Legal Risk and Compliance: Honing Your Legal Career – Kate Burt  – S8E13

Legal risk and compliance is one of the fastest growing sectors in the industry. To help us understand the growing complexities of the space, we were joined by Kate Burt, the Founder and CEO of Hive Risk, a boutique risk management consultancy firm. We also touched on topics from active creativity to collaboration, as well as a sneak peek into our exciting upcoming GBLO event.  

So why should you be listening in?  

You can hear Rob and Kate discussing: 

  • The Great Big Legal Off-Site 2024 
  • Career advice for legal risk and compliance professionals  
  • The skills you’ll gain from regulatory roles 
  • RegTech’s benefits for growing firms 
  • The Compliance for Law Firms Forum 



Robert Hanna 00:03 

Welcome to the legally speaking podcast. I’m your host Rob Hanna. This week I’m delighted to be joined by Kate Burt Kate is the founder and CEO of high risk a boutique Risk and Compliance company. She is also the co founder of compliance for law firms. Kate has over 20 years of experience in the legal industry as a litigation Fiona Hill Dickinson LLP, senior litigator at BLM and Chios head of risk and compliance and legal and head of risk and compliance at Vincent solicitors. In 2017. Kate founded high risk advising law firms award winning reg tech as well as legal service providers or market strategy, law firm insights and regulatory compliance. So a very big warm welcome, Kate. So a very big warm welcome, Kate, great to be here. Oh, it’s a pleasure to have you on the legally speaking podcast. It’s been a while. But we do have a customary icebreaker question here on the legal has been podcast, which is on a scale of one to 1010 being very real. How would you rate the hit TV series suits in terms of its reality of the law? If you’ve seen it? 

Kate Burt 01:10 

I have only seen thumbnails. I’m not a fan. I haven’t watched it. So just from the glamour of what I can see on the outside, I would say four, 

Robert Hanna 01:20 

four. Okay, fair enough. And with a four, we’ll move swiftly on to talk all about you. So would you mind telling listeners bit about your background and career journey today? 

Kate Burt 01:29 

Yeah, absolutely. So from a very young age, I knew I was going to be a solicitor, a lawyer, but I can pinpoint it to the moment where I was going to be a solicitor so I was around 14 in a bedroom with my friend’s girlfriend at the time. Ally McBeal was all the rage at the time. And my friend had some university prospectuses on the bed, and we were chatting about, oh, what should we be when we grow up? And it was then? Oh, well, we’ll both be lawyers. Yeah, hopefully lawyers. So from age 14, that was it. Just there was no real question about it. At that point. That was what we’re going to do. So she actually became a teacher. So she didn’t agree. She broke the contract. Absolutely. So but But ultimately, I went a very, very traditional route into law. So a level law degree a straight up to an LLB a Liverpool John Moores University into you, your old traditional training contract, LPC route into and basically qualified as a, as a litigator, because my seats at the time, although that should have been, you know, a perfect sort of representation of of legal practice, it was pretty much I was a litigator, I was a personal injury, fear, and for all that time we got through it, but essentially, that’s where I qualified into as a as a litigator, 

Robert Hanna 02:44 

because that’s what was gonna ask you actually were from your training days and the firm’s Europe, where did that interest in litigation come from other than automobile?

Kate Burt 02:50 

So it was just setting the scene a little bit into in the year 2000. That’s when I was sort of, I was doing my degree. It was litigation capital of the world in Liverpool, in the northwest of England, and all the opportunities were around litigation. And so the interest came from from where the opportunities were. But actually, I found that personally, I really thrived on the legal research side of it, the building arguments, and that really interested me on the litigation side, particularly the advocacy I really saw Sean to. And in the in the first week of my training contract Irvings, I was tasked with doing the advocacy on a mock cost hearing, and they have all the solicitors or the partners in the boardroom. I was to argue against one of the other solicitors and they got a district judge in two, well actually was a barrister. And he played the district judge, and it was an hour’s fighting about costs, following an RTA. So right from the off, I was in the thick of it, and you have to know your case law, you have to know you, your arguments, and that really, really sort of it was challenging, but I absolutely thrived in that sort of environment. Yeah. And 

Robert Hanna 04:07 

I’m just having flashbacks in my head. You mentioned about sort of Liverpool being that litigation, capital and sort of the power of geography because law people no who follow the show that my grandfather ran a law firm in 1950s. And he spearheaded that in Leicester, which at the time back then had a lot of the local commercial hosiery trade. So there’s a lot of commercial business available. So he actually got to grow to be a successful law firm, outside of any of the major London player due to that particular city. So it’s interesting, you again mentioned with litigation for you how that was a good building block for your career, and what you’ve gone on to so let’s talk a bit more about your career. We’re going to switch to compliance now, obviously going to come on to all the great things you’re doing at the moment. But prior to that you had to pick up some experience and you were head of risk and compliance at lots of legal events and solicitors. So tell us a bit about some of the valuable skills you picked up in those roles. So 

Kate Burt 04:52 

I’ll start from why why is it even got into Risk and Compliance because it was a pure litigator for many years and have a very established career as a litigator. To, but in around 2016, I knew I sort of had this entrepreneurial pool, too. And I knew that the traditional route wasn’t working for me. And it was one of those, it’s sort of it happened. It wasn’t planned. Whilst I was working my notice period, I was asked to one of the big law firms that was working at, I was asked to help her a lot, a claims management company company pursuing abs, they needed a solicitor to help with that application to be become a law firm, essentially. And so I was like, Yeah, I can help don’t know what I’m doing. My solicitor kind of know about compliance, but not properly because no one to talk about that. It wasn’t a recognised profession. In my world. Yeah. And so it was doing that that piece of work that application for them as, oh, this is a thing. Yeah, this is a thing. So I was self taught from that point. So I, and around that time, the GDPR came out. So it was it was about to take effect may in May 2018. So I learned with my legal background and reading statute, I learned that GDPR if it doesn’t, and I just started going out and lecturing on it to small businesses to your online on LinkedIn, on Facebook, I did a Facebook Live to a group of small business owners on the impact of GDPR. So I actually learned compliance from scratch, essentially self taught. And it was actually I then went to legali, which is a compliance firm and learn how to do it properly. Paul Saunders is watching he’ll say, Yes, she’s had a lot of learning to do at that point. But then, oh, this is this is actually a thing. So at some point, when in house, Vincent, and that’s where I really learned the cut and thrust of what risk and compliance is today. Yeah. 

Robert Hanna 07:00 

And obviously, you picked up a lot of skills, and you had that entrepreneurial bug inside you. So we come to 2017. Hive risk. You know, I think it’s super exciting what you’re doing, you know, you and I are good friends off the show as well and do a lot of collaborations we’re going to talk about, but let’s talk to that. Why, why hive rescue and tell us exactly what you’re getting up to. So 

Kate Burt 07:20 

help people. Sure. So it’s been a journey. Enough today through all the ups and downs, but essentially so So you talk about 26 2017 That’s when I set up my limited company, and it’s called and it’s still called today keep it legal limited. And I didn’t actually brand high risk until 2021. Okay, so from 2017 to 2021. I was in all in different guises in different ways, essentially a consultant sole trader, essentially building my own personal practice. In 2021. I always knew I wanted to build a team around this in 2021. I thought, right, now’s the time, let’s brand this. And Hybris came to me I was sort of brainstorming different things. And just, I’ve got very creative mind. So I’m constantly trying to think of different ideas and bringing things to life. And I remember I was walking over to my mom’s house over the hill over right over the railway, and hive came to mind. And I’d read on my bookshelf, there’s a book called wisdom of the bees, right, my mind won’t go down that that direction about the organisational principles of the bees building a hive and it was really that and I could there were so many angles I could see that that kind of comply apply to compliance and risk management actually, so I got the word hive there. And then it was just different brains brainstorming and ultimately evolved into hive risk, which I think is just got such a powerful and I’m very particular event and we’ve had this before the show, if anyone calls it Hive or abbreviate it it kind of hits my ear wrong and like it’s high risk young people also say high risk as well. But very much it’s it I didn’t know that it was going to become the strong brand that it is today when when we just had a feeling about it. This has got this is strong. 

Robert Hanna 09:18 

I love that and it’s again I will say to people particularly thinking entrepreneurial, like simple things can lead to an action like you’re you’re on a walk and a thought came into your head you know a lot of people you know you may be sat at your desk to get overwhelmed like getting up moving. I know you’re obviously on the on the move anyway. But things come to you when you’re actually more active like an active body your thoughts come in and if you can jot them down and really kind of ruminate on them and move forward. I love how you kind of came about that story on the busy bee side of things. And then 

Kate Burt 09:42 

number of letters I’ve written in the shower. Yeah, even LinkedIn post thinking, you know, a concept comes to you to kind of work it all out through that and while you’re asleep as well, you wake up with ideas as well. So really key to build civic building this business and what we sort of infuse across all the staff as well is He’s a real creative creative side what we do, and that’s one of our core values is creative innovation. So yeah, we just love it. 

Robert Hanna 10:08 

And I think, you know, I love the colours as well. And everything a part of it. It’s good. But let’s talk about who you you help. So you help law firms, real estate businesses, legal tech startups. So what types of services do you actually provide to this client? 

Kate Burt 10:21 

Okay, so our bread and butter work so that our, the bulk of our client base is law firms, sort of mid market law firms. And they come to us in all different ways, so many different ways that we work with with them. One of the key ways we work with them is on anti money laundering in their response to and increasingly so because the regulator is really coming down on the offence. We’ve seen from the headlines, you know, the client and CO half a million pounds online, and it’s almost daily, it seems as though there’s something in the headlines about anti money laundering. So over the last three years, we’ve seen a massive uptick, take uptick in the in the requirements for what we do, actually. So in one of the ways we work with firms is we are their full compliance team, we are literally our emails are their firm’s domain name, you know, to their staff, when they’re interacting with our team, we are their firm. So we’re and in that when we work with firms in that way, we are literally everything that is their combined team from analysts combined analysts all the way up to risk director, where we meet with managing departments, managing partners in sort of weekly board meetings, and that sort of that whole breadth of of the compliance team, which is I think, really is our sort of differentiator in the market that we are we have that sort of at the coalface experience. And that’s why we understand our clients. So well, 

Robert Hanna 11:44 

yeah, I love that I might say, I don’t see others really doing it to the level that you do it in the market. That’s why I’ve been so impressed by not only your growth, but kind of the quality of the services that you bring. So but just getting people more educated, that are obviously very strict on sort of knowing the line, but I’m thinking the compliance side is so important, because you provide a safe, fully embedded compliant team. So you’ve got can’t afford services offshore and complex source of funds specialist. So for our listeners, who might be less familiar with those types of terms, can you tell us a little bit more about that types of things you’re gonna get your hands on, people might need your service, I’d also be interested in that. 

Kate Burt 12:19 

So so often, anything tricky that comes up with with risk and compliance, essentially, often it’s anti money laundering, but it could be anything. So it could be a conflict of interest query, or it could be, you know, a regulatory breach, actually. And we, for some, for some firms, we’re that phone, a friend. So anything sort of tricky comes up and give us a call on the tricky source of funds you mentioned. So it may be that we’re not the bear compliance team. But there’s something landed, there’s a deal that needs to go through often within 24 hours, that we need that we need help steering the due diligence on this, we don’t know where to start, it’s got offshore, it’s got an offshore element that’s high risk country involved, there’s trust involved, we don’t know where to start. So we’re saying, Come, don’t worry, it’s fine, we get we get the more sort of setup. And then we our team of very, very experienced on that. And we can kind of steer them through safely. And it might be steering them through safely so they can proceed with the transaction or it might be stop, this has got red flags over it, you don’t you know, and we kind of help them through that process of not moving moving into dangerous waters on that. 

Robert Hanna 13:24 

Yeah. And I understand that. And it’s you know, what the stuff that we’re talking about is very important, these aren’t nice to haves, you know, if you get this wrong, it could be a lot of trouble. One thing I’ve come to learn about you from working with you on projects is you’re very strategic mind thinker. So you know, you’ve got this 20 years plus a really good solid legal experience, you know, you really understand law firms, you’re obviously now following all your training everything you’ve done following a DIY, shall we say start to compliance. So you know, what it is advising law firms? What’s sort of your way of bringing that sort of unique market strategy to them? What are some of the top things you would say, that would help them? 

Kate Burt 13:59 

I think, firstly, is is it don’t, not being quick to jump jump to the answer, not being quick to jump to the judgement. So firstly, you’ve got to understand you, the client, when I’m talking about a client, the law firms so our clients to understand their business, we understand their motivation, and to understand their, their appetite for risk. That’s really important because there’s, there’s so many different ways you can approach it. And we take a consultative approach. So we understand we try and understand what the where the pain points are, as well. And then once we’ve got that information and built up a really good picture, then we start to ask the questions, then we start to give recommendations from a compliance perspective, but also from a commercial perspective. So what’s good for business actually, and what and also what actually, if you change things or if you take a certain approach, it might be actually more efficient for the business or you could win more business or you could so we have that broader view and particularly as a business owner And that’s been actually one of the biggest teachers, for me running a business and quite a high growth, high risk business. That actually I, I see a lot of parallels with, with my clients, particularly with this the fast growth startup law firms, we were swapping notes. And it’s to be honest, the only difference in the journey is the fact that we’re not we don’t need to be regulated, exactly exactly the same concerns cash flow, risk, staffing problems. So we bring all that sort of rounded knowledge to help our clients. And it’s sort of a peer to peer relationship, not a, you know, when there’s no hierarchy in it. And that’s a collaborative sort of approach to our consultancy, and that’s got to be there. Otherwise, it doesn’t work for us. And 

Robert Hanna 15:50 

I always say it’s probably on every episode. Now, collaboration is domination. But I think that the what I’m gleaning from the way that you approach and run your businesses, you’re not a supplier or a partner, you need to collaborate and like you said, when you’re helping them not just to do the doing, but from that commercial side of things. And actually how that can position to help for future business not only mitigate what might be the issue here and then. So I think that’s really nice and really good for people to understand that, you know, it’s not just going out there and getting a supply but comes back to real understanding the business and then wanting to partner with them and be a long term, partner. Okay, let’s talk about reg tech for people who may not know what is it in very simple terms? And then what are some of the common challenges facing law firms regarding regulatory compliance, particularly? And how do you help overcoming them? 

Kate Burt 16:33 

So I’ll use the way I consider acting because I’m sure there’ll be experts out there who say, Oh, that’s not the whole thing. Well, the when I talk about reg tech, and when I’m talking to my clients about reg tech is it’s the technology available to them to help with that help with their compliance with their regulation, regulatory obligations. So that could be an electronic verification, an ID to the there are a number of providers out there, to put that into layman’s terms. Essentially, when your law firms acquiring a new client, they might need to run ID checks, and they might need to verify that identity, that software out there is phenomenal to give accurate and speedy results on that. Compare that to the old fashioned method of bringing a new passport. Yeah, I’ll certify the basketball. Yeah, oh, can you scan me over a copy of you of certified passport. And that’s that’s very, very old fashioned. Now, it’s sort of in a still a place for it. And depending on the demographics of the the consumer, I’d say the elderly clients sometimes still want to come come in with the passport, they don’t want to be doing a video selfie, because that’s one form of reg tech. But there’s so many different different technology tools out there that support the compliance journey within law firms. So that’s, that’s what I mean. So you mentioned before head of risk at legal yep, that’s le GL. So they are a reg tech company doing exactly that. But they’ve got I mean, I won’t give them justice, to explain exactly everything that you can go and look at legal if you want to. But essentially, my role with legal was to not the risk and compliance of their business, but actually, from the perspective of they are servicing law firm clients. I know a lot about law firms, as I’m being assisted myself and having to use the technology. So it’s more of a market insights consultancy, to say, You know what this is, or these are real pain points for solicitors or, or from the regulatory side, looking at the tech, you need to cover this aspect of regulation. And from what I’m seeing there, it doesn’t quite, you know, recommending enhancements to that. So our services that work very much like that with the rec tech companies. And the other aspect of it is we do provide content. So one of the methods that rec tech companies have for marketing and getting brand credibility and trust of the market is to use experts to comment on relevant value add things and then publish that informs of articles blogs, and that really is a key part of reg tech sort of marketing strategy. So we can help that we work with a number of reg tech companies on in that way. 

Robert Hanna 19:28 

Yeah, and I’m fascinated by this area. And another area we’re going to come on to which I’m also fascinated by is crypto and talking of content you know, an article on the read it here off your website. New Style scam alert warning states high risk advisors firms in relation to complex issues and advise where there is a crypto element including regulatory issues relating to anonymous parties matters involving complex source of funds challenges that are mouthful. So how is crypto becoming more prevalent in the legal sphere and what is it mean to be regulatory compliant? And that is a big question. 

Kate Burt 20:05 

So there’s like four articles I can write out. That’s. So there’s a number out. So I’ll start with the sort of broad question first. And I’d like to dig into a little bit of the of some of the more specifics that you mentioned there. But where we seen it typical, typically, where crypto comes up when we’re working with law firms. And this is typical, is on when the when the firm’s dealing with a transaction for a client, your client will say, or when the the sister asks where you’re getting the money from the say, I raise it through crypto trading, for example. And so many people now have crypto, it’s sort of it’s not that sort of fringe technology that it used to be. And so the difficulty for a firm is to say, well, actually, are we comfortable? How do we know where that money is coming from? Yeah, and it’s on the source of funds, inquiries, that a lot of firms really do not have the risk appetite, or the time or the inclination to figure out a safe path through it. And there is a safe path through it. But it requires some investment just to get the risk assessment, right. Just the risk appetite, right for the firm. But typically, the issue is because actually crypto is there’s there’s actually a an audit trail on what as soon as it’s on the blockchain, there’s an audit trail of what’s going to happen. So so often, it’s the money coming in wet. So when it’s in fear, when it’s in pounds, and pence, Where did that money come from, to them by the first lot. So often the inquiries around where it came from first, not so much when it hits the crypto aspect. But what we do have we have one of our consultants, Tony Brown is a crypto expert. And he can really delve into actually interrogating that that crypto wallet, and also he has his own risk assessment geared to crypto specifically. So we can help out if a firm wants to say, you know, what we want to start our clients are insisting that we do this, they come and speak to us about that, because we can we can sort of help you with your strategy. And for some fans, we’ve done that, and we’ve set ourselves like, it’s probably not worth your time. You know, but once you’ve you know, once you’ve paid us to help you and also the risk and risk versus reward actually, it’s probably not for you. You mentioned anonymous crypto there. And that’s incredible. I’m sure you won’t mind me mentioning. But we’ll McKenzie from McKenzie cos instructed us to support. This was quite a few a couple of years ago now. He had an instruction for an anonymous, anonymous client. And I won’t say too much but other than what’s in the press, because he’s done a post about it. It’s a judgement out there. But we we sort of helped him say right navigate from his perspective as a regulated person, wherever the risks in acting for on regulate. So yeah, an anonymous or pseudo party and that was I looked that up because there’s no precedent for you. It’s research skills. And you’ve got to think creatively to think actually, how can I justify this on a sort of a compliance regulatory side when you kind of it’s completely new? Yeah. So that was fascinated and do look at, well, McKenzie, and he does some really interesting stuff on cost. 

Robert Hanna 23:18 

My head is spinning about how to approach somebody like that. Like there’s there’s lots of impact with that. That could be a whole podcast episode, 

Kate Burt 23:24 

you’ll have to ask, Will, if you’ll it’ll show you my my recommendations, but  

Robert Hanna 23:28 

I’m sure he will. Definitely, I’m going to take that. 

Kate Burt 23:31 

He’d be a great guy to have on your show at some point. 

Robert Hanna 23:32 

Okay, cool. Well, we will talk about other things that you’re doing, because you’re also the co founder of compliance for law firms, which is weekly discussions. So tell us a bit about the forum and some of the most recent topics of discussion, let’s say over the course of 2020. 

Kate Burt 23:48 

So compliance for law firms is an initiative set up a route it was over three years ago now with my good friend now and colleague, Steve Brett from v3 compliance training. And it’s about three years ago, we were just chatting about careers as you do collaborative ideas. Like why don’t we do a discussion forum for law firms? And yeah, should we run it every Wednesday at 12? Yeah, every Wednesday, like, Oh, it sounds a bit ambitious that three years on more than every single Wednesday apart from Christmas, and if it clashes with the colpo for conference, Steve and I are there are 12. And we’ve grown this incredibly strong group of risk and compliance professionals from law firms from your top 10 law firms in the UK to sole practitioners and everything in between this group of people that are passionate about compliance and suppliers also, who are passionate about compliance. And we come together every Wednesday to Chatham House rule, which means don’t say who said Well, yeah, so please, yeah, speak freely. And then we open up we have a topic every week, different different topic and then we we have a forum It’s it’s it’s usually online, it’s predominantly online, but we have one foot going for in person conferences now. In fact, the fourth one was yesterday. There we go, which is incredible.  

Robert Hanna 25:13 

I love the consistency with that, because I also have initiative on a Wednesday, I have a newsletter that goes out every Wednesday. It’s amazing how quick Wednesday comes around. There’s so much you need to find, and I took my hat’s off to you for what you’re doing and the value you’re giving. And you’re just creating spaces for people to come get educated on important areas. Something I’m particularly excited about that’s happening this year, which I’m delighted to be partnering with you on is on the third July, we have the GPL which is the great big legal off site, which is gonna be here actually at ribby. Hall where we’re recording today. Can you actually theme is future proof success, the playbook for mid market law firms? Would you mind sharing more details about what the events all about? What’s on the agenda? 

Kate Burt 25:54 

Yeah, sure. So again, this was a real collaborative process, wasn’t it when those those real creative ideas are flowing. So what we wanted to create, we wanted to create that off site of a really good off site, a company off site, but involving the legal community, midmarket law firms, bringing everyone together and creating that environment for collaboration and for progression. So it’s intended to be well it is it’s actually booked in it’s the tickets are selling fast. It’s it’s a space for innovation, essentially. So around about 200 people in the room. We’ve got some incredible guest speakers. We’ve already announced piers Linney, Dragon’s Den and implementing AI, who is speaking with us, and we’re going to be looking at the real key areas to help future proof, the law firm. 

Robert Hanna 26:42 

Yeah. And that’s what excites me because I don’t see this type of event, particularly up here in the north of the UK, providing that value, particularly for like set up mid market law firm, and I say, Ruby Hall, if people aren’t familiar with the location, I think it’s a great place for an off site. Like I said, we’ve chosen off site, it’s not a stuffy, Nether legal conference midweek that you’ve got to go to because your partners or people have said go to, you’ll come here and everyone will get value. And I think we’re really focusing on the experience, like you just walked through with the wall, you see the lush grounds, see the spa hotel where people can stay. Like you said, we’ve got peers, we’ve got some amazing other sort of high profile industry bodies. In and around the legal industry. Of course, we’re being supported by our friends at Clio are obviously, you know, legal unicorn leaders and cloud based technology, they’re going to be here. So I do think this is really going to be one of the most pioneering events that year one is going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. So if there’s an already sounding excited, get excited. And I guess with that, where can people go and find more and where can they grab a ticket at West Coast placement to go? 

Kate Burt 27:43 

Absolutely. So if you follow Rob or myself on LinkedIn, we’re talking about binders there, but also it’s Eventbrite tickets are on sale now. So if you type in Eventbrite, great British, great big. But that’s so much fun. Yeah, so on on Eventbrite, there’s earlybird tickets available. Now, I don’t know when this this has been recorded and sent out. So they might be overwhelming. But essentially, it’s good value in any events. So yet, definitely, Eventbrite page will be the place to go to snap those up. 

Robert Hanna 28:19 

Yeah, and follow us on LinkedIn, because we’re gonna be making lots of announcements. And as I say, there’s gonna be a lot of entertainment as well. We’re also thought about the entertainment piece, you know, there’s going to be some quirky networking alternatives. It’s just going to be an experience that I think will really set people apart in terms of just going to another legal event. I think ribby Hall is just the best location. So go and give it a Google Now check it out. It’s a fascinating venue. I’ve walked my dog regularly on these grounds. And it’s just beautiful place to to have 

Kate Burt 28:42 

it’s also Hybris HQ as well. So where we are now we’re actually coming to you live pre recorded from Roby Hall. So this is this is our office at high risk here. And we chose it actually, not just because I’m a member of the health club, and the kids are here every weekend. But it is absolutely beautiful grounds. There’s some really big corporations that have this as their venue for their annual conference. And I think that was, Do you know what it is good enough for them? 

Robert Hanna 29:09 

I think one of the I used to do procurement recruitment years ago, and PA systems used to be a huge client of ours, and they’re huge over here both just think of the engines and jets and work that they do. So they do lots of things here. So yeah, definitely check it out. It’s gonna be an exciting event. And I’m really looking forward to it. But when you talk about other things that you do, because you keep super busy tech, so you’re passionate about educating the legal community, hosting webinars, such as a masterclass in fraud, threats and vulnerabilities for law firms, fraud risks and law firms and economic crime acts, why are you so passionate about sharing your knowledge? 

Kate Burt 29:40 

Okay, well, one, it’s great for the profession from our sort of giving back. It’s good for the profession to be educated and actually do things in a safe way in a compliant way. So that’s sort of I’ve given him back but to be brutally candid with him, it wins US business. Essentially, when we give in when we put our content out. It’s so much First of all, we don’t just save the, you know, the high value stuff for our pet, you know, for our paid service, we lead with our value so that our, our potential clients, so they really know what they’re talking about. So we put our best consultants on, we put our best foot forward in our free content. So on our website, there’s actually you mentioned the fraud website, the fraud webinar, but there’s actually there’s a crypto webinar on there. There’s, there’s shake up your conveyancing department on there, there’s literally there’s so much on there with the fraud, the fraud webinar, particularly the reason we chose that one, one, it’s topical, yeah, two, we’ve got an incredible fraud team. We’ve got Nina Dayal who was count, a director of fraud at Chios torch top 50, burn, we’ve got Gavin ball, who’s our technical director, he’s got an incredible track record and encounter frauds and massive clients. He used to work for Peter Taylor, who’s the aka the fraud guy, who’s in incredible I mean, we’ve got the sort of the I mean, we call them out high risk of Avengers, our team, and we’ve got that sort of super team. So we say don’t get it get these guys in a room. Just talk. Yeah. And that’s just so incredible as it is that just like a supercharged advertisement for us, like basically, we don’t, we don’t sell No, in our sessions, it’s pure value, but when when someone watches that they’re going to, you know what we need those guys. 

Robert Hanna 31:23 

I know, I’ve always said, not selling is selling, I think if you lead from value, like you say, and you provide content. And you know, one of my mentors said to me, you know, content for free implementation for a fee, you can provide the best content, but still, they’re going to want to use a trusted person or company to help with that implementation and make sure it’s all seamless. So I absolutely agree with that approach. I love your thought leadership approach. And I guess we should talk about how we got connected, which is probably through the world of online and you probably through that platform called LinkedIn, and through our mutual friend as well, Graham. So you’re pretty active on social media and LinkedIn? How are you use it? And it’s important, you know, and I advocate for people to do this and lawyers and law firms as well. But how are you using LinkedIn to build your personal brand, as well as sort of the highest risk brand?

Kate Burt 32:08 

It actually underpins it. My whole sort of, of course, has different components to it. But the success of my of this business, or this enterprise that we’ve created, is pretty much predominantly due on account of LinkedIn, and the visibility we’ve got there. So when I set up, I literally as Anna did have an old LinkedIn account, which was you remember, in the old days, it was basically having your CV online, and maybe you connected with a few previous colleagues or current current colleagues. So I ditched that and set up a whole brand new LinkedIn account, from literally when I when I switched into risk and compliance, and I built brick by brick, I’ve got about nine and a half 1000 connections now or follow us wherever you want to go. And it was literally just right. Okay, if I’m building a business in this space, who do I want to see? Who who need Who do I need in my network, and it was literally at AT AT AT ad to start from somewhere. And then I started putting my message out there. So that I mentioned before the, the GDPR lectures, so I put a little, you know, a little video out back in 2018, which, I’ll have to dig out that. But in fact, and it’s the connections that you make, and your network that you build. And now in fact, the gentleman who helped me put the Hybris logo on hope has such a view of you watching, he found me from that GDPR video understood, 

Robert Hanna 33:39 

is what’s so important. And I tried to educate people on that it’s billion users largest professional networking site in the planet, it is a virtual networking conference at 24/7. Working without you getting your profile, right, people are gonna visit but then if you put good things out there, you never know how far the tentacles will reach. And Mike, you’ve given a great example there of how you can be discovered, and you build phenomenal brand, you know, felt phenomenal business, you know, you’re one of the fastest growing in the space that you are. Keep it up. So no doubt people will be inspired listening to this today, no doubt people are going to want to want to know more. But my sort of final question is, you know, what can advice can you give to those who might be interested in going into a career and strategy, marketing and regulatory compliance? What would be your sort of words of wisdom? 

Kate Burt 34:20 

I think those are three, those are actually three, potentially three niches and I kind of bring it all together. Yeah, so you can do it that way. I think to do it the way I’ve done, you’ve got to do it, for the love of doing it, do it for the journey. Don’t do it for the quick wins. You might not get paid for years. And in fact, it’s going to cost you a lot of money to even before you’ve even got one client. Yeah. And you’ve got to take a lot of rejection. And the times I’ve stood up to talk and just your mind’s gone blank and it’s bombed and you’ve done Why do I keep putting myself through this. So you’ve got to have that tenacity. Otherwise, you’re just not going to make it because it’s tough. Taking that aside to stripping that back a bit if you want to create reregulate theory law, you don’t have to do all this. You don’t have to do this. So you can literally build yourself up even if you can get an even an admin role in a law firm. And then you just show a little bit of a shine to risk and compliance or regulatory just show because no one wants to do it. So literally, no one’s do it. So do a little bit of homework. And you might have to do it on your own, you probably will, because no one will probably pay you to sit there and you read it when you’re like you’re supposed to be sorting the mail. Yeah, post. My kids watch too much American YouTube. But yeah, so you can actually have you show a little bit of initiative for that, you’re gonna move very quickly up into being that go to personal risk and compliance, because literally, no one wants to do it. And that’s why consultancies, like mine do so well, because the skill set isn’t often there. And they’re looking for those, you know, those those, those ambitious, no ambitious and enthusiastic compliance professionals. But one of the key things I would give advice to any youngsters or as a young in terms of experience as well, not just just age, is be careful on the firm you choose to go into compliance with, what we see sometimes is newly qualified solicitors who get recruited by sort of startup ABS type not lawyer owned, I’m going to really offend some people now, but I’ve seen it. And that solicitor is just to be the practice of practising certificate, and they’re being asked, and the power is not with them. And they’ve been asked to do some really crazy things that they don’t. And they and I have seen them sort of crumble before me. And I’m not just talking one. So if you’re watching that anything I’m talking about you I’ve seen, I’ve seen a few. So I’d say just be really careful about the firm and have your senses out is Is this right? Is this does this feel professional? And if at any point you feel uncomfortable move? 

Robert Hanna 36:56 

Yeah, I think that’s true. And also, you know, at that level as well, you don’t need a qualified look still quite a lot to be to be learning. So there’s quite a lot of pressure there. In any event at the start of your career. I mean, this has been invaluable. I really enjoyed learning more about your career journey, high risk, and what you’re getting up to. So if our listeners want to know more, where can they reach out? What are the best websites, social media handles for yourself in high risk, and also make sure we share them with this episode for you too.

Kate Burt 37:20 

Definitely LinkedIn. Although you might start unfollowing me because I’m quite. That’s fine. I don’t mind. But yeah, so LinkedIn, keep it. I’m on LinkedIn, also. So we bought the hybrid, we bought And we’re very excited for that we did a bit more expensive. But yeah, funds on on our website, and there’s so much free stuff on there. And it shows you all about our services. But also, I’ve lost count the number of awesome videos that are on there that you can just watch. 

Robert Hanna 37:51 

Yeah, on something like this. You know. 

Kate Burt 37:55 

You can watch this. In fact, you might be watching this from the website. 

Robert Hanna 37:58 

Yeah, this is true. Well, thank you so much, Kate. It’s been absolute pleasure. Finally getting you on the legally speaking podcast, wishing you lots of continued success with your own career, high risk and future pursuits. And of course, looking forward to the GBL with you later this year. But for now, from all of us over now. 

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