what is truly impactful when we speak is not speaking perfectly. perhaps the same fallacy as received pronunciation from your country and many other countries have something similar.

And and we now know from the evolution of AI and robotics and all the science that we have about speaking in the past 10 years, which is more than what we’ve had in the past thousands of thousand years, is that impact comes from different things. A lot, not perfection, but actually things like credibility, likability, the perception of authenticity, persuasion, human presence, storytelling.

These are the things that drive impact. Whether you’re in the courtroom or in the boardroom or at home with your children, these are the things that make humans have a change of heart, a change of mind, and and perhaps, if you’re lucky, a change of course of action. And and that’s why we’re so keen to have the conversation, because going on from that, communication is such an important leadership skill. And it’s often described as a soft skill.

Yeah, it underpins a lot of success of leaders. So why do you believe communication is one of the hardest and most valuable skills to master? I think that is such a misnomer to call this skill a a soft skill, as as you as you hinted towards. I I think that speaking will be the hard currency of the future. It’ll be the hard currency of lores going forward. It it’ll actually be the only thing that differentiates us from the from AI, at least for for the foreseeable future.

And and and for this, and and and we need to take a hard look at this skill and how we can now develop this skill going forward because it it’ll be the at the core, at the epicenter of how we make a difference as lawyers going forward. Because a l a lot of our written work has now been automated. maybe not our thinking work completely, but definitely our our written work. And we need to shift our energy to

Towards becoming better humans, better spoken word professionals, because our written work has now been not taken away from us but enhanced greatly. And we should be grateful for this. And we should be grateful for the opportunity of investing that time that we’re saving into becoming better humans, better speakers, better communicators, because that’s where we’re going to add value into the society going forward. Let’s talk about speakers then, because you founded and built successful businesses, including

my speaker. So what has entrepreneurship and business ownership taught you that no corporate career could have? One is that speaking is critical. It’s crazy, but and still in our countries here in the Nordics where I where I’m now moved to, I I could not believe that I have an L L D and a and a and a BC, I have all these law degrees and I’m a member of the New York Bar.

But I did my MBA. I w I I wanted to to you know deep dive into business. I did my MBA here in in Finland, believe it or not, in finance at the time. And I I was I was surprised that we had the token communication class. And now, believe it or not, they cut this class from the the bachelor’s program here, right? I cannot believe how we are disinvesting in a skill that will be critical for the future of our of our young students. I you know, I I even

Went on a podcast, a colleague of yours at Legal Week, they asked me, Well, no, shouldn’t we give something like Rhetorich AI, so which is a platform that helps young lawyers and and lawyers in general become more impactful when they speak? Shouldn’t we give this for free in law schools? And I said, I definitely will. And I and I made a a public promise that the day Rhetorich AI hits a billion in valuation, we’re going to give this for free into law schools. So how critical it is to take the written work.

the written word and deliver it as something valuable in in a verbal format is something that has been so underestimated in our in our education that and still is and and and we need to change course quite rapidly on that one. Yeah, because looking forward then with the future of you know public speaking, I talk very much about

Personal brand raising and getting on stages and going on podcasts and various other things, you know, but one thing is is happening as we’re seeing is everything is changing, right? So the speaking industry has changed a lot over the last decade as well, with virtual events that hybrid conferences, AI generated now content transforming expectations. How do you see that professional speaking evolving over the coming years? And particularly if you’re in a leadership position or law firm partner or going out there and presenting, yeah, what what do you see looking forward given the world we live today?

Well, I I definitely see a a boost in quality. I I I was speaking to our our former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada. her name is Beverly McLaughlin, and I’m I’m probably not well known to to your audience, but she’s a legend where i in in Canada. And believe it or not, she she took a call from me on on this question and that she said, you know, Andre, I I don’t know much about AI, but

I I know that you know the oral advocacy of most colleagues has s been so inferior to their written work over the years. I really hope that your little engine is gonna help them get better, right? So also I I I believe that AI injected into our speaking acumen will make us more impactful and and and better speakers across the board. I think the our

So our average speakers will become good and our good speakers will become great of at a faster rate, which will make it great for us. We’re gonna get a like a you know, we were training our speakers here at MySpeaker to become even better than what they are. But I think that the bar will just rise higher and higher and higher and higher. so that and and therefore audiences will be more inspired. That they will they they will get more insights, they will get

what what you want from from a speaker is is is two things that so insight and inspiration. Yeah. So I I want to get insights. I want to learn something I don’t know and that that you can open my eyes to something that is valuable coming into my life soon. And then you can inspire me, motivate me, play with the emotional the the emotional threads in inside of me that will make me want it more and and and and have more energy and have

may maybe even mind the the mindfulness to continue to pursue the objectives and dreams that I have. And and that’s to your point about why being good at storytelling is so good at that. I remember what a mentor said to me very early on, Rob, yeah, the facts will tell, but it’s the stories that will sell. They’ll get people engaged, inspired, and learn. The data on storytelling is so telling. Yeah, literally five to twenty X in terms of impact.

And when I speak of impact, I say well that when when a lawyer speaks in facts and theory or when a lawyer speaks in story and case examples. And and from from that perspective, you know, British common law is is is fantastic from that perspective. You know, case law is a set of stories, isn’t it? So so so when you are able to embrace this and use this to your advantage, is it fantastic? But we’re talking in the science that measures impact. So impact defined by what people will understand.

What they will on top of that remember and on top of that believe. We’re talking 5 to 20x more impact when you package your facts into a story format versus a list of facts and data. Think about that. It’s not a minor issue. It’s not like a nice to have entertaining layer on communication. It’s whether people will actually believe you or not. It depends on your ability of embedding those.

Facts and figures into a story. That is such a huge skill. And we’ve developed the tools, the algorithm of storytelling on rhetoric, with tools that help people become better storytellers, help lawyers and associates, especially who who are are quite timid in in this regard to become more powerful in their storytelling.

Yeah, so let’s go deeper then on Rhetoric AI because it’s a wonderful platform. But for folks that might be new to it, I know you’ve been touching on it there, but just explain exactly what it is that you do, what inspired you to develop the platform and how can these professionals use AI to become better communicators without, very important point, losing that authenticity piece. That is so important. My my father was a passionate professor of of of language and rhetoric and I I became

a lawyer because I I wanted to be in court. I wanted to win cases. I and I and I saw that the ability of speaking r drove me to places that I never thought I I could achieve and and and attain. I also saw that this gift of speaking was not equally distributed i in the profession. So

I I believe I w I wanted to help. I it’s in my nature. I w I wanted to help. And but then I I left the law to enter the world of technology as a CEO of of a few technology companies, using of course my legal background, but then going deep into the tech industry and led successful technology companies that were then bought by other companies. But

But I I just fell in love with the tech. I fell in love with the law at one point and and still am very much a lover of the law. And then I I have this background in communications and rhetoric. So it all came full circle for me to bring to bring technology to the world of verbal communication impact. And this is the gift we wanted to give everyone. That that this will be the biggest gift that we can give to people in the age of AI is how do we make them better humans.

Augmenting their ability to have an an impact when they speak. And we started five years ago in a lab with a great company called Silo AI. They they were bought by AMD bought for 600 million a couple of years ago. just a tremendous team of AI voice, A AI audio, AI. We had a a a great team of people that brought in

the the best possible knowledge on creating a a platform that will make humans more impactful when they speak. And then we found that my old profession were the ones who were buying this the most from us, right? Wow. they’re all you know, and they say, hey, we have we need this for all the associates in the firm. We have like these these great law firms in the Nordics that just kept on buying this. And we saw that, yeah, well, this is something that they can use immediately. And actually, why don’t we create

workflows, work tools that will help them the same way Lagora and and Harvey are helping you for your written work and your w written use cases. We have all of these verbal use cases that we can use readily for professionals in the legal profession to make themselves better in the courtroom, better in negotiations, more effective in depositions, even more effective in consultations. And then you can do role play with our agents that will prepare you to be

At your very best when that occurs. And of course, and not not speaking of of things that are not legal specific, which are so critical nowadays, especially in the age of AI. You know, when you’re talking about an RFP and business development, how do you win these cases? How do you sell yourself as a lawyer? Which is is it it’s a handicap for us. Many of us don’t know how to sell ourselves well enough. We we we believe that we are experts and selling doesn’t feel that natural. But if we you practice it and find your own way of doing it.

AI and Reddit Rich AI can help you become a better spokesperson for yourself and for your firm and a better salesperson, business development person for your firm. Today’s episode is brought to you by Clio. If you’re spending more time managing your practice than practicing law, it’s time for a change. Clio is the intelligent legal work platform built for modern solicitors.

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Visit Clio.com forward slash UK to find out why thousands of UK solicitors trust Clio. Now back to the show. Leadership in AI is going to be crucial. So leaders of today are facing constant disruption. So from your perspective, what qualities define exceptional leadership looking forwards? An open mind, definitely. The age of dogma.

Is behind us. The inquisitive mind has never had an opportunity of being nourished at this level in the history of mankind. So if you have the openness and the humility of asking questions, you will get a rich array of answers back. And finding with your own human judgment and create creativity, which will still be very important for our leaders, finding new ways, new opportunities has never been.

more exciting, let’s say, than it is today. I think these are the things that are gonna distinguish our successful leaders from those who’ll just muddle through the AI age. So let’s bring the two together then. We’ve talked a little bit about these, but what does then authentic leadership and communication look like in practice? In practice it it doesn’t look very authentic when you’re reading a state a ready made statement and y you’re publishing fairly sterile, sterile press releases about what what you’re doing, but

when you are able to to present yourself in a way that many people on this on this podcast have been very transparent, also showing some vulnerability, also admitting things like I don’t know. and taking responsibility for that. And that that is that is I think key. And also a certain level of alignment.

Authenticity and perceived authenticity is a question of alignment. You know, do you talk the talk? and and then when you speak, are is is are all the elements of voice, appearance, and the words you use align in a way that is authentic, meaning that they you don’t speak like this today and then act like that tomorrow, and that there’s consistency.

in in in your communication and in in the way you you behave. That’s gonna be important. That can also be rehearsed because sometimes we we do it and and w we would like to be authentic, but we don’t come across as authentic. By using this kind of language with this kind of nonverbal communication style might be more aligned with who you truly are, and you don’t just realize it right now. So, well thank you. and then you can rehearse that. And I think the the other key point to to sort of

mention here as well is that the words are great, but they have to be matched by the actions, particularly with leadership as well. Because if you’re saying all the right things and then the actions are different, then that trust will obviously go down. I want to move away now from the spoken word to the written word. Because your book, The Finish Miracle, explores what makes Finland consistently perform so well internationally. I thought it was really interesting. So what leadership lessons do you think the rest of the world could learn from Finland? wow the

There there are so many things. One listening.

F Finns have a a a great word. It’s called puhan vuoro. It means that you have your your turn to speak, which in infers that it’s your the others’ turn to listen. It’s a it’s a beautiful Could you say it again? How do you pronounce that, sorry? the word? Puhan vuoro. so it’s you’re a turn to speak. So it’s it’s a that it’s everybody. Everybody has a turn. And we wish I have to respect the turn of others, which means we we listen.

And we don’t just try to talk you know aggressively against them or or or interrupt them. You should never in Finns will never interrupt each other when they speak. There there’s something sacred about the spoken word. I I mean we’re talking about the written word, but but this this spoken word I I think is w is one beautiful part of of of Finnish culture is that it it feels very silent and quiet, but it’s it’s one where people are extremely well educated. Finish Finnish education is

is one of the best in the world. The the they’re they’re smart. They they they but they listen in in ways that I’ve never experienced el anywhere else in the world. And I’ve learned this. I I used to just want to be well in in our profession as well. You know, you you you especially in New York City where where where I I was a lawyer for a while. It’s a very aggressive speaking culture, right? But but there’s so much to be gained in listening, learning, and then speaking. Then you

What comes out of your mouth usually is of higher quality. Yeah, and it got drilled into me very early on with my first boss, I think it was. Two ears, one mouth, Rob. Use them in that proportion. And I love you. If you if you can get around that, I think you’ll let Sounds like the Finnish person. Well I think I’ve still got work to do, but I l I love that. And thank you for sharing that. And that’s the beautiful thing about having these conversations. One thing I’ve touched on, but I want to get your thoughts on this now, is is trust, because the theme of trust appears throughout the great work that you’re doing.

So why has trust become one of the most valuable currencies in both business but also leadership? Digitalization has created an opportunity to to break human trust at at a scale that is frightening. it it polarizes our societies, it it creates cybersecurity risks, you can you d you don’t know who to trust.

in in the digital age as much. And therefore, when when trust is under massively under attack, the the va the the value of of of trust just skyrockets. And I and I believe that that it will be a a the the currency of the future as well. Is and and of course coming back to my speaking argument is that we I think that when you speak you are able to create this. When you get written

emails and and and and posts on on on social media that are written. you can say, well, you know, where is this coming from? Are these people real? But I can guarantee you that that I am not an AI robot. I’m I’m I’m a human being talking to you, Rob. And I believe that we will still trust this interaction more than than any other. And and therefore placing a premium on on trust is is so in is so important.

We see this when we measure people’s impact. We we we measure credibility. And and credibility is not only competence. Credibility is two other C’s, your character and your caring. These are the things that that are part of the algorithm of of of credibility and trust. So not only are you able and competent, but you are also somebody that I can trust that has

the character that I perceive as being trustworthy and therefore I will give you my business because I trust you. And then it then the the the third one, the the caring part is that I I see that this is important to you. This is there there’s a bigger purpose there for you and and that makes me attached to you as a as another human being. these three C’s of of credibility are are important and they’re all fun foundational in creating that trust that we need to to

to be able to move forward with our partners. And thank you for being so so clear and and and giving some rich thoughts around that. And and you’re right, aren’t you? Those other two C’s are so, so important. One thing that we’ve we’ve talked about, but I want to maybe give our listeners a a practical tip, is is storytelling, because you’re known for obviously using storytelling to ultimately simplify a lot of complex ideas. I talk very openly in a lot of talks I give that say complexity fails, simplicity scales. Kind of as a you know a simple

Simple mantra. What would be one top tip again to our watchers, listeners, for lawyers, people in the legal world for becoming a good storyteller? What would be a sort of practical tip for them? I I I wanna give it to you in the most simplistic way, simplistic way as possible. We came up with this model at at at Rhetorich that is a cousin to to another discipline, which is the discipline of marketing. And you you may know the the the four Ps of marketing.

Do you know the four P’s of marketing? I do, but tell our listeners. All right. So it’s it’s it’s it’s about having a product at a certain price, in a place, in a marketplace, you know, and to which you attach some kind of promotion. Marketing. In a nutshell, it made marketing simple. Well, we came up with the four P’s of storytelling to make storytelling simple. Because people don’t know.

What a story is. And when you ask them, tell me a story, I don’t have any stories. Yes, actually you do, but but you need to understand what a story is. What are the foundational parts and elements of a story? And to make it easier, we broke it down to four P’s. Are you ready? So the first P is critical. It’s people. At the heart of s of stories is our humanity, other people. This is why.

advertising is full of people, other people. We identify with other people. It’s the story of somebody, not something, not a theme, not not a not an article in the newspaper, not a number, no a person. You can attach personality to to certain elements that are not people, people. But generally speaking, our our minds are triggered by people that are facing a problem.

Something to be solved. It’s you know the problem is the engine of a story. There’s no problem, there’s no story. It’s not important. We don’t care. But you know, and then you ask you ask people, you know, you do you have a story? No, I have no story to tell. Do you have problems? Yeah, I have a lot of problems. Yeah, tell me your problems. Well, wow, then you’ve got to you have a hundred stories already. So so the engine of a of a story is the problem that to which you can find a solution that will then be

be played out in the in the course of a plot, you know, whether it, you know, what the the the timeline, the conditions, the the the time and place elements the that that are full of surprises and twists and turns and the plot, then but then fundamentally the purpose. Why are you telling me this? You know, it’s it’s it’s it it can be very interesting, but does it serve a purpose? You know

I’m telling you this because you asked me that you needed a good toolkit for storytelling. So there’s a per a purpose to my story. but these four Ps are the essence of storytelling. We were happy to extract them, and and it’s the model through which we teach storytelling to our corporate customers and to our lawyers and to their partners, is to make sure that you have in each one of these P categories good content that fits together.

Then it’ll be impactful. Otherwise it’ll be a weak story or not a story at all. Love that framework. And I I love the purpose, but at the end, it’s sort of the the so what, isn’t it? It’s like, you know, what you know that’s right, the the so what of storytelling, exactly. Yes. Personal reinvention now. You’ve openly said, you know, your career is unconventional. It’s taken from lawyer, executive, entrepreneur, speaker, tech founder. How important is reinvention in today’s professional world, particularly in the way of AI?

I think it’s critical. I I think that people have the tools to reinvent themselves if they want to. Th that being said, the you know, I I have colleagues who have been in the in the same silo for the past twenty years. They’re very happy there. they became judges of the Court of Appeals. You know, they’re they’re great. I mean they they’ve done really well in their own silo and that and that’s fine, but even in that in that siloing sector.

they they’ve innovated and learned and and so on. I mean it it’s a question of personality and character as well, of course. I’ve always wanted to to go out of the law into business. I I you know, my my father was a lawyer, my my mother was you know, they they were Italian merchants in Little Italy and in Montreal. I I you know I I I was fascinated by the world of law and the world of business. I wanted to combine them. It’s a character origin story thing. So

I I wanted to reinvent myself in in using these these two backgrounds. I think that it it’s good for human beings. probably good advice. Just as I sat here, there’s things going through my mind with that advice, sort of ten years on in certain projects and things, thinking that that is very sage advice right there. Okay.

we’ve talked a lot about looking forwards, we’ve talked a lot about sort of people in the now. We like to give a lot of giving back to the next generation advice. So, young professionals entering a career, which looked very different probably just a few years ago now, given the AI revolution we’re in. What advice would you give to a young student trying to build and future-proof a career? Embrace AI with passion. Embrace it in a fun way. Embrace it in a

In a way to multiply yourself. I the the the young people we’re hiring here, they’ll say, yeah, well, you’re not just hiring me, you’re you’re hiring like 12 agents that I’ve just coded. And that’s that’s fantastic. The the c the same curiosity and open-mindedness that we talked about for our leaders, I think has has to be there maybe at a at a multiple for our our our our younger workforce. I I hear stories of a lot of consultancies, law firms that are not hiring.

And I think it’s a big mistake because we’re gonna need leaders in the in the future. But I think that our young people need the responsibility to take responsibility for embracing AI tools to teach us something about AI that we still don’t know. experiment with it, multiply yourself. But as and and as I said, we need a transformation of our educational system. Our universities are not

preparing our young people the way they should be prepared. They they’re more fearful of AI and and they’re more you know concerned about plagiarism than than just g g giving tools to our young people to to make them the most valuable version of themselves using AI tools that that will make them irresistible to hire. And and then that’s what we need to do. Well said. I think the core of this conversation has obviously been a lot around communication.

You know, a lot of things break down because of poor communications. A lot of things go well because of good communication. So after you coaching thousands of leaders, what are some of the most common mistakes you see for people that might land again with some of the people watching and listening with this that they could work on? And how can they work on them? A couple of things. One is prepare.

This is s something that is has been the key driver of our profession is our is our written work and we we invested so much time in in in writing these great briefs and all these pro s procedures within such a s you know, stellar work on on the written side and then, you know, your day in court comes, I’m gonna wing it, right? This is the same for our executives. You know, they put so much time in and like the it’s a

It’s 170 slides on this new project, this new pitch, and then and then all all the written work and the research is done. And then the day before, it’s tomorrow. I’ll wing it, right? Don’t wing it. Prepare, prepare, improvise. This is the slogan. Prepare, prepare, then improvise. And then you will win that case. You will render justice to the written and research work that you have done.

it’s it’s it’s complete madness how how how little are people prepare for a verbal delivery of their written work, in in all industries, including the legal industry. that is definitely one. The the other is the the paucity of stories, shying away from story, fe feeling that if I tell a story I don’t sound as credible. But again, I I’m we’re talking five to twenty X in more impact when you do use stories and in

In an appropriate way. Okay, it’s you know, you have to be sensitive to to your industry. But by finding a new way of of including narratives in what you’re doing, you will capture the imagination. You will make people remember you, trust you, do business with you, decide in your favor. You have to embrace a narrative structure to what you’re saying, or at least to a greater degree, if you want to be successful in the future.

Okay, so let’s stick with the future then as we look to sort of close today. What developments do you see in AI, leadership, communication, that individuals should be paying more attention to? There’s so much on on the horizon. I I think that we will see the day where, good or bad, we will we will be confronted to the the age of physical AI, which is the big the big growth right now. What physical AI may mean is that it may be in

Intrusive into our body, in into our ears, into our brains, into our eyeglasses. this is scary, but when you look at how poorly we’ve done in terms of leadership, the leadership industry has has sucked up tens of billions of of dollars and pounds over the years, and and still our leaders are are mis are are more miserable than ever are the the

the the the working cultures are are not doing much better. We we haven’t been very good at training our leaders. What if through some intrusive mechanism, whether it’s a a leadership coach in your glasses or in your ear saying, you know, maybe you should say this to this person right now. you know, sort of a a full on, on the body, physical

a touch more intrusive direction to how I can become a better leader lawyer going forward might be where we’re going and it shouldn’t scare us too much. Love it. Yeah, I love that confidence in sort of embracing this next wave of what’s coming. Okay, final piece of advice. You have to finish this sentence. So if you had to complete it, how would you finish it? The leaders who thrive in the age of artificial intelligence will be those

Who are curious and embraced their humanity at a level that we’ve never seen before. that’s lovely. That’s definitely going to be one of our graphics or one of the quotes for the the episode, I’m I’m sure. Ongle, this has been an absolute masterclass. Really enjoyed today’s discussion. Just need to say thanks so much once again for joining us on the Legally Speaking podcast. It’s been an absolute blast. Hopeful more collaborations in the future. But for now, from all of us, over and out.

Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. If you like the content here, why not check out our world leading content and collaboration of the Legally Speaking Club over on Discord? Go to our website, www.legallyspeakingpodcast.com. There’s a link to join our community there. Over and out.