Based in California, Marc has been an attorney for 24 years, running a practice specialising in criminal defence, family law and more. Marc is well-known for his practice Pot Brothers at Law.
He’s also a major Instagram influencer, and runs the @pot_brothers_at_lawaccount with his brother (which boasts over 480,000 followers). Through his Instagram, and other social media accounts, he regularly gives great advice to US motorists on how to prevent being detained by the police for cannabis possession. His key takeaway if stopped by the police? ‘Follow the Script’ and then ‘Shut The F*** Up!’
Additionally, he’s also produced several films and plays. His latest film, entitled ‘Tripe Latte’, is coming out soon. What’s more, he’s a podcast co-host for the popular ‘Cannabis Talk 101’ show and an actor!
Topics covered include:
- How he built his practice straight out of law school by networking in libraries and coffee shops
- How going viral on Instagram changed his life and created a second career for him and his brother
- His advice for avoiding being imprisoned (or worse…) on cannabis possession charges (US-context)
- Why he believes all drugs should be legal and how cannabis prohibition has racist undertones
- Why cannabis is institutionally mischaracterised thanks to the term ‘recreational’
Rob Hanna (00:00:00):
Welcome to the Legally Speaking Podcast. I’m your host, Rob Hanna this week. I’m delighted to be joined by Mark Wasserman. Mark has been an attorney for 24 years with his own practice, Law Offices of Mark D Wasserman. A firm, focusing on criminal defense, family law, personal injury and business litigation. He’s also the owner of race IPSA productions, a production company, which produces plays and films, which touch on social issues to provoke thought. In 2004, Mark and his big brother Craig joined forces becoming the Pot Brothers at Law. An unparalleled cannabis industry law firm, which advisors and represents the cannabis industry in a variety of jurisdictions, championing the movement for legislation and educating us citizens about their constitutional rights when dealing with law enforcement. In addition, their shut the F up campaign has been gaining viral traction around the world. So a very, very warm welcome Mark.
Marc Wasserman (00:00:59):
Thank you very much, Robert. It’s a pleasure to be here. That was a great intro.
Rob Hanna (00:01:04):
We dive into all your amazing achievements and experiences today. We do have a customary icebreaker question here on the Legally Speaking Podcast, which is, on the scale of one to 10, 10 being very real. How real would you rate the reality hit series suits in terms of its reality?
Marc Wasserman (00:01:23):
One. And I wish I just had a stack of folders to go here. I did that motion last night. Oh, here’s another motion that I did just out of my butt here, here. Here’s another one. And they do scenes like that. Well, here’s another one and, you know, it’s a lot of fun. I love the show, but real? I don’t know.
Rob Hanna (00:01:46):
Yeah. I think one given that you’ve you, you know, you’re aware around the legal industry. I think one is a fair answer. So let’s, let’s start at the beginning. Tell us a bit about your, your sort of family background and upbringing.
Marc Wasserman (00:01:58):
All right. So I was born in,California, LA, California, and I grew up in a city called Cerritos Cerritos, California, which is right on the outskirts of LA County and Orange County. So kind of right in the middle, but it’s still LA County. And I’ve got two older brothers. My oldest brother has got, 10 years on me, he’s a doctor and he actually has been advising the presidents with regards to COVID and the older people he runs long-term end of life facilities. He’s a geriatrician. My other brother who we all know I work with, he’s got eight years on me and dies his hair. So everybody thinks I’m the older brother. I don’t dye it. So yeah, that’s my, that’s my big brother. He’s, he’s more when it comes to this kind of stuff and everything else kind of behind the scenes and, uh, not as active on social media as I am, but a very integral to everything we do and keeping my ass in line, you know, my older brother.
Rob Hanna (00:03:06):
Hey, good stuff. So did you always want to become an attorney? Was that always the plan?
Marc Wasserman (00:03:11):
No, no. The plan was since I was, dont know, nine, I was an actor, I grew up with the bug doing summer stock and musical theater and all that kind of stuff. And when I got to college, I was a theater arts major. I actually, when I was 18, I contracted meningitis. I almost died and it gave me a little kick like right when I got better, I dropped out of college and went to Hollywood, because that’s what I wanted to do. And you don’t need a degree, you know? And I was going after that theater arts degree, but I was like, I could die tomorrow, I guess. And that really kind of fueled the way I would live the rest of my life. Like gotta do shit now, or it might be too late. I don’t know. So that’s what I did. And then I pounded the pavement out there in Hollywood until I decided I wanted to finance the plays and films I was starting to write. And when I realized I didn’t want to get investor money because of all the film, everything I worked on, you see what happens, the people with the money want to control the creative people and there’s a lot of that going on. It’s like, Hey yeah, I need my own money to do it. And while I saw my oldest brother making a boatload, being a doctor, there was no way I was going to school for whatever it wasn’t happening.
Marc Wasserman (00:04:33):
Other brother here, he could go to law, I could do it. He can do it. I can do it. So I actually went to law school to make money to finance plays and films I was writing. So that was my initial motivation into law school and I was always a horrible student throughout, you know, kindergarten grade school, high school college. And when I decided I was going to go back and become an attorney, I had, you know, I dropped out after my first semester as a freshman. So when I finally went back, I basically, I went to community colleges, three different ones. And this is back in the nineties, you know, and I was doing TV courses where you watch the TV professor and then you take a test and you mail it in. I mean, I did whatever I had to do to go get my undergraduate degree. And then through the help of my brother in the law school, he went to, I was able to get into this law school. He knew the president of the law school. And you know, I, I wasn’t the best student, but I’m a good talker.
Rob Hanna (00:05:40):
So, so, so the real Harvey specter actor turned lawyer. Uh, but at the actual reality, there we go. Well, I love that. I love that.
Marc Wasserman (00:05:48):
Oh, the, the, the deep dive into that actual story we’ll save for another day because it would haunt me because I was so scared of the way I got in. I was so scared of failing out. The president of the school was like, I’m watching you, I’m watching you. And like I said, bad Student, it was the first time in law school was the first time I studied really and applied myself. I was scared. And you know, for here in the States, I don’t know how it is there, but when you go to law school orientation, you’re with hundreds, Thousands of people, whoever it is that the incoming class and they tell you, look to your left, Look to your right, those people aren’t going to be there When you graduate and it Was true. Those people weren’t there after the first Semester, it’s crazy. and I studied 15 hours a day, out of just fear and I hated law. I hated school so much. There was no way I was going for three or four years we’d had this impacted two-and-a-half year program. That, and as I said, I like to do fast, fast, fast, fast, fast and that’s what I did. I completed law school in two and a half years. Then I would have never guessed that I’d have to take the California state bar three times. Having gone through law school and finally applying myself studying, academically I got the American jurisprudence award, you know, I got the law review. I was doing all this stuff in law school that I had never achieved academically anywhere else. Oh, pretty cool. Nice. But, but by that same token, I didn’t give a fuck about my grades because I knew I wasn’t going, I wasn’t going to some big law firm. I wasn’t trying to get a job like that. My brother had his own little practice and I knew some other attorneys, you know? And so I knew that I didn’t have to kill myself for two weeks. The whole time I was in Law I killed myself the first year, just to know I could do it. And I got that cushion where I could kind of skate the rest of the way and knowing that I wasn’t relying on grades and all that to get a job because that’s really, I mean, I had probably five To 10 of my really good friends from high school, All went on to Harvard and Yale and all that and work to be working 80 hours a week and big lie, you know? And then now that some of them are partners in those, but you know, they went on that track. Nothing wrong with that and that’s for some people who want to do that, I knew I wasn’t. So when I got done with law school, I was like, okay, now I’m taking the bar. I took it so seriously in terms of studying for four months, taking a bar prep course, I stopped partying as big party animal, big tree. I stopped everything. And II did it. I did everything they told me to do. I took all the practice exams. I was getting nineties and hundreds from the course and all that. And then I go, I take this exam for three days tnd it’s a three month wait after you Take the exam here in California. And the only offered twice a year. So I’m waiting for three months and, so this is back in 1996 and I’ll never forget. It was a result for coming out and the way they did the results back then was mail. And if you got a big envelope, it was your entire exam back,you fail and here’s all arcparts and all this. You get a little envelope. Congratulations. You’re a member of the California State bar. And so that Friday night, the weekend, which we were expecting the mail to come like Monday or Tuesday was our law school graduation. And it was on a big yacht and the Harbor and we’re All partying. And every now and then somebody goes, Hey, for the first time, you can call the state bar tomorrow morning and find out if you pass, they’re opening up. And there was big discussion, should we call, should we wait minute? What are you going to do? And if you know, so we’re all getting, we’re always, we’re all drunk. I wake up in my hotel room, hung over with two nice young ladies that I had partied with. And one of them had gone to law school with me and was like, are you, are you going to call? I don’t know. I think I kind of want to wait, but you know what, I’m going to call screw it.
Marc Wasserman (00:10:13):
So I call and I got right through and I was expecting a busy signal because first time when it got right through and you hear California state bar, last name please. And I said, Wasserman, and then there’s a silence. And then I’m sorry, that name does not appear on the successful list. And I’m like, what the fuck just happened? And I pick up the phone and I called back and of course it’s busy, right? And I call and it’s busy. The girls going well, what’s going on? And I’ll get out of my room. Right. And they get to get out of here and I kick them out. And I’m calling, I think it took about an hour before it finally rang again. California state bar, last name please. I said, Wasserman, W A S S E R M A N, Marc, M A R C. Spell it out. Sorry. That name does not appear in a successful. Is there another list, or is there a wait list. What is this? And then hung Up. And then it, then it sinks in like, I didn’t pass. And there was a half a bottle of vodka next to me from the night before. I’m an alcoholic. I haven’t had a drink in two and a half years old, but I drank it. Then drank that half a bottle, called my mom and dad, said ‘mom, dad just found out I failed the bar. Please call everybody in our family and my friends-because it was Saturday. The next Sunday, the next day was my law school graduation-and I was not going to go’ There was no way I was going to go after Not passing the bar and not being an attorney because what you’re you graduate law school and what?
Marc Wasserman (00:11:59):
So I stayed in that room. I ordered a couple more bottles and pitied myself for a couple of days. Got back up and okay, I got to take it again. But this time I ain’t taking no course, I’m going to go do whatever I do and live my life and study and I did that for three months and I kind of loosely studied and all this and that. I took the exam again. I even drank during lunch of that exam. Cause I, I mean, I was, so it was just so crazy when I, I looked at and I got that package back the first time and You know, and you’re like, what the? And so wait, three months again. Now this time went to my brother’s house on that. It was another Saturday morning and he had like he had all these different lines in his house. We had like five phones and like me and my mom, dad, my brother and his kids were calling, calling last name, please Wassermann, sorry, the name does not appear on the successful list. So again, it happens and I didn’t, you know, now was with my family. So Going on, anything like that, nobody said anything. And I go, all right, I don’t know what I’m going to do.I don’t know what I’m going to do and so I went out that night with a buddy of mine, who we were best friends in law school and named John he’s an Attorney, good friend of mine from law schoolaAnd he used to, he does jujitsu. Yeah, and I did a movie and I cast him in this, in this part. And so that’s the guy I’m talking about John. And he went to law school. His second career, his first career was undercover cop Asian gang unit. And boy, he had some stories. I tell you that because when we studied for the bar, we studied for the bar together the first Time. And then I took it and something happened, somebody in his family died or something and he had to go, he couldn’t take the bar. So he studied again with me the second time. Second time I take the bar, his wife was pregnant, was having some major problems with the pregnancy that ended up turning out good, but he couldn’t take the bar again. Now the third time, I’m like, I don’t know what I’m going to do and he’s, and he has never taken it. But he studied twice so he got a more like ‘I got to take this thing!’. I’m going to study again and I found a guy who concentrates on repeat test takers. If you’ve taken it more than three times or twice, then you know, he’s got this course that he says he can help you. And so I was like I’m going to spend another $3,000 on a course. And you know, it’s expensive to do all this. And then, but he was like, Mark, we just do it, do it with me, you know? And I was okay, I’ll do it.
Marc Wasserman (00:15:06):
And so I go into this course, this attorney named Paul Fowl. And his whole like tagline was ‘I climbed Mount Everest. You can do anything. You can pass this. It’s just figuring out how to take the test.’ And it’s funny cause to look at the guy, like when I first met him, like right, you climbed Mount Everest? and there’s a whole like life magazine story on him and you know, he did it. And you know, people die climbing Mount Everest. And he explained his little philosophy was if you do it the right way, if you know what you’re doing and you prepare and you do it the way you prepare, you’re not going to die. Same with this bar. And he taught, you know, the law and all that, you have it, you know it and all that. He teaches you how to take this test for the people who are grading it. And he was a grader of the bar exam for so many years. So the other thing I decided to do, I took this course, it was a one month course, and then he’s teaching and then he sends you on your way to implement those tools. And so the other two times I studied, I would be in the library somewhere or my parents’ house or my room or whatever. And so I decided this time I was going to go study a coffee shop. Let’s have a Starbucks opened up right near my parent’s house in 1996. And I thought, you know what? I’m going to go from 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM and study it start right in the middle of everything. Because when you take a bar exam, well back in the day before, COVID, you’re in a room with 3,4, 5,000 peopleand there’s noise and there’s distractions ,be sneezed ans this and that. I’ll never forget one exam. You know, they tell you you’re going to lunch, come back one 30, the doors closed and they’re locked and some guy was missed it. And he was banging on the doors crying ‘please’. It’s like going to court, if you’re late in court and that up, you’re late warrant for your client’s arrest or, you know, I mean, it’s, you can’t mess around. So I, I understand why they do that. So I, I decided that I was going to sit there and study amongst all this chaos at a coffee shop so I can study through any distraction. And that’s what I did for three and a half months. I sat there every day, 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM. And as luck would have it, not only did it Starbucks open up in this town center, near my parents’ house in 1996, they also opened a TGI Fridays. So I would go at 6:00 PM after I was done studying, walk across the street, TGI Friday, 6:00 PM to midnight, get drunk, go home, wake up five 30 in the morning and do it all again. And I did that three and a half months sat there and studied. And then before I left to take the bar exam, the third time, as you can imagine, studying for three, three bar exams, I accumulated so much material and practicing exams and all just, and I took it all. I put it in the backyard of my parents’ house right next to a fire pit they have, and I doused it with kerosene and I lit it on fire because I was never taking the test again, no matter what. And I didn’t know at that moment, I just knew I was never taking it again. And we’ll see what happens. And so I go off, I take the exam and now again, we have three months to wait. So you know, here in the States, after you take a bar exam, you know, you’re no longer a law student, you’re not an attorney yet and, well, I couldn’t get a job, try to get a clerk job well, but if you pass the bar in three months, you’ll be an attorney and you’ll be gone. We don’t need an attorney, but he can’t be an attorney yet. So he can’t get that job. As I always say, in between there I’m just the Dick floating around, right? You got to wait and see what happens. I could go work at McDonald’s or whatever, but I decided to go back to that coffee shop. I sat for three months every day. And I wrote a screenplay about my experiences studying for this exam. I mean, if you imagine, if you go to a coffee shop for three and a half months from 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM, you are going to meet character after people have to people.
Rob Hanna (00:19:18):
Marc Wasserman (00:19:21):
Then I wrote this screenplay and then waited for, or not waited for the results. Then the results came around and I passed. And this time, the way it happened was I was, I had decided I’m waiting for the mail. Ain’t calling up anymore and just I’m waiting for the mail and I didn’t care. And so, it was Saturday morning. Again, my brother calls me up at six in the morning and I’m hello, you passed, you’re an attorney. You passed the at six in the morning. You, you really, you got to do this to me. You know, you.re fucking with me, Right? I’m not kidding. It’s on the internet on the internet? I mean the internet barely came out, you know, whatever, you know.I go, okay, so now this ages me really good. So I go to I’m in, I live with my parents, right? I go into my dad’s den where he has what’s called a Commodore 64 computer, with a dial up modem.
Rob Hanna (00:20:26):
Marc Wasserman (00:20:26):
And that was back then. That was like one of the cheapest. And it just, there was no way. It wasn’t connecting. So we drove over to my brother’s house who had whatever was the latest. At that time he had it. And he got on the internet, went to the successful list and there was my name. And it was,I don’t even know. I still, I, that single moment of seeing it and realizing that everything I went through and kept going through and then we went into the backyard, my brother’s house and sat there With my dad and him smoked a big fat joint ,with my dad. First time we did that, he only took two hits. And then my brother said here’s 250 bucks. Let’s drive to Vegas. And we drove four hours away. I turned that 250 into 502 hours, we drove back. And then, my brother said, well, you passed, Well, you passed the bar. Now, what you going to do? You got a job?
Marc Wasserman (00:21:30):
And so the funniest thing is, and I’ve been telling this on clubhouse to law students and repeat bar takers and stuff. Cause there’s, you know, you can do this and, and you don’t necessarily have to go work for some big firm or anybody else. And this happened to me because it’s just the way it happened. I, as I mentioned, I couldn’t get a job before I found out I passed. And then as I Was going to start sending out resumes, two days after I got sworn in I’m at that coffee shop,Starbucks, to go get my triple latte, which is what was my drink back then, which is the name of the screenplay, so triple latte you’ll be watching out for that, and one of the customers saw me. He goes, ‘Hey, are you an attorney now?’ and I say as a matter of fact I am, I got sworn in two days ago. And he said, ‘Oh, My cousin just got a DUI. Can you help?’ And my dumb just said, ‘yeah, sure. Here’s my number, my number, have him call me tomorrow’. And so I walked out and I get the phone, I call my brother, ‘Hey, I think I just got a case. I don’t know what the do I do? I got DUI and what we do, man’. And he goes call Robert friend of my brothers. So this is the benefit of having a brother who’s been practicing In 10 years. He knows attorneys. So Robert who’d been doing criminal defense for 25 years and say, ‘Hey, Robert got a New case and met this guy, DUI, how much?’ That was my first question. How much do I charge for this? And he said, Now 1996, he said for criminal defense to do an arraignment and the pretrial, I charged 750 bucks. I fell out. Okay and he goes, I’ll split it with you. I’ll teach ou. I’ll show you the Ropes, bring you to court, introduce you to the judges and show you how to run the case, Teach you how to do it. And I said, okay, You can get more than seven 50. And he goes, that’s what I charge. You know, that’s, that’s what I charge. 25 years of practice to 750. Just didn’t set right with me, not knowing anything else. So I started making phone calls to criminal defense attorneys in the area, Hey, I got a DUI. Uh, what do you charge? And it was five grand, four Grand through getting an all with the same type of experience. And so I’m like, he’s really underselling yourself. I thought. And so the next day I get the call from the possible client. And the first thing this guy says is, you know, my cousin told me, you just passed the bar and became an attorney. Have you ever been to court? This is my life. I don’t want to go to jail. I got a DUI and I don’t think I, and he just, you know, as he should. I go, you know, those are all great questions and I’ll answer each one of them. Yeah. Just became an attorney. Never went to court. You’re my first client. And he’s, and he’s, I can hear him through the phone going well, you know, I talked to these two other attorneys that have been doing it for five years. Another guy’s been doing it for 10. I go, well, that’s good. Here’s, here’s how it works because I have an older brother who’s been doing this a long time. I have connections to a criminal defense attorney has been doing it for 25 years. He’s an expert. He usually charges five, six grand, but he’s only charging you 1500. And then I get to learn. He’s going to teach me. I’m going to go to court with you. He’s going to run the case. I get to learn. You get two attorneys for the price of one. And you get an expert for like a massive discount. And he met me the next day and gave me $1,500. And I was like, wow. Because one of the things that first came to my mind with my, I told you, I have friends who went to the Ivy leagues and they worked for the big firms and all that. And I was telling, I told, told him this little story as it was happening. And they’re like, and you, you get to keep all that money. I go, well, I’m going to split it with the guy. And he goes, Phil, you’re going to keep having that. If we bring in a case, we get a Pat on the back. And so I realized just the difference from working for yourself or some working for a big meeting, whatever kind of firm. So I went back to Robert and I said, ‘Hey, I got 1500 bucks’. And I get, Oh, I gave him seven 50. And he goes, I told you, I’d split that with you. I go, no, that’s your half. And he goes, what do you mean I got, I got 1500. He goes, why don’t you do that? Times your staff, Robert you’re, you’re undervaluing yourself. And you know, it’s funny because it taught me, there are great, great attorneys out there, great people in all sorts of professions, but they don’t, they can’t ask people for money or, you know, whatever it is, you know, I certainly don’t have that problem, especially when I know there’s value and stuff like that. So, so he was like, Marc, that’s, that’s great that you can do that. I just want half of the seven 50. I told you, you should keep the rest. Cause you got, and I tried to force it on them, but I’m only gonna force so much. You want to keep. Okay, cool. And so, that sent me on my path of my law practice, which was, I did everything. And I was out there at coffee shops at libraries, at restaurants, at stores, at swap meets, At events at wherever, I was with my business cards and what I, and this day, you know, our business cards have to send you some, it has our, we’ll get to that later. The, the whole shut the f**k up and the script and I don’t consent. So this bottom part that says, I don’t consent to searches. Uh, let me contact my attorney and all that. And bulking, my fifth, my law school professor had showed us his card. I have this on the back of my cards. So all my clients know not to talk to the police and not to consent to searches. And so I slapped that on the back of my card. And then I thought, not only is it good for that, but every time I gave my card to somebody and they would look at it and what do people do with cards put in their pocket. They put it in the bag, put it wherever anywhere, but their wallet, not with my card, that card belongs in your wallet, behind your ID. Read it. I hope you never need it. But if you get pulled over and you have to, you’re gonna pull out your ID and go, Oh yeah, I remember my rights. And so direct marketing. I get my card inside everybody’s wallet behind their ID. And I started doing that in 1996. And so, Hey, you have a contract dispute? Yes, you have a will? Yes. You need real estate? Yes. You need whatever. And I would go through my brother’s connections and the ones I created an attorney who did it, split the fee, learn how to do it. And that was it. And then after, you know, four or five years, I honed in on criminal defense and family law and I didn’t need help anymore. I did personal injury too for a time, but after about five years, I didn’t need help anymore. And I was able to do what I, what I wanted to do. So that’s, that’s how I started my law practice. Offices of Marc D Wasserman.
Rob Hanna (00:28:36):
Thank you so much for sharing that enlightening journey from sort of the bar, and that story. I thought you were going to say, when you went to the coffee shop, the owner was like, I’ve just lost my best customer for the last three and a half months now, what am I going to do? But anyway, good stuff. Fast forward a little bit. You did then join forces, um, with your big brother and became the pot brothers at law. Tell us a little bit more about the business and, and what it, what, what you focused on now.
Marc Wasserman (00:29:06):
Pot Brothers at Law was formed in 2015. In 2004 was when I had a partner for a few years, from 98 to 2004, we were the law offices of Wasserman and Mahia and he died of pneumonia. And then that’s when I moved my office into the suite where my brother was and we had, he law of Craig Wasserman, law of Marc Wasserman. He did, uh, but all business consulting and corporate counseling and worker’s compensation. And I was doing criminal defense and family law, but we were sharing office space and we were doing our separate things every once in a while we worked on things together. Then we fast forward past 2000, to 2009. My brother’s son, who’s known now as Jay Cures for, with a company called West Coast Cure, which is a very big cannabis company out here in California and throughout the States. And he showed a pension for a green thumb and a taste for cannabis at an early age because, my brother at the time I was going through a nasty divorce, ten year marriage, four kids? My nephew I’m referring to was the oldest. And at 13 years before that, he was having a lot of emotional problems as kids going through divorces do. And the doctors he was seeing wanted to shove opiates, Ritalin, and all sorts of sh*t in his mouth. And my brother wasn’t having any of that, went in the backyard one day and said, look, they want to give you these pills. I don’t want you to take pills. You want to chill out? Smoke this. And if you’re going to smoke this, we’ll do it in the backyard here. Don’t do it with your friends at school. And you know, you do it here. And we didn’t know it was going to lead to, you know, years later, 10 years down the road. Now he’s growing very good servicing cancer patients and AIDS patients, and you know, really doing it for these patients. And at that time here in California, you had to operate as a not-for-profit cooperative or a collective. And there were certain ways that you had to do things with your documentation and paperwork and payroll and taxes and all that. So that when you got busted with the felonies, because it’s a crime first, felony first, and then if you were able to prove you were doing it right, get the case dismissed. So over like a 10 year period, my nephew caught seven different felonies, a bunch of different cases. And we got them all dismissed because, it wasn’t because he was operating properly, that was like our, you know, you have your, your lines of defenses. Well, if we have to use that one, we’ll get to it. We never did. Cause we, we, we won at the cops are liars. They did an illegal search. And when they say, ‘Oh, he consented to a search’. I mean, you know what our motto is. Imagine my nephew who’s been told all his life, like he really? he’s gonna consent? And so, you know, we, we ended up beating those cases cause we prove through video and everything else and how the cops make up their lies. And when people shut the f**k up, we don’t have to deal with anybody else’s voice or language, just the cop weaving it himself annd then we can get them. And then we get the case dismissed. We were able to get all the product back because he was operating properly. So that, As I said, that was like back in the 2008, 2009 and all these cases we did for them Over the years. And then we get to, and then I didn’t even know whenever Instagram came out, it might’ve been 2012 or 13 or whatever it was my nephew. ‘You guys got to get on Instagram, You need to get on Instagram there’s people in cannabis are in there and you can help them’. And I looked at it and like, yeah, there’s pot, pictures of pot and t*ts. And I’m on Facebook. I, you know, I, this is anyway and we were like, get out of here. And so then we fast forward to January 22nd, 2015, that day we’ll live in my head forever because my nephew now Who jet sets all over the place with Snoop and Wiz Khalifa and he’s, and he’s been with those guys since they were, before they were who they were getting them, their meds and their cannibis when they came to California and stuff like that. And so he’ll pop into our office every, whenever he popped in this one day, Hey, I’ve got some friends who want to interview you guys and have you smoke and talk about, and this was in 2015, when in 2016 adult use was about to happen in California. So they wanted attorneys to come on this talk show, to talk about the laws and smoke with them. They couldn’t find any attorneys who would come on and smoke. So my nephews tells them my uncle and my dad will do it. My Brother didn’t, he was not happy about that. I was like, why’d you tell him that I’m not going to go smoke and then blah, blah, blah. And I was like, where do we go? I’m ready. Let’s go. Where’s the camera. Let’s go. And so Me and my brother had had a discussion about legalities and the fact that we have our medical cards here in California, we’re going to a private Facility or they allow it. We’re not breaking any laws. Let’s do it. Okay. When do we go? Right now? We have to go right now. We have to go up to Hollywood there’s studios and we have to go right now, my nephew. So, all right, we did it. And so what we found out was it was Be Real from Cypress Hill and his Be Real TV, internet show, a site that he has and a show called ‘Getting High with Adam’. And it wash an influencer who’s named Adam hill and out here, California and in the States, he’s a big, he’s one of the best known hosts of like cannabis events and things of that nature. And he’s doing all sorts of other things, but he, he brought us on, we went down there and brought us on this podcast and he was just a stoner, consumer, who’s like, when I’m driving around in a car, what should I do with my stuff? I don’t know, teach us. And we were doing everything that, that we are doing now, except there really wasn’t a script, the script, as it’s known now, it was just our, you can shut the f**k up, you know? And, and, and so, as we were taking and it ended up, they usually go an hour. We spent like three hours and calls were coming in and we’re smoking and again, my nephew goes, ‘you got to create an Instagram’. And so my brother took it upon himself, knowing nothing, nothing about social media to go create our Instagram account. So our Instagram account, Pot brothers at Law, our main Instagram account is Pot_brothers_@_law, which, because of my brother, I have to say that way now in forever, because when you create, and here’s the tip, if you don’t know, when you create your Instagram account, like my brother, did he put pot space brothers space when you hit that space bar, it creates the Underscore. So that became very annoying for me, as I do these things, I have to, I have to do that, but he created it. And at that point It was okay, what are we going to do with Instagram? You know, I have 5,000 friends on Facebook, which is the most they allow. And I had always used that. And I was right on top of that with my law practice and free it’s free advertising on these social media things. And so I needed to learn how to use Instagram and, you know, again, it was a platform and maybe we’ll get it A few new clients. We can teach some people things. And back then it was only 15 second videos. So we ended up creating what I call we called the 15 seconds tip of the day, which I ripped off from Tony Hornton of Beachbody Fame, P90X. I did all their workout programs and I have your tip of the day. So 15 second tip of the day. And we started with a series of 15 second tips on what to do when you get pulled over. And we were concentrating on cannabis users in California because we’re California attorneys and cannabis users get screwed with the most because of this Smell and all that. So that was our initial focus. And as we were teaching, just basically, you know, you shut the f**k up and say as little It’s possible, we were getting questions and, and people were gravitating to it, we had like 5,000 followers the first week on Instagram. So it’s like, wow, something’s going on here? I sat, I studied Instagram for a good two weeks and other things and just algorithm. And I, you know, just trying to figure out how, and what’s the best way for us to do this. And, you know, it ultimately led to, you know, Or posts a day and posting every three, four, you know, it was all very specific the way I was doing It in the beginning as we were growing. And Then as we were getting questions, well, what do I do if the cop says this? Well, what do I do with the cop? What happens this in there? And so that’s where we were like, we gotta come up with something that’s really just,simple, easy. And it was like 55 words we had first, you know, then, well, we can cut it down. And, you know, as attorneys brief, right, brief it be brief, Little as possible. And so we got it down to 25 words, ultimately over a period of time as we were growing with it and whats cool is we have our business cards that, you know, the first one, you know, has, you know, they’re different. They went through stages until we got what we felt, okay, this is it. These are the 25 words and you shut the f**k up. And the explosion through social media, while we built ourselves up from 2015 to December 25th, 2018, we had 120,000 followers, which in three years, a very good by all accounts, As I was seeing, watching other accounts and stuff like that. And people were like, wow, you guys are growing fast, growing fast. And so, because I had us on every single social media platform and I wasn’t pushing it, I just had presence, right. We created the accounts cause I figured we should just be everywhere. And I had different notification sounds set. So I don’t miss anything because For attorneys, one call, it’s all it takes In somebody who’s in jail that night, or they had a big accident, Whatever it is. So we, I Don’t want to miss any of it. So I have the different notification set and I had a Facebook page for us that had about 300 followers on it. And every two weeks or so, we’d go with a little message, Notification that somebody was had a question Or whatever. And so I’m on vacations December 25th, 2018. And my phone goes, ding ding ding ding ding ding ding, and it’s just not stopping. I never, I was like, my phone’s broken, what’s going on, but things were coming and I turned it off. I turned it on and it was still And get to my laptop. And I’m just Trying to find it’s being shared. It’s being liked. I’m trying to find, the Hell? And I finally find the page called ‘Respect my Region’, which at the time was like a small hip hop political page, guys ran it out of Seattle, Washington. And they reposted one of our videos are shut the. One of our shut the f**k up Friday videos that we started doing. And we talked about an illegal cannibis store that got raided. Three people work there. Two of them told the cops, I volunteer here. One of them follows shut the f**k up and we got that case dismissed. And that was re posted by Roger Stone. Do you know who Roger Stone is?
Rob Hanna (00:41:03):
Marc Wasserman (00:41:05):
Roger Stone is a huge political strategist here in the States who helped get Nixon elected and Reagan and the Bushes and Trump, and mwas sentenced to eight years for a bunch of sh*t. And then Trump commuted his sentence and he said, these guys should be my attorneys and re posted it. Now what’s funny about that is he never shuts the f**k up. Roger Stone and HBO did a, uh, did a great documentary on him. So if you Google it, Roger Stone and HBO, there’s a, there’s a great documentary on this guy. Uh, but him reposting it, then just, it got re posted and seen by everybody from Snoop to P Diddy, to Rapaport and there and Barstool sports. I never even heard of it. Now, all these other huge outlets that I never heard of before were just over, over, over. And so now, to date, that particular video has like five, 600 million views alone, and it still gets passed around.
Rob Hanna (00:42:13):
Marc Wasserman (00:42:13):
And that led to production companies calling us, Comedy Central, and Tosh and MTV and interviews, and, you know, we’re now in the process of shooting a docu-series. And it all started with that viral video, really going nuts and, teaching people, learning and remeber, as I said, we started this whole shut the f**k up, concentrating on California cannabis patients. And as soon as it is, it really started going. And we were like, you know, you’re right to shut the f**k up is all over the United States and for the fifth amendment, not just California. And then as we’ve learned through gentlemen like yourself and other barristers attorneys, counselors all over the world, that’s shutting the f**k up. When you’re dealing with law enforcement, it’s not a bad thing to do. So it’s been quite incredible. And the fact that we’ve trademarked the script and those words and shut the f**k up, it’s been a quite a journey.
Rob Hanna (00:43:17):
Come on on the Legally Speaking Podcast, let’s hear the script for anyone tuning in from the US let let’s have it.
Marc Wasserman (00:43:24):
How. Are, are you, do you know it yet?
Rob Hanna (00:43:27):
I am not fully versed. I will be in about a week’s time after what we’ll talk about clubhouse in a minute. So I didn’t want to get it wrong on the record so you go for it
Marc Wasserman (00:43:40):
I’m bring you in on our shut the f**k up Friday script challenge on Instagram to introduce you to everybody and you’ll have to do it. So do you. So this is what me and my brother usually I’ll do my brother’s part. We usually do this together. Um, and I actually, I do this every day. I call it the daily script review. And if you go to look at my Instagram and Snapchat stories and Facebook stories, it’s there. I do this at least once a day, sometimes more. And I urge everybody to do it. And it’s called the daily script review. And it’s this,’why did you pull me over? I’m not discussing my day. Am I being detained or my free to go? I invoked the fifth and you shut the f**k up’ Now that’s the daily script review. Now, when we do it with my brother, it goes, I’m the cop. Or when we do the script challenge, it’s just like this. I got somebody like yourself and our Instagram live I’m here. And I’m the cop I say, okay, at the cop, I pull you over. So what’s that smell in your car? You know, where are you going so fast? Why are you sweating? What are you nervous about? I there’s thousands of things to cop. And no matter what the cop says, you say, why did you pull me over? And the reason is because in the United States at a traffic stop, a cop has roughly eight to nine minutes to write you a traffic ticket and send you on your way, unless they find other independent probable cause to further detain you and do other things which usually comes about because you talk. So why? And I say that because just because a cop pulls you over, it doesn’t mean it’s a traffic stop. You know what, if your tires flat, what if, who knows? And cops will come up the real Sabbath, Hey, how you doing today? Nice hat you’re wearing. And they’ll just start bullshitting with you. As they’re looking at every crack and crevice of your car to try and determine how they can get into it. So you want to cut them right off. Why did you pull me over? And they tell you, you know, you were speeding and then comes to questions. What’s that smell how many drinks have you had? And again, it doesn’t matter, whatever they say, the easy route, the only responses I’m not discussing my day, officer, you’re very polite, very calm. And the fact of the matter is you don’t have to, it’s none of their business where you’re going or what you’re doing. I don’t tell my mom, why do I gotta tell a strange cop? You don’t, I’m not discussing my day. Then that’s where you’re going to find out which cop you got. You get the one who respect your rights and what you’re doing and they don’t see criminal activity jumping out at them. You get that ticket, you get that warning. They send you on your way. We get messages like that. Every day, successful scripts, stories, hashtags, successful script stories. And we post those all the time. But if you get that cop who hates that, you know your rights and you’re making this job harder and you think, you know, more than him and he’s got his complex, and he’s going to say what the fucks your problem. You can’t answer my question. You can’t just go operate with me. You can’t tell me. I’m just trying to keep people there. And no matter what he asked you then, am I being detained? Or am I free to go? Because then now he’s, they got that decision to make. And am I gonna really detained this person. I don’t see anything going on. They know their rights. They’re not going to talk. That’s when we hope you get, let go, or again, the cop know you’re detained, you know, get out of the car. They asked you, you out the car, you get out of the car, you put your hands behind your back. And I will say this about cooperating. When cops try to use that tactic to trick you, you’re not cooperating. You are cooperating. You saw the light, you pulled over, cooperating. You turned your engine off, cooperating, handed your license, insurance and registration. You cooperated. Answering questions is not acquate to cooperating with the cops. It acquates to telling on yourself andtalking when you don’t have to, but that’s their face. You’re not cooperating with me. You don’t have talk. And so once they say you’re detained, then you have to say, I invoke the fifth. Because again, here in the States, I invoke the fifth under case law. Our great Supreme court has opine that you must speak in order to invoke your right to be silent by explicitly stating I invoke the fifth. And then no matter what the cop say, do, scare, threaten you. All of it. You shut the f**k up and that’s it. And that’s the script. And so the daily script review, I just created the daily script review challenge, where I’m challenging people to do it faster than me.why did you pull me over? I’m not discussing my day. Am I being detained or my free to go? I invoked the fifth and you shut the f**k up .
Rob Hanna (00:48:27):
I’m going to take you on that challenge. So when I come onto your Instagram, I’m going to try and take you on for that challenge. But, um, thank you so much for sharing that Marc. And you have had huge social media success, and you’re a massive advocate for that. I think you’ve got over a hundred million followers worldwide. You’ve done everything you’re everywhere. So everyone should definitely follow you. I do want to ask what’s your position on legalizing other drugs?
Marc Wasserman (00:48:52):
I think all drugs should be legal. I think that people should be able to put whatever they want in their bodies, and if they want to kill themselves over it, don’t kill other people, you know? But, and then that’s where the problem is with, with addicted drug users and stuff like that. But I do believe as Hunter Thompson did that, if you legalize all drugs, I don’t think we’d have the problems that we have. People want to do what they can’t do, you know? And so, but, but that’s why I think all drugs should, I think it all should be legal.
Rob Hanna (00:49:31):
Okay. And then you’ve been really vocal on clubhouse recently, and you’ve been educating a lot of people on why they should stop calling cannabis, such as weed, marijuana. Did you want to tell our listeners more about that and why it’s important? I know you touched on adult use earlier as well.
Marc Wasserman (00:49:49):
Yes. Yes. I’m glad you brought that up because you know, you go back to the 1930s guy named Harry Anslinger and the way they demonized cannabis. When you look at the dictionary definition, it’s sativa L, Cannabis. Cannabis. And so they use, they use the term in the 1930s, marijuana 32, I think it was marijuana tax act marijuana. And they spelled it with an H to put it over with the minorities and demonize it and give them a means and a way to arrest these people. And that’s when all the, all of it started and the negative stigma calling it that and marijuana and weed and all that. That’s just what it is now. And so it’s so much part of the vernacular that, and recreational, that’s the worst. That’s the dirtiest word for cannabis as far as I’m concerned, because it’s not a recreational drug, it’s just not, it’s a plant. That’s a medicine that was before it was demonized. You go back centuries being used for, to build houses and cars and all sorts of things. Hemp can be used for when you talk about cannabis and its derivatives. And when we are advocating for this change and for laws to change the people who make these laws, the idiots who are archaic and aren’t doing what the will of the people cause in the, in, in United States, the VA, I think it’s like upwards of 70%. Now that want it at least medicinally. And that’s, that’s a whole other issue, but they’re their representatives. Aren’t doing it. They’re not doing what the people say. They’re not bowing to the will of the people. And when we talk to these legislatures and the people who are supposed to do this, when they hear words and I, I yell at Congressman and doctors and scientists who talked to who have the communication with these people. And I hear them say, yeah, well with the marijuana go, no, no, no, no. When you say marijuana, when you say recreational to these people, it furthers that negative stigma, especially recreational, because where do you go in the world to a bar and say, can I have my recreational beer please? I don’t know of a place. And it’s adult, you’re an adult. You can use it period. And so for instance, in California, we have now what is called the adult use medical cannabis, regulation, safety act. When they came out with it, it was the recreational medical marijuana act, activists and advocates like myself and others were up in arms. You’re not calling it marijuana. You’re not calling it recreation. Recreational is where the kids go to play at the rec center. Kids do this recreational. I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s the horrible part about it. And when we talk to those people who are making decisions, and we further that vernacular, we’re not going to get anywhere and we’re not going to change their minds because they’re recreational. And I don’t know how we go backwards, but it never even should have been a divide. It should have never been called medical cannabis because now you’re differentiating and anybody using cannabis, I don’t care if it’s an 18 year old kid going ‘I’m getting high with my friends’. You are medicating and you don’t even know it. And you’re self-medicating period and the THC and the CBD is helping your body in so many different ways. You know, it shouldn’t be that distinction , but it is. And we’ve got to steer clear of those words and just using word cannabis and adult use, especially when we’re talking to somebody who still believes in reefer madness and the devil’s lettuce.
Rob Hanna (00:53:57):
Thank you so much for sharing that Mark. And you’re doing a great job to use your voice, particularly through all of your social media platforms. And I just want to quickly, before we wrap up, talk a little bit more about your radio talk show, because that’s just gone through the, through the roof with success Cannibis Talk 101. So can you tell us a bit more about that and why do you use decided to branch into a radio show?
Marc Wasserman (00:54:17):
Yeah, that’s a so, wow. I think towards the end of 2015 or 2016, a blue Christopher Wright who had created cannabis talk one Oh one came to us for a legal problem that we helped him with. And the first meeting in our office, he was like, you guys want to be on a talk show because I created a radio show. It’s on a small FM radio station and it’s called Cannabis Talk 101. I had another attorney, but it didn’t work out. And me and my brother looked at each other and we’re like, Oh, I know what do we have to do? Would show up and talk. I can do that. And so we did that and Cannabis Talk 101 just, it took off. So we went from 2016, 2019, we signed a partnership deal with iHeart media to become the only cannabis podcast to be partnered with iHeartMedia or any big media conglomerate. All these podcast shows and things that are on different platforms. You can put a podcast anywhere, right? You can create it in your base and put it anywhere. And that’s great. We love all those, but we are distinguished because I, heart is pushing us and you go to, you know, all their am and FM radio stations around the, around the country and our commercials are playing and we’re being pushed. And we’re now heard in 126 countries, which right now we’re very proud of considering we signed that deal towards the end of 2019 with our big launch date 420, 2020, at 4:20 PM at the iHeart studio amphitheater with, I mean, it didn’t matter who was going to be there. And we, we, we ended up launching, uh, we there’s four of us, me and my brother, Blue and Big Joe Grande day are, are, we’re all close. And we were all at home on zoom. And that’s how we launched. And, you know, in the midst, I think it was, uh, iHeart lost 80% of their ad revenue, right during, during the pandemic as everything folded. But we powered through and we seemingly have come out on the other side. Our downloads are, you know, up, up, up, and we’re in all these different countries. We’re interviewing a lot. You know, we recently interviewed Tommy Chong and Santana and bunch of sports stars and athletes and doctors, and, and really trying to normalize all of this and, and really get it out there. It’s why we touted as to CNN Fox news, the view, except it’s for guys. Although we do have our new segment, the women of cannabis, we have two, two great gals, Janine, Christine, and they have a segment where they talk about all the women that are doing major things in cannabis and in the industry. So yeah, cannabis talk, one-on-one on iHeart radio, Apple podcast, wherever you get your podcasts, you can catch it. We drop new shows every day, Monday through Friday. And it’s a, it’s a lot of fun we have when we don’t have guests, we have four distinct segments. My brother does cannabis news and is always talking about a new congressperson or Senator or somebody who supports cannabis. And we need more of that. Right. And then, uh, our creator and code blue does, who’s making waves in the industry all about who’s up there. What influencers are, who’s really doing big things. Joe Grande does go green, which is all about the stocks and the business and the, all the different mergers going on. And just as you know, there’s just every day, there’s something happening in the business world with cannabis as well. And then of course the best segment And I get when Cannabis goes bad. And those are stories that I ripped from the headlines around the world, or from consultation calls or cases that I handle where cannabis is involved and something horrible happens. But what I like to point out when I read these headlines, you all, you know, and every time I do an article or I do a story, I cross out marijuana and I put the word cannabis and I use the word cannabis and all of these headlines, Oh, big drug bust, 15 pounds of marijuana. Right. But then you read the story and there was a hundred pounds of cocaine and three Uzis and all this other shit, but the headline is about cannabis. Which is another way they are demonizing it and keeping it at the forefront of reefer madness. So I like to do those articles and really point out that hiphop like, why is that the headline when all this other shit is there. And then when we have guests, we do, what’s called our cannabis talk high five questions.
Rob Hanna (00:59:17):
Final question, because I’m sure our listeners will want to know. And I can’t remember if they’re everything we’ve discussed, whether we’ve gone through it. So what is the current position on cannabis use in California? Can you provide us with a little overview of the actual law?
Marc Wasserman (00:59:31):
Absolutely. If you are, if you are under 21, you cannot possess use or you cannot possess or use it if you’re under 21, unless you have a physician’s recommendation from a doctor. So if you have a physician’s recommendation, if you’re 18 to 21, you can get one from a doctor by yourself. If you’re, if you’re under 18, you need your parent’s consent and signature along with the doctor. Now, if you don’t, if you have a physician’s recommendation, you are allowed to smoke wherever anybody else is smoking their cigars, cigarettes or anything else, unless you are a thousand feet from a school or youth facility, you’re in a no-smoking zone, you’re in a motor vehicle that’s operating while operating a boat or on a school bus. So if you have that physician’s recommendation in California, these are the only five places you can’t smoke. Now, if you’re 21 and older, you are only allowed to purchase and possess up to one ounce and you cannot smoke it anywhere in public. You have to be at someone’s private facility or private house. Or there are a few States that are starting to finally have lounges where people can go, you know, we need more of those, but it’s really horrible. You, you really, as an adult, without that physician’s recommendation, you can not smoke it anywhere. You gotta be very careful about that. And with the physician’s recommendation, you can purchase and carry up to eight ounces versus one ounce. And I, and I leave everybody with this too. So it ain’t legal, there’s limits on the legalities. And if you fly with it, it’s a felony. And while the vast majority of people get away with it, there are plenty of people who don’t and we represent them and there’s, you’re cutting deals and trying to keep them out of jail. So know your rights, know the laws whenever you’re flying or, or using wherever you’re at, because they differ from state to state and country to country.
Rob Hanna (01:01:51):
Thank you so much for sharing that. Marc. It’s been amazing pleasure having you on the show. So I just want to finally ask if people want to get in touch about anything they’ve discussed today, what’s the best platform for them to do that. And please also make a shout out for your referral scheme. I think that’s great. So, yeah. Shout out any relevant web links and tell us more about your referral links and social media handles.
Marc Wasserman (01:02:14):
Thank you. So our big, our big pages, our Instagram it’s pot_brothers_@_law underscore. And then, uh, we are on all social media platforms, including Tik TOK, LinkedIn, YouTube, Facebook, Snapchat, all of them. So you can follow us on all those and see all of our educational content that we plaster everywhere. Our main website, pot email@example.com. And you can find all of our other legal information there. We do sell a merch, hashtag STFU stuff, hats shirts, stickers that’s at P ball, merck.com, PBA L mertz.com. And we also jumped into finally after years of trying products and telling companies, no, we found the place that we’ve worked for, both me and my brother pot firstname.lastname@example.org. So if you have pain, arthritis,your old fucks like us, the rubs and the gummies and pets product for your pets for CBD, we finally hooked up with a good place. So that’s something else we’re doing pop brothers in Los cbd.com and clubhouse clubhouse is three weeks, three or four weeks in now, myself and we’ve created well. We already had the worldwide attorney referral network through all of our other social media platforms. But now on clubhouse, you can join the attorney referral network. Couldn’t fit the whole thing in there. They give you a little bit of space in that, in that headlight. So the attorney referral network and what that is, we get calls because of our social media messages, direct messages, all over our different social media platforms from people around the world with legal problems, not just cannabis, not just criminal defense, just we’ve become some law firm that people know and trust. And we get calls. Hey, do you know somebody who does family law? Do you know somebody who’s just, you know, somebody in Timbuktu, do you know somebody in Russia? Do you know somebody in Moldova? I mean, everywhere, UK. And so we created the system so we can refer people to good honest attorneys, wherever they are throughout the world. So if you’re an attorney and you’re, and you’re watching this link up with us, we do a quick zoom meet and, you know, vet people out to make sure that, you know, we’re on the same page. Haven’t met an attorney yet through clubhouse that I haven’t liked or put on, put on the referral list. Uh, so that’s something that we’re Really proud of now. And just trying to connect attorneys with people who need help. And we’ve been doing it almost every day, um, through with the help of clubhouse. And if anybody out there wants to just say hi and talk to us eight, five, five, Wasslaw if you have a legal problem and you want to connect to us that way you can get us.
Rob Hanna (01:05:12):
Thank you so much, Marc. It’s been a real pleasure having you on the Legally Speaking Podcast. I’ve really enjoyed learning about your journey, your mission, what you’re trying to do. I wish you lots of continued success, but from all of us on the show for now over and out.
Marc Wasserman (01:05:27):
Rob Hanna (01:05:29):
This week’s review comes from JTC_FF, JTC_FF says ‘engaging and relevant. Rob is fantastic at drawing out a wide variety of people from the profession and allowing listeners to get a better understanding of the legal industry and its many facets. This is innovative and informative. I absolutely love a bit of flattery. So thank you so so much for your kind words, JTC_FF. It really means a lot. Make sure to leave a review on Apple podcasts, if you want the chance to be given our shout out next week.
Robert Hanna (01:06:07):
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Legally Speaking Podcast, if you enjoyed the show and want to help support us, remember to leave us a rating and review on Apple iTunes, you can also support the show and gain exclusive benefits, bonus content, and much more by signing up to our Patreon page, which is www.patreon.com/legallyspeakingpodcast. Thanks for listening.