“The organisations that will thrive in 2027 will not be the ones with the most policies. They’ll be the ones that read them or act on them.” – Dr Lucy Mather

On today’s episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr Lucy Mather. She is a GP, women’s health specialist, and menopause expert with more than 20 years of experience. She is the founder of Jaya Life, a women’s hormone health clinic, and brings deep clinical insight into the real impact menopause can have on women’s wellbeing, careers, and confidence. 

Our conversation is about how menopause is far more than a health issue — it’s a workplace, leadership and retention issue too. We discussed how women can be seriously affected by symptoms like brain fog, sleep disruption, anxiety, hot flushes and low confidence, and how that can quietly hold back brilliant people at the peak of their careers. Lucy also explained why employers need to take this seriously now: not just because of the coming menopause action plan expectations, but because supporting women properly is simply the right thing to do.

So why should you be listening in? 

You can hear Rob and Lucy discussing:

– Menopause: a Workplace Leadership Issue

– How Sleep and Mental Health Affect Performance

– Why Supportive Policies Improve Retention And Trust

– Managers Needing Confidence and Training

– Preventing Talent Loss by Offering the Right Support at the Right time.

Connect with Dr Lucy Mather here – https://uk.linkedin.com/in/dr-lucy-mather-2548161a

Transcript

We’re all in this together but actually what we need to do is all move forward from this point of view. 

Some women really struggle to get decent timely support that they deserve and need really to keep them in the workplace. 

It’s all about communication and not being scared. It’s a normal thing. Let’s just open the conversation up, normalise it, improve communication and I think once staff realise that you had training in it as a senior leadership team, they then might feel more confident to then come to talk to you about it.

On today’s Legally Speaking podcast, I’m delighted to be joined by Dr. Lucy Mather. Lucy is a GP women’s health specialist doctor and menopause expert with more than 20 years of experience. She has completed specialist training with the British Menopause Society and is passionate about helping women take control of their health. Today we’re exploring one of the most important workplace issues facing employers, leaders, and legal professionals today.

Menopause is not simply a well-being conversation, it is increasingly becoming a leadership conversation. Today we’ll discuss what a menopause action plan looks like, how menopause intersects with discrimination and workplace law, and why employers need to act now ahead of 2027. So a very big warm welcome to the show, Lucy. Hello, hi. lovely to be here. Thank you for having me on your show.

it’s an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. And before we dive in, we’ve got a couple of quick bar icebreaker questions for you. Firstly, what is your favorite beverage and what is your preferred choice of footwear on a typical work day? gosh. okay, so preferred beverage. So I think on a working day, water and coffee to get me through the day. less coffee now that I’m a postmenopausal woman. on a non work day.

Perhaps well, evenings masala chai, but not shop bought. And I’d say gint tonic, ’cause it reminds me of being on holiday. Like it, like it. And footwear on a typical work day? footwear. so it depends whether I’m clinically working or not. if I’m at home working, I try and have work footwear that’s not home footwear, so avoid the slippers.

so Indian sandals actually. So a nice pair of leather Kalapori Indian sandals, but not from Prada. And I think if I’m at work just very boring normal shoes that you don’t get any needle stick injuries from if you drop anything on your feet. Practical. Like it. Okay. What what’s one piece of technology or everyday technology you now rely on that you would not have think unbelievably

possible early in your career that you’d be using? Heidi, the platform Heidi. So I don’t know, you might not know this. It’s so basically in the medical world there’s a platform called Heidi that’s really taken off, which is over the voice recognition software platform. and how that works is it records your consultations and then it allows you to then pull that into clinical notes and write clinical letters, do your referral letters. So

My consultations in clinical practice are very long and so this has saved me a significant amount of time. And it’s also really accurate. So that’s the newest on the landscape, but really good. Love it. Well, here’s to Heidi and here’s to you. And let’s get into your your your career journey then. Could you give us a bit of a short version of your journey from training obviously medical school to becoming a GP and then a woman’s health specialist? yeah. So I’ve been a doctor for twenty five years, so I’m quite old now.

I’ve been at GP for twenty. So originally I trained qualified at Birmingham Medical School. I trained in pediatrics. I did my membership in PEDs for five years. Then I left partly because of the political landscape, which I think’s not really changed very much in the NHS. and then I’ve been at GP, really a women’s health doctor, for twenty years now. So I work mainly in Manchester clinically in terms of general practice. I’ve been a partner.

I’ve been salary GP, I’ve been clinical leads for several practices, but in addition to that I’m a GP appraiser, so I appraise GPs. I work at Manchester Med School, doing clinical tutoring for medical students, and I I was the clinical lead for Iris, which is Manchester’s domestic abuse service. Well Iris is all over the country, but it’s fantastic organisation. Left that role a couple of years ago. and then work privately in the women’s health space. So I do that part time as part of my working week.

worked for a quite a large private organisation for a while and then left and set up GIA Life, which is a women’s hormone health clinic. Mainly in North Wales is my in-person clinics, but I do online appointments as well and I deliver training all about women’s hormone health and women’s health to all different types of organisations.

So that’s twenty five years in a nutshell. Very well done. Very impressive. And sort of going to that then, was there a particular moment or experience ins inspiring you to specialise in women’s health and menopause care? I’ve always been a a feminist, if I’m honest. I was I’m one of three s four sisters. I’ve got four three sisters, so I’m one of four girls. my father is very much he’s a G P.

and he’s very much you have to stand on your own two feet financially as a woman, you have to be able to you know, be independent. So that’s always been our sort of family mantra suppose. And I’ve always been a sort of women’s health advocate because I just fundamentally believe that if the women in the world are not well, then society doesn’t move forward. I think for me in terms of when I started the Irish clinical role, so delivering the training for domestic abuse to

GPUs across the whole of Manchester. That was a real light bulb moment. I did eight years delivering training all about domestic abuse to primary care services so that they could recognise and improve recognition of domestic abuse and then refer into our Irish service and then we could support women and men to manage abusive condition you know, abuse that they were living with, but also to move forward with their lives. So that was a really important, I think.

change of direction for me in terms of women’s health and really understanding the importance of the holistic healthcare. And then when after COVID came, COVID was a very difficult time in medicine in general practice. So we were juggling, you know, homeworking, in person, in you know, face to face working practice.

managing a you know an awful awful time and then I got COVID and I was really quite poorly after that and I acutely went into the menopause. So I didn’t have a period when I when I had COVID and then none since and that’s sort of six years ago. So I was young, I was relatively young, 44, and with no real sort of perimenopausal symptoms. And it was from that point then I was just like, okay, I get it. I understand like what this means, how poorly you can feel

I was off work for a period of time. And I think that really galvanized my sort of drive to, you know, setting up GI Life, really. But I’m a real believer in in-person medicine. So I think although everything’s online this recording’s online, I still think there’s a real role to have a an in-person clinic setting. Yeah, and you you’re doing such great work and you know it’s such an important topic and obviously it cuts across every industry, of course, not just obviously

legal. And that’s why it was so important for us to to have the conversation because, you know, the menopause is becoming a significant workplace topic, even more so in recent years. As you’ve sort of referenced there, we’ve had COVID, various other things going on in the world. And menopause has become a significant topic of discussion. I think from spring twenty six, employers correct me if I’m wrong, with

Two hundred and fifty or more employees are being asked to design, implement and report a menopause action plan with expectations of this becoming mandatory in twenty twenty seven. So why do you think organisations are paying much closer attention now than perhaps they may have been even five years ago? There’s several reasons really. I mean, obviously it there’s nothing like a little bit of a push from the government to sort of galvanize the thought processes, isn’t it? I think

Obviously women are in the workplace, so women are are also pushing for this agenda for change politically as well, which is really important. Social media has completely got hold of this, hasn’t it? for good and bad, there’s a lot of misinformation on social media but also a lot of great work that’s done out there as well.

think if you’re looking you know the in the terms of the law obviously because this is a a law podcast isn’t it you know you’ve got sort of one in four women are of menopausal age so if we take forty five onwards but really lots of women can go into the menopause earlier than that. And so from a legal sort of professional point of view that’s your senior talent pipeline isn’t it really? So we know that one in ten women will consider or will leave the workplace when they get to that point in life. So

from a personal you know, woman’s perspective, that’s significantly impactful in terms of finance as well. So we’re looking at sort of gender payer gap as well. And we know that women say that they lack support in the workplace as well. So from a law firm point, only about sort of less than twenty five percent of law firms have a menopause policy in place that sort of works. And we know that basically one to one support for your team is almost non existent. And it’s very difficult at the moment to get

good care sometimes across the NHS. It’s very patchy. I mean there’s some fantastic GPs out there and I work alongside many of them. But it’s also some women really struggle to get decent timely support that they deserve and need really to keep them in the workplace.

You’re touching on the scale of the challenge there and you know, when we were researching this this episode, you know, I think eighteen percent of women say their workplace has a menopause policy. one in ten women leave work because of the menopause. Only seventeen percent have considered leaving due to a lack of support. So what do these figures really tell us about the current state then of the workplace support? I think it

tells us it’s incredibly varied and it depends on your sort of senior leadership team whether they take this forward, this sort of challenge really to improve this landscape that women are working in. I in clinically when I sit in clinic and when I deliver training, women don’t feel supported or they don’t feel that they can talk openly about their symptoms. Lots of women sort of try just to get through the working day. They might feel incredibly poorly.

They don’t prioritize their health and wellbeing. They don’t put themselves first, you know, because well they don’t. Women don’t. and I think it i i from a financial perspective as well, from a business perspective, you know, if you’re losing your sort of really people who are really good at their job, and financially has huge impact with respect to well, legal law firms, but all firms as well. You know, you’ve you’ve trained these people up to be really good at their job, they’re really at the peak of their career, they’re they’re the best they can be.

And then they’re unwell and then not functioning in as well as they can do really. So and that can be for many different symptoms really, many different reasons, like lack of sleep, mental health issues, you know, cognitive clarity, concentration, focus, brain fog, word finding problems, but also physical symptoms, muscle joint aches and pains.

hot flushes, you know, there’s nothing like having a hot flush in the middle of a really important meeting where you feel that, you know, you’re meant to be standing up presenting in front of people and you’re sweating. It’s really, you know, debilitating for a woman really. And then also things like urinary symptoms as well that can impact women’s health, you know, urinary tract infections, there’s loads of different reasons that women’s sort of health and well being and their ability to do their job is impacted really.

And thank you for giving such you know rich context because it does go beyond, like you say, a a health and wellbeing point of view issue, particularly as in terms of the the business leaders and people actually operating here. You’re infecting your star talent ultimately. And you know, you’re particularly in the legal world, your product is your your people, so you should try your best to absolutely support, uplift them through all p stages of their not just entering their li profession, but all the way through.

And let’s talk about the workplace reality then. Again, when we’re looking into this, and that’s what’s so important for us to have today’s discussion, research suggests fifty-three percent of women have been unable to work at points due to menopause symptoms, and you’ve obviously listed a number there previously, while almost half do not disclose the real reason for absence. So what are some of the most common workplace challenges existed by women going through the menopause that employers often fail to recognise that we could help educate them on?

I think mental health at the moment. I think, you know, we’ve we’ve done a real broad brush on mental health in the workplace. So we have, you know, mental health champions, people who are trained to recognise mental health symptoms, but the connection with the fact that that women who struggle with mental health, I’d say any any woman who struggles with mental health, you need to ask, Is this hormonally related struggle? So is it related to the cycle?

things like PMDD, I see a lot of women who have premenstrual dysphoric disorder, which can happen at i at any age isn’t isn’t a menopausal issue. but I think mental health anxiety, that’s sort of imposter syndrome. The the the women retract from society, they don’t go out, they have body image issues because sometimes they they can put on weight or often do put on weight. A lot of this sort of knee-jerk reaction to society now is, you know, go and see a GP

They might talk about the menopause, they might not, they might not recognise this, especially in women who are going through menopause at a younger age. And then the knee-jerk reaction, here’s some antidepressants, off you go, go and have some counselling. And actually, really, what you need is a decent conversation around supporting you. One to recognise that it’s related to hormones, and two, to give you the all the treatment options that are available to you to get you in a better place. And it’s actually

it’s not not difficult medicine, you know, there’s lots of nuances to it, but what we do is we put it on the backbone and we don’t access help or care. We don’t come you know, we don’t make it a timely appointment, or we can’t make a timely appointment ’cause you maybe work’s a bit of a blocker, or you say, I’ll do it I’ll do it another day, I’ll do it another time, I’ll do it when I’m on holiday, etcetera And so you sort of you know, you just sort of wait, hopefully it’ll get better, I’ll have a bit of counselling. And often they put it down to other things. So, you know

Jobs are stressful, aren’t they? Relationships can be very, very difficult. Kids can be a complete nightmare. You know, you might be looking after an elderly relative. So all of these things are sort of imploding on you and and you know, making you feel unwell. And then you don’t recognise the bottom line, which is actually it’s hormonally driven as well. So I always say to women, you know, look ten years ago and life would have been tricky ten years ago, you would have been, you know, doing professional exams maybe.

you know, jumping through a load of hoops in person and professional lives. But if you were able to cope with it then, what’s changed? And if it’s actually, you know, more menopausally driven, then actually we let’s thought that out first and then see what’s left and then see how we can help to unpack what else is going on in life really. So I think mental health from from a professional point of view, but also

Sleep. Sleep’s a big issue for women. So they wake two, three o’clock in the morning, you know, and then they can’t go back to sleep. And then that has ma massive sort of ramifications in terms of work, life, motivation, wanting to exercise, wanting to sort of carry on, you know, they just drag themselves through the day. It’s gonna be really, really hard.

I’m a massive advocate for sleep. I’m I really do try to double down on eight hours, even with a a a young young daughter, as demanding as that can be, because it it really does, you know, affect performance and everything that you’ve just mentioned. And and and we’ve had and do as much work as we can to raise awareness, particularly in the legal world around mental health. We’ve had the former CEO of Law Care, the largest

mental health charity for lawyers come on. And you like you’re saying, the British Association, I understand for counseling and obviously psychotherapy has reported almost two-thirds of women over fifty are struggling with their mental health. So we appreciate you highlighting that and all the great work you’re doing. And that will be hormone usually, not always, but hormonely driven. So lots of women who have perhaps undiagnosed things like ADHD, perhaps autism, you know, high functioning, doing very well in the workplace.

then go through perimenopause and menopause hormonal changes and it all unravels. Then they b they present with with with significant mental health symptoms. So suicidality, anxiety, depression, lots of different mental health sort of manifestations really of it. So yeah, it and it can be difficult for managers to recognise that or feel that they can openly talk about it with people as well because you you’re afraid, aren’t you perhaps sometimes of saying the wrong thing or

Inferring that it might be something when it’s not. Or maybe that person who is it your employee doesn’t recognise that it’s menopause. I I hear that a lot. They don’t recognise it’s going on, but the manager does, ’cause the manager might be you female and might bump through it themselves, might be a bit more well versed in it as well. So yeah, there’s lots of different presentations really. And you know, everybody’s different.

Isn’t there as well? I think that’s another key key point to to mention. You know, you there’s not just some one big broad brush with with this as well. I think that’s where employers, if they can take the time to really understand their people, you know, the far better that’ll be received, particularly as people, you know, go through different stages of life with with various different things going on. coming to a sort of bit of a legal point now, how does the menopause intersect with employment law and discrimination law in practice? So I’m sure there’s lots of people listening on this podcast who have a better ability to talk about that than I do. But basically

So the menopause action plan was brought in place, like you said. It’s the it’s a new legal policy development in terms of UK employment. it’s mandatory. Well it’s not mandatory at the moment, but it will be next year if you have more than two hundred and fifty employees, and I’m sure lots of your people listening to this know know this. So menopause itself isn’t part of the act in terms of you know, isn’t seen as a

I think it’s a discrimination as you say, but but it’s recognised that obviously, you know, there’s lots of ways that it might fit in in terms of sex and female and age as well and disability. So if you’re unwell with these symptoms for over twelve months, so there’s lots of reasons why it might sort of go into those spaces and there’s been sort of tribunals around that as well, in terms of employment tribunals as well, with respect to menopause being brought in as a reason. So yeah, I think in it it it it does it does fit into the landscape.

But I think it’s just in terms of now, in terms of the the changes and in base with the Manipour’s you know action plan, hopefully that will improve people’s knowledge and understanding because they’re having to look about their policies that they have in place in the workplace and make sure they’re really that they’re up to date and they’re working and that they’re proactively understood. training within the team as well, so managers training, you know, training of your senior leadership team.

and then looking at sort of training of your staff so that people feel more confident to openly talk about these things and also recognise how they can access help and support really. So and then looking at reasonable adjustments within the workplace as well. So what can you do to support your women whilst they’re going through this? And it isn’t just a fan or a change in uniform, although they can be helpful, but things like access to toilets, you know, in terms of if you’re having heavy bleeding.

but also access to actually being able to contact your GP and your doctor, which can be tricky for some people as well. And also ideally, timely, decent support. So if you’re an organisation that can afford it, you know, looking at your private healthcare plan. So unfortunately it’s not covered through things like BUPA in terms of private healthcare do not cover

the menopause because all women go through it but that’s a a complete another legal entity within itself isn’t it really whether you agree with that or not. But they’ll cover the ramifications of it. So they’ll cover the cardiovascular event and they’ll cover your osteoporotic fracture and the and that later on down the line when you fall over and break your hip. But you know, they don’t cover it as a thing. So accessing that means unfortunately paying private healthcare or seeing a GP and GPs are can be very, very good at supporting women. But what a lot of women want is time

With you to talk through everything that’s going on with their lives so they can unpack everything and then and then make a plan and they want really timely access to appointments really. That’s what they’re crying out for at the moment. Today’s episode is brought to you by Clio. If you’re spending more time managing your practice than practicing law, it’s time for a change. Clio is the intelligent legal work platform built for modern solicitors.

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Visit Clio.com forward slash UK to find out why thousands of UK solicitors trust Clio. Now back to the show. What do you think are some of the biggest misconceptions employers have when it comes to their legal obligations around the menopause? I suppose that they don’t want to get it wrong. so perhaps they won’t talk about it because they don’t want they fear the thing of, you’re blaming it on the menopause. So it’s those are the nuances of the conversation really as well, isn’t it?

And the Manipause Action Plan itself is only for 250 employees or more, but the idea really is hopefully it’ll be a trickle down effect, won’t it? And other employees employers will hope that they’ll take it on board because that’s all about talent and retention of your talent, isn’t it really? You know, if you’re seen as a good employer who supports people if you are going through all different changes of life, then hopefully you’ll be able to re recruit the best people for the job really.

I don’t know what they’re afraid of. I don’t know why they’re afraid of of the menopause and women’s health. You know, it’s a condition. All women go through it if they’re lucky and fortunate enough to get to that age. It can be treated, it can be supported and you can get your staff back to working how they were before and and being really good at their job. So I’m not really sure why we’re afraid of it at all. but I suppose it’s maybe just that they tiptoe around it because they don’t want to offend people or don’t want to blame people.

or don’t want to be fear that they’re blaming people when actually maybe there’s something else going on at work that’s causing these issues. And and they need to listen to people like yourself and and podcasts like this that that that you know tell them that, right? And you know, that there’s nothing to be to to be fearful of. And that’s why we want to get these messages out there so we can create better work environments. You know, a lot of what we talk around is around the careers within within the legal profession and obviously this has a huge impact on on careers. And we’ve talked throughout around sort of support and

Some aspects of this, but maybe just to hammer the the message home. What are the hidden business costs when organizations really fail to support employees experiencing the menopause? What are things you see time and time again? well, time and time again, so presented some being at work but really not doing your job as well as you should be doing or as well as you can do, that you know that you can do. So I think women they go to work, especially with homeworking.

you know you’re present but you’re perhaps not cognitively getting through the workload as you can. Lots of women do things, you double check, they work very long hours because they’re double checking their work, they’re maybe not, you know, quite on it. And that has a cost of vacation to the to the firm, so say a law firm in terms of you know, securing new clients, you know, finishing deals, etcetera. I think being off work, if women are off work, that’s a huge cost to a say legal firm, isn’t it? You know, in terms of

I don’t know, it depends what your rates are, but a thousand to two and a half thousand pounds a day if you’re not really if you’re not in work and you’re not billing those hours really. I think f leaving work early. So loads of women I see in clinic sadly have reduced their hours or taken early retirement and and you’re really at fifty five or fifty, obviously if financially you want to and that’s your choice, that’s absolutely fine, but

Many women don’t want to leave their jobs and work. They want to carry on working, but they just don’t feel physically able to. So they don’t go for promotion. So some of your best talent are not going for promotions that they can and should be going for, and that has then again financial impacts, doesn’t it? and if they’re leaving work, then you’re then you’re losing one of the probably some of the best people within your firm, aren’t you? and I think that

You know, it’s just it’s just incredibly sad. I see it all the time in clinic. You know, women are either off work, they’ve reduced their hours, they’ve taken voluntary redundancy or or sorry, early retirement, or they’ve just not gone for pr to pr for promotions. And those are all if you have sort of fifty percent of your workforce or more are women.

you know, and one in four lawyers are sort of a menopausal age. If you just think about that and scale that up, it’s a huge, huge financial impact to law firms and businesses globally really. Yeah, and you you you hit hit it there, which is where I was going to go next. That that figure of one in four lawyers now at menopause age, you know, often holding those senior positions within firms or indeed in house legal counsel, general counselors in legal departments. So we’ve talked a lot around the issues, let’s flip it to a sort of

positive perspective using your experience and perhaps organizations that have done a good job of this. How could law firm leaders listening to this better support their employees? you know, we’ve talked about why they should be paying attention to it, but is there any practical, tactical things you would encourage them to do? So I think first of all, look at your who have you got in your workforce and be really from an HR point of view, who are who are in your firm, who’s in your team, what are their ages, you know, what’s their gender mix?

And think really critically about could these women be impacted by that? Are we missing that? and then I would look to see whether you have actually have a menopause policy in place and you know, do you know where it is? Have you read it? Do does everybody else know where it is? Is it up to date? Is it relevant to your current workforce? do you have sort of support

in place so delivering of training really which is part of the menopause action plan. So, you know, like myself going into organisations to do talks and events on women’s hormone health and on how to recognise all of the different symptoms, realise all the different treatments that are available and also as a team, how do you talk to your staff about that? how do you carefully sort of broach and and manage those conversations really.

cry menopause cafes are great in all if you have a very large organisation where you have you know like minded people who are going through the same changes, supporting each other, so a bit like the mental health and menopause advocates within your organisation. So upskilling certain people to be very knowledgeable about that. My only

caveat to that is that you can get a little bit of, yeah, I’ve gone through that, so it’s okay, we’ll all go through it together. What you need to do is create change and get access to decent support and care. And I and I am a little bit worried that we do the Manipause Cafes and they’re brilliant. but it’s all like we’re all in this together. But actually what we need to do is all move forward from this point of view, if you know what I mean. So and then obviously HR support. So if people are off work

you know, from an HR point of view, you know, why are they off work and what support can you put in place for them really? And then disciplinary, you know, obviously from a law point of view, you’re going to be looking at make you know, are people, you know, doing the get getting the right amount of work through the door? You know, are they securing the right deals, et cetera, or contracts, etc.

And if they’re not, so you’re performance managing people, why are you performance managing them? I know it’s actually something else going on that’s underlying this. So it my the two things I see in clinic all the time around that are menopa obviously women’s hormon health menopausal issues or permenopause menopause but also domestic abuse. So I think the two things where people start to slip a little bit with work and are struggling, but they don’t disclose.

So the sensitive conversations to get them to disclose around that and getting support in place are really it’s really important. And thank you for again for being so thorough and giving advice to help organizations navigate this, you know, very important discussion. And and I know you’re very, you know, we’ve talked a little bit about sort of menopause action plans, and I know you talk a lot about the importance of these as well. Do you have an example of a best practice one or ones that you think genuinely are most effective and what they look like in reality? Just again to give people some practical

things to be thinking about who may not have these menopause action plans in place right now. So there there’s outline and guidance on in the terms of the government websites, etcetera. and obviously you need to upload it to that if you employ more than 250 employees. It obviously depends, I think, really on your organisation and your organisation structure and the number of people in the place as well. I think it’s difficult to sort it’s not really up one size fits all because it depends on on what your current workforce currently do, doesn’t it really? So

So homeworking I think is something that perhaps needs to be looked at and addressed within a within an organisation, especially if you have a lot of people working from home. I do see that quite a lot in clinics where women feel they’re withdrawn because they’re not mixing and I know there’s loads of benefits to working from home. you know, as a woman being around, etc., necessary for you you know, for your kids, but it isn’t always the the best place for for women to be all the time. Sometimes it’s brilliant, sometimes it’s not.

So it really depends on your workforce and what is it that your workforce want as well. So I would ask them, you know, those are usually the best sort of policies. You know, what is it that you feel you need to be the best person you can be at your job? What support do you all need? Where are we going with this? So especially when you’re looking at reasonable adjustments in work, there’s no point in somebody who’s never experienced this giving you advice and guidance. You know, it has to be, you know

What what issues you’re having? So say I mean I’ve I’ve I used to be a tribunal member of a social entitlement chamber and my goodness, you know, one day it was boiling in the courts, the next day it was freezing in the courts, you know. So could we have a could we have like a just a standard nice temperature that works for us all, you know? Things like that are important really. So they’re more the practical steps, but it depends on w where your workforce work, doesn’t it really? I think if you’re shift working, you know, can you do daytime working? Because the the

flip between shift working, do nights and days can be really detrimental. So can you support your staff to do more daytime hours? And I suppose from a legal perspective point of view, if they’re travelling, giving people time to adjust to different time zones is really important if they’ve got sleep issues. So there are loads of different ways that you can look at it.

Yeah, and again you just you know open our eyes to the different ways and you know when you actually really sort of go into this, the the things that you should be thinking about and things that you can be doing to further support your people. We’ve talked also, you know, about the commercial impact because you know we’ve seen the estimates of the sort of lost billable houdle time between like say a thousand to two two and a half thousand a day while retaining that sort of single senior lawyer could protect, you know, two hundred to maybe half a million.

Or more on annual revenue. So, you know, this is real commercial impact here. That’s again why we were keen to sort of really laser in on this. So going to the the the leadership again, the role of managers, some managers, and we loosely touched on this earlier, but I just want to go deeper on this topic because we’ve obviously got someone who’s so specialized in this space who’s dealing with people and says it day in, day out, and hears a whole host of different stories and scenarios. So the managers that maybe find these conversations difficult, how should the companies equip

those managers to support employees confidently and more so also appropriately. So I think it’s just improving communication skills with around about that really. Some of the conversations that I’ve had with with senior leadership teams and managers are, especially if there’s a gender disparity, is they just don’t know this exists. Or if it does exist, perhaps they don’t really want to feel that it’s impacting their workforce. You know, it’s hap it happens to somebody else. So it’s about

improving understanding about you know the menopausal transition so that they just feel that it’s not this sort of like mysterious sort of thing that’s going on that they can’t feel that they can relate to at all. I think it’s then really important to get them to have better ability just to communicate. So simple questions, you know, they’re the questions of, you know, how are you? And and what does that mean really? And and just those better communications and being really just caring about your workforce.

And also I think making sure that they realise that this isn’t that person forever. Yeah, this is that person at that point in time. And it just happens at that point in time that they’re not necessarily able to do the job that they could do previously in the way that they previously were able to do it. But that doesn’t mean to say that they’re never going to be able to. So if you take my my example, you know, myself for example, I was off work post COVID in the menopause.

for a couple of well, a good few months before I was able to get back to work. I wasn’t able to get out of the house. I couldn’t mobilise. I couldn’t walk very far, you know, partly medical but also partly post COVID. I had, you know, palpitations, I had S V T, I had lots of stuff going on. So a fast heart rate, sorry. but now I’m like back weight training, running, you know, the I’m back just doing normal life. So it’s really important that if you’d written me off then and said, well, off you go

retirement you know, then you’d lose that you know, you’d lose the person within your workforce and it’s really important. So I think it’s all about communication. I’m not being scared like I said before, it’s a normal thing. It happens to us all. Let’s just open the conversation up, normalise it, improve communication. And and I think once you staff realise that you’ve had training in it as a senior leadership team, they then might feel more confident to then come to talk to you about it.

But if they think you don’t know anything about it, you’ve got no idea, then then then they don’t feel confident to come and talk to you. But if they know that you’ve had training around it, then they’ll feel confident to come and maybe open up about what’s happening as well. I really like that you you shared that example of yourself as well because you it’s an age and stage isn’t it’s a chapter. It’s only that

Particular chapter, you know, that’s of of everyone’s own book. And like you say, the organizations that genuinely show they care and have invested and trained in that, you’re going to build those probably trust scenario, you know, scenarios where people are going to come more forward. So they’re not going to be taking, you know, like you said, presentedism, just turning up, but you’re not getting their best version of them, or various other things that we’ve discussed in detail during the whole podcast. So looking forward then to 2027 in the future, again, coming back to the menopause sort of action plan as they’re continuing to develop.

What should employers be doing over the next twelve months to stay ahead of the curve? Read what your requirements are with respect to the MENAPOLE Action Plan. You know, you can go over the links, you can go to government organisations, etcetera. Hopefully your HR team will be aware of that really. Obviously this is just for England and Wales as well, so it depends where the podcast is going out. But that doesn’t mean to say that you shouldn’t take note of this, ’cause I think this is good. We are moving in the right direction with respect to that.

Definitely look at your menopause policy, like we said before. Look at the training requirements in your organisation. Do you feel well equipped? And if you don’t, get training. And I mean, obviously I would say this in terms of I deliver training on this to organisations, but I think there’s different quality of training, isn’t there? And there’s training where you tick the box and you have your your quick online and they’ve tick tick tick. Yes, we’ve menopause training, we’re all menopause aware. That’s great, brilliant.

But have you moved the needle forward at all? Have you have you actually created any change within your organisation? And if you haven’t, then probably that training isn’t the right training for you. so I like in person training actually. I I like in person clinics, I like in person training because I think then you really get the conversation started. So rather than I mean online training’s fine, I do deliver online training as well, but you know, the obviously cameras on when you’re training online.

but really getting the room talking, getting people feeling comfortable and about it as well. So training within your organisation is really important. And then what supports you have, where are you referring these women to? Because we all know it’s a bit of a nightmare at the moment sometimes to get access to your GP. You know, do they have to phone at eight well not phone anymore? Do we have to do our total triage at eight o’clock in the morning when we all go online and spending, you know, GPs triaging about two hundred and fifty to three hundred.

forms of mourning now from online triage. So, you know, we recognise it’s difficult to access care. and you know, what does that how are you going to ac support your team really, either through occupational health referrals or, you know, if necessary, partnering with with an organisation to do, you know, even private health care as well. Because you can turn, you can really support these women in a short period of time. I think, you know, within three months

No, most of my women are feeling much better and within six months I’d say most of them are a lot better. And so it’s actually quite a short period of time. And many women before they come to see me in clinic have been wading through treacle really for several years before they say, actually I’ve had enough of this, I’m going to get support. and so it’s it’s doing things in a really timely manner and doing things promptly, really.

Yeah, and again you’ve you’ve given so much, you know, rich, rich advice there that maybe, you know, maybe there’s nothing else you wish to add on to this, but just a thought of this, you know, the law firm leaders have bought into this, right? Lucy, we need to get you in. We need you for training. you know, I’m a leadership of a law firm or an in-house legal team here. You know, you come in, top three action plans they should prioritize before twenty twenty seven. Anything you would like to restress or

Give new advice, imagine you’re in on the ground on that day and there. I know it’s probably going to be specific to each organization, but anything that listeners listening in should there’s sort of one, two, threes. From an individual point of view, I think my one, two, threes, my one my one individually and as an organization is you know, well definitely individually, is be kind to yourself, but don’t be blind to yourself. I actually thought I made that saying up, but then I realised it was it wasn’t a staying at all. I’ve been saying that for years.

But you know, just making sure that it’s can sometimes life’s really hard, either in or an organisational point of view, but also an individual point of view. So being definitely being kind, but not allowing then that to slip into making things worse. So I mean, you know, for women, you know, you come home and you think, I’ll just have a glass of wine ’cause I deserve that, I’m being kind to myself, but actually you’re not. You’re making things a lot worse. So having a really sort of good look about how to

how to change where you’re at really. I think just start as an organisation and an individual. You know, you know, ninety percent of something’s better than a hundred percent of nothing. So what do you currently have and how to move this forward. So get people in your organisation who want to do this. So don’t delegate this to somebody who you who should be doing it. You know, who wants to do it, who wants to put themselves forward to lead on this, to create this change.

to be part of this sort of movement to move things forward really. upskill a few people within the organisation so they are very confident with respect to this as well would be my other thing. and then access good, proper support and care for people who know what they’re doing. You know, don’t don’t leave this to hope that it will get better by itself. Brilliant. Thank you so much. I’m gonna give you a quick quick fire on the spot question now, which

I may give a moment to to think about before I let you go, ’cause it’s been a a a wonderful, detailed conversation on a very important topic that I hope is going to help a tremendous amount of people, and indeed employees. So if you had to complete this sentence, how would you finish it? The organizations that will thrive in twenty twenty seven will not be the ones with the most policies. They’ll be the ones that read them. Brilliant. I think I’ve

Policies to me, my goodness, don’t get me put I’m just yeah, with our CQC, we we are policied out with CQC in in the NHS. but it isn’t about the policy or even what’s written in them, it’s about actually doing the acting on the policy and actually delivering on that policy is so important. Well said.

Well said, fully agreed. And if our listeners, which I’m sure they will, and indeed watchers want to follow you or learn more about your work, indeed the menopause action plans, where can they go to find out more? Feel free to share any websites, any social media handles or resources. We’ll also share them with this very special episode for you too. I’m on LinkedIn, which is you know, like probably most not most people. So it’s Dr. Lucy Mather at LinkedIn well on LinkedIn. I have my website Gyre Life, so that’s www.JAYALife.com. So that’s in memory of my mother in law who is Indian, which is why I like masala chai. so Gaia Life, you can find us on the website and you can contact us if you’ve wanted any further help and advice. And we have on there actually a really nice menopause symptom checker where which you can complete, fill in if you if you need to.

And it’ll give you insight into what’s currently happening with your symptoms really and guidance. Love it. Well, thank you so much, Lucy. It’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show. This conversation is such an important reminder that menopause is not simply a health issue. Hopefully, as we’ve outlined throughout the conversation, it’s about the workplace, it’s about leadership, it’s about empathy, support.

So from all of us here on the Legally Speaking Podcast, Lucy, sponsored by Clio, wishing you lots of continued success with all the important work that you are doing to shape the future of the medical profession and hopefully help work in professionals such as lawyers and beyond. But for now, over and out. Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. If you like the content here, why not check out our world leading content and collaboration hub, the Legally Speaking Club, over on Discord.

Go to our website www.legallyspeakingpodcast.com, there’s a link to join our community there. Over and out.