“Fundamentally, it’s about people — and it always is about people.” – John Hutchinson 

On today’s Legally Speaking Podcast, I’m delighted to be joined by John Hutchinson. John is the managing partner of Broadfield UK, helping build a fast-growing international law firm around technology, client service, and pragmatic pricing. With a background in corporate law, private equity, and law-firm leadership, he sees modern legal services becoming more integrated with clients and less reliant on traditional hourly-rate models. His approach to growth centers on hiring entrepreneurial, resilient people; moving decisively; investing in technology without losing professional judgment; and maintaining trust, integrity, and a strong client-focused culture as the firm expands internationally.

So why should you be listening in? 

You can hear Rob and John discussing:

– Embracing AI and Technology to Transform Legal Services

– Building Client-Centred Relationships Through Greater Collaboration

– Moving Beyond the Billable Hour Towards Value-Based Pricing

– Scaling Internationally While Maintaining Culture and Quality

– Attracting Entrepreneurial Talent Through Innovation and Opportunity.

Connect with John Hutchinson here – https://uk.linkedin.com/in/john-hutchinson-bdbpitmans

Transcript

John Hutchinson (00:00)

Feeding something into chat GPT and producing an answer is not the same thing as having a legal opinion. If you get the right people, they can make things happen and they will overcome challenges. So you need people who are positive, innovative and who have gone into broad field with that same mindset. This is groundbreaking. This is different. We are servicing clients in a different way than some of the other firms out

I think there will be all sorts of changes in our relationship with our lawyers. We will be far less remote advisors with that barrier between us and our clients and far more integrated into what our clients do.

Robert Hanna (00:34)

On today’s Legally Speaking podcast, sponsored by Clio, I’m joined by John Hutchinson. John is the managing partner of Broadfield UK and the driving force behind one of the legal sector’s fastest growing international firms. Broadfield was launched in 2024 and has since grown into a 400-plus person international law firm. The firm has expanded across the UK, Europe, Hong Kong, New York, and most recently Brazil.

Along the way, the firm has attracted senior lawyers from leading international firms, including Goodwin, Sidley Austin, and Baker McKenzie, while developing a different model for delivering international legal services. Today we’re discussing what it takes to build and scale a modern law firm.

We’ll explore why the legal sector is ready for disruption, how technology is transforming legal delivery, and why clients increasingly value outcomes and how Broadfield is proving international capability does not have to come with premium pricing. So a very big warm welcome to the show, John.

John Hutchinson (01:34)

Very nice to be here, I’m delighted to be on.

Robert Hanna (01:37)

it’s an absolute pleasure to have you. And as I said off air, really looking forward to getting into today’s discussion. But before we do that, we’ve got a couple of cheeky icebreaker questions. Firstly, what’s your favorite beverage and what’s your preferred choice of footwear on a typical work day?

John Hutchinson (01:51)

Berridge is easy. The whole range of white burgundies is something that I am really happy to indulge in pretty well any time of the year, but particularly in the warmer days. And then footwear, I a sensible but classic shoe. That’s it. That’s where I come in every day.

Robert Hanna (02:12)

Good stuff. Okay, and then from footwear and drinks to technology, what’s one piece of legal tech or everyday technology that you now rely on daily that would’ve seemed unthinkable at the start of your career?

John Hutchinson (02:24)

I’d say as quickly as it’s happened, but Harvey is already assuming a big place in my life that I didn’t think it would even a year ago. and I think, you I suspect we’re going to end up talking about this on the podcast, but it’s not going to take over the legal profession, but AI, whether it’s Harvey, Claude, choose your medium is going to be with us all. And we all have to engage with it and embrace it. And it’s a fantastic step forward for legal practitioners.

Robert Hanna (02:54)

Yeah, and we we we second that as well. I think if nothing changes, nothing changes. And I think it’s an exciting time ahead for those that you say stay curious, adapt and want to embrace the AO revolution. But let’s go back a bit, John. Could you give us a short version of your journey from the beginning of your career in law to building a new type of international law firm?

John Hutchinson (03:12)

I started, gosh, many decades ago as a corporate lawyer and followed that path through till about 2007, ran the corporate department of what was then a boutique firm based out in the Thames Valley, doing mostly work with entrepreneurs, but private equity and banking. And then 2007.

with some clients, set up a private equity fund and was involved in that and ran, ended up as managing partner of that until about 2015 when some of the partners retired and I was asked to come back and run the law firm that I’ve been with for many years called Pittmans. Took a view when I came back that it was very good at what it did but merged it into a larger firm because I believe that scale is very important.

and combinations of services so that you service clients better. Retired for a life on the back benches as a partner and then in 2023 came back as managing partner of the merged firm. And then we’ll come on to Broadfield, but launch Broadfield with an organization called SHP in December 2024. That’s it. I’ve been managing partner of the UK part of Broadfield ever since.

Robert Hanna (04:34)

Yeah, and there’s a there’s a lot to to go through there. So let let’s stay with Broadfield then, because you know, you launched this new sort of international firm, it’s a unique opportunity for lawyers. What inspired you to actually start it?

John Hutchinson (04:46)

Client needs really and a great opportunity in the market to marry up two of the threads that I think are very important. One is embracing technology and having a robust technology offering that can move forward quickly. I think that’s essential. And then the second part is that range of institutional, primarily institutional but corporates that need an international offering and

may not be best serviced by some of the offerings out there at the moment. it’s getting it, creating something that could be scaled, that had a really strong technology backing, and could move quickly into other jurisdictions. So that was the rationale for Broadfield. We believe the clients wanted it.

Robert Hanna (05:32)

Yeah, and clearly I’m I’m gleaming your entrepreneurial lens there as well, of seeing how these opportunities present themselves and how you’ve been able to scale. So perhaps for people listening that are inspired by what you’ve done, talk us through some of maybe the lessons and learnings about how you’ve built Broadfield from the start and to where it is today generally and and anything you perhaps would have done differently given where you sit today from that experience.

John Hutchinson (05:55)

Sure. The most important thing is to find, you can’t do it on your own, so you must find collaborators who are going to work with you who have a similar vision, which is where the partnership with SHP comes in because they have the technology backbone that we and the other broad field offices.

So again, that’s about the ability to scale and that was a vision in common that we had that I have with them. So that’s been essential, having good partners who are similar minded. Otherwise you cannot expand quickly. just doesn’t work. I think things that I’ve learned is that if you get the right people, and this is a lesson in life generally, if you get the right people, they can make things happen and they will overcome challenges. So you need people who again are positive, innovative.

and who have gone into broad field with that same mindset that this is groundbreaking, this is different, and that we are servicing clients in a different way maybe than some of the other firms out there. So it’s getting the right people, it’s making sure you have the right technology and strategic partners. I think one of the common threads you’ll get through this is also that you make decisions quickly, you don’t lose sight of what’s important, because it’s really easy to get lost in background noise.

and you accept the fact that you’re gonna get some things wrong, because you will. And you just have to do that and move on. Otherwise you just can’t grow quickly, it’s impossible.

Robert Hanna (07:25)

Yeah, I think it’s one of the most sage pieces of advice. My late grandfather, who ran his own law firm and set it up, said to me, Laddie, a person who never made a mistake never existed. Just get on with it. And I think it was Yeah

John Hutchinson (07:34)

That’s exactly right.

Robert Hanna (07:37)

And yeah, I think it well, I talk a lot about this and listeners will be sick and tired of me saying this, but collaboration is domination. You’ve given a great example there of the collaboration partner and how that’s been able to sort of 10x your your scale, your velocity, your impact. So that sort of we is greater than me.

And you’re right, obviously I said on the legal recruiting side of things day to day, talent, you know, they are your your absolute everything. So getting the right people, but also with that mindset and that energy. You know, everything is energy. You want them to be positive and challenges are going to be part of every stage of growth of every new client, every new chapter. So being able to overcome that. So really good lessons in that. That leads nicely to your day to day, you know, as a managing partner. What does a typical day look like? I I sense they might be varied, but just give us a bit of a day on the life.

John Hutchinson (08:19)

Yeah, varied is exactly the word I would have used.

Robert Hanna (08:23)

Yeah.

John Hutchinson (08:25)

The most important thing for me is having the right people to do the bits that I’m maybe not so good at. So having a really good team and talking to them, making sure that there is nothing I’m missing that impedes them in delivering at the operational side. Talking to my partners, very important.

In fact, particularly talking to the partners who don’t have problems because they’re the ones that you tend to overlook and actually they’re really, you’ve got to make sure that they’re heard, the quieter ones. But talking to partners and making sure that you understand what’s going on, not just in the business overall, but in their particular parts of it. So that’s really key. And clients, love engaging with clients. One of the few sort of occasional early morning regrets I have is that

I don’t do the client work anymore generally because I really enjoy it. But I still maintain contact with clients and make sure that the client-facing culture, which is the other part of a modern law firm that we really try and emphasize in Broadfield, that ethos is delivered across the whole of the business. It’s incredibly important.

Robert Hanna (09:36)

Yeah, and it’s so important, isn’t it being that client centered law firm and not losing that. And I also love your your leadership style, just as I observe, I would call you an observer, you know, seeing perhaps those partners that aren’t the loudest, that aren’t shouting, but still investing that time to make them feel seen, heard and valued. And also staying humble in terms of the areas that you perhaps don’t know things and just elevate and delegate nicely to people who can get the job done far more efficiently. Okay, it’s all sounding great, but since launching, I think late twenty twenty four

You have expanded rapidly. You’ve talked about making decisions. You’ve talked about scaling. More than four hundred people worldwide. Fantastic, fantastic, fantastic. There are challenges. So what have been some of the biggest ones you’ve had to overcome? give us a bit of a flavor.

John Hutchinson (10:20)

pace of change and managing that not just as a business but also managing the inevitable strains that that can put on people. Forget just the business on people. They’ve got to adapt to a lot of new things. I mean in the space of nine months we have brought in Harvey, we brought in Salesforce, we’ve changed the net docs, we’ve done all sorts of things in the background on technology. You know upgrade our and

systemized all of our accounts packages so that everybody across the various countries that we operate in all work in the same way. It’s a huge amount and you have to occasionally give people a break and recognize that they can’t do it all perfectly. So it’s managing that while not letting up on the pace of change because if we’re going to fulfill our ambitions then we have to maintain.

that degree of investment in people, investment in technology, investment in understanding what our clients want, which is a big, big thing. So to do that, inevitably you will have some bouncing around on occasions. But it is through that not to lose sight of the overall goal, which is to create the international law firm that we believe a whole swathe of clients want to see and to grow the partnership across Broadfield.

globally and also through the technology and other infrastructure available through SHP, make sure that we keep that on an even keel while we expand. So yeah, they’re a strain inevitably, but we believe that it’s a great opportunity and we just need to seize it.

Robert Hanna (12:00)

Yeah, and as they say, new level, new devil. So as you continue to go through only new

John Hutchinson (12:04)

Yeah

Robert Hanna (12:06)

You’ve touched on the modern law firm and you’re very passionate about creating the modern law firm rather than recreating the traditional structure that’s been around since the day of t you know, test of time. So would you mind going into a little bit more detail what you’d believe a modern law firm looks like in twenty twenty six and indeed moving forwards and which parts of the traditional partnership model, if any, you think will stick around and which will no longer serve clients and thus not be needed?

John Hutchinson (12:33)

So I think a lot of it’s about context. I think that there are some firms where the old style partnership model can work and will continue to work. But I think that is probably a declining number. And that’s partly because there are more structures available for people to work through that reflect the need for both investment. And that can take different forms, but there’s no question when you look at all the stats.

Pretty well all law firms are recognizing that they have to invest for the long term in technology and people. So there is that, there’s more, there are more formats for people to work through and I think people are more open-minded about it. I believe that the client focus that we talked about earlier is key in this. I think that the teams that we have, the people that we have, the messaging that we give out, all of our communications has to be much more sensitive to client needs.

needs to have a greater level of understanding of what our clients want. And that’s partly because if you look at global legal spend, so much more of it now is controlled through GCs who expect you to understand their business and are quite understandably choosy about who they work with and why. So that can lead to greater stability and stronger relationships and more long-term.

But it can also lead to firms having to recognize quickly that parts of the business don’t fit with the key model that they have, the key services that they have. How do you deal with that? How do you lead your partners? How do you educate your partners? How do you make sure that they have all the opportunities they need? But also I think some of the structures that we have, of the goals that the business have will require a degree of fluidity that maybe wasn’t there. That sounds a bit brutal.

But actually, I think if you just look at the world around us, that’s exactly what has happened. And I think good management recognizes it.

Robert Hanna (14:34)

Yeah, like like you say, good good management will be alive to it as as as well. want to ask a specific question now. We’ve talked about sort of international law firms, but I want to dive into the the mid market level specifically just for a moment. what have been three key lessons you’ve learned whilst growing an international firm within that sort of mid market level? And because we have listeners from all walks of life and some entering the profession, it’d be great just to give a mini definition of mid market in simple terms so people know where we’re talking.

John Hutchinson (14:59)

I think I’d probably not use that phrase to describe us. This is something that we’ve looked around. There are clearly institutions who will always work with the enormous US and magic circle firms here, and we recognize that. But there’s a huge, huge swathe of work that can be done at all levels for all sorts of corporates.

all sorts of individuals or family offices, all sorts of organizations that we believe actually just needs to be connected up better through a platform. And that’s how we see it. we believe that we can offer services and so rather than call it mid-market, I just look at that underserved, underappreciated in some cases, range of work and range of people and range of companies that we think are just actually

ideally suited to our platform. We think that there’s a huge, huge amount out there that can be serviced and it isn’t a bracket, it’s actually all the service lines and all the opportunities that we can generate out of all sorts of businesses.

Robert Hanna (16:11)

I can just see that growth mindset and that entrepreneurial lens seeing that again, seeing the huge opportunities and that sort of blue ocean opportunity potentially a ahead of you. Very exciting. Okay, one of Broadfield’s strengths is crafting comprehensive customized solutions that align with your clients’ priorities and budget. Emphasis on budget on the end. So how have you been able to implement this model into the firm?

John Hutchinson (16:32)

think

one of the advantages of starting from a platform as we have is that we are not addicted to the incremental growth in charge out rates that maybe doesn’t reflect clients wishes that we see from, and we hear that from GCs, we hear it from our clients. Pricing models, particularly with the advent of AI, as every law firm recognizes, are under scrutiny and we have to be more intelligent about how we approach pricing.

But the key message that we want to get across to the market is that we are not looking for a bargain basement service. It’s not us because we can’t provide the services that we do on that basis. But we are sensitive to client cost needs. And we believe that in some areas, the blanket approach of chargeout rates that are not necessarily consistent with what the client wants, we think is driven pricing out of control in one or two areas. And we think that there are very healthy businesses

that can charge more sensible pricing and still offer a premium service. And that’s how we see ourselves. We’re not addicted to the crazy chargeout rates that you’re seeing from some of the larger international firms. And I use that word crazy. think if you’re a client, that is how you would regard them.

Robert Hanna (17:51)

And we we we appreciate your your your insights and and candor as well. Let’s talk about building this global platform then, just get into your strategic thinking because the firm has expanded, Hong Kong, New York, even Brazil, I think recently. So when deciding where Broadfield will go next, what factors are most important and how do you maintain you’ve talked about this a little bit about the firm culture as you grow across multiple jurisdictions?

John Hutchinson (18:16)

I think the objectives that we set out in December 24 remain consistent. We’re not interested in being in every single market in the world because we don’t think that we can maintain the firm culture and provide the range of services and the quality of services that we need to do to keep our client base. We’re interested in those key jurisdictions where we know there’s a lot of international business activity and a need for what we do.

And, you know, I can articulate it the same way that I think we did way back in December, way back in December 24. It seems way back. It’s actually not very long ago, but the US, the UK, East Asia, key jurisdictions in mainland Europe and then significant jurisdictions alongside that Brazil being one that we found a really good group of people who were aligned with our thought. was super. Brazil is obviously a hugely interesting market.

But it is growing along that spine and making sure that we are providing really meaningful services in those areas. Scale, that’s really our objective. So we’re not going to be in every market in the world. We’re not looking at doing that. We’re looking at being in the key ones that we think help clients.

Robert Hanna (19:31)

Today’s episode is brought to you by Clio. If you’re spending more time managing your practice than practicing law, it’s time for a change. Clio is the intelligent legal work platform built for modern solicitors, combining context-aware AI with trusted legal research to help you work smarter, not harder. Switching is easier than you might think. Clio’s dedicated migration teams handled your client and case data every step of the way.

So you can focus on what matters most, your clients. Plus award-winning support 24-5 via live chat, phone, and email means help is always on hand when you need it. Visit Clio.com forward slash UK to find out why thousands of UK solicitors trust Clio. Now back to the show. We touched on before you’re saying sort of crazy rates. Let’s stick on the disruption side of the legal profession. You’ve told us about what you think the modern law firm looks like.

You’ve also shared that the sort of legal market is becoming increasingly focused on value rather than the the hour hourly rates, the good old billable hours. So why do you believe the legal sector is so ripe for disruption now and have your client expectations changed in recent times?

John Hutchinson (20:43)

think it’s combination of things. think that clients are more sophisticated and slightly more well-weary in approaching legal costs. And that’s understandable. I don’t think any industry sees anything different. But I think that’s also aligned with the change in approach to technology and the fact that our clients expect us to deploy it. It’s a huge enabler for us. And then that has a knock on consequences into client service.

the pricing discussions that I’m sure every major law firm is having. the market is ripe for disruption because if you start from a platform that has moved upwards using an hourly chargeout rates as your yardstick for everything, then it’s very hard to climb back from that. There are huge and there are some great firms, obviously some of the very large firms have phenomenal management, phenomenal resource, phenomenal lawyers. So I’m in no way being disrespectful.

but it’s actually changing your model and being more agile so that you link up the technology that’s now available, which is a force multiplier for lawyers everywhere, with client expectations. And I do think that there has been a significant change over the last few years in clients’ willingness to accept uncritically that the hourly chargeout rate is the yardstick they could go by.

Robert Hanna (22:07)

Interesting. So d do you see a future for the billable hour?

John Hutchinson (22:11)

Yes, I think there are parts of the law where it will retain its value. I think that litigation is the obvious one. It’s probably harder to move away from the billable hour in litigation. But I think in most other areas, we will see a hybrid approach, which will be some connection to the billable hour because it does matter. We don’t want to just have a pure technology solution.

But then I think there will be value-based billing which will incorporate the tech aspect as well.

Robert Hanna (22:46)

Folks

should check out our episode with Sean Jardine, who’s very passionate about value based pricing and his penguin if you want to see what he’s talking about. I mean, not to labour the point though, but I think it is an i an interesting one because like you’ve we’ve referenced, some of these firms are increasing their rates, salary rates every year. And you know, you’re definitely taking a different approach. So maybe to inspire or educate or inform people in law firms, how do

Do you create more value for clients without charging more? Because we talk a lot about the judgment, the freeing up of time, et cetera, et cetera. But just give us maybe a practical example.

John Hutchinson (23:19)

I picked that up, I just nuanced what you said there because I think clients are prepared to pay and they are prepared to pay full value for work that’s done by sufficiently skilled people who provide them with what they need. it’s not a case that all pricing is going to fall off a cliff because I don’t think that’s true. But I think you need to articulate to your clients better what they are getting for the money that they pay. I think lawyers have on occasion not been very good at that.

So I think that that constant communication with clients, setting expectations correctly, doing the simple things on change management as you go forward, project management as you go forward, I think that all of those things feed into it. And it’s not a one-way street on pricing, but it is going to be about justification, explanation, and fulfilling expectations for clients.

Robert Hanna (24:12)

Well said. And I I love that you and it seems part of your leadership as well is just constant communication, be that internally with that you your clients, setting expectations, whatever. And that leads nicely to talent again. And you I sit in this world day to day sort of recruiting for for law firm. You’ve attracted some really good firms, you know, Goodwin, Sidley, Baker McKenzie. Why are experienced lawyers choosing a younger, more entrepreneurial firm? What are the conversations you’re having with these candidates, which you may not have been happening

You know, even just a few years ago.

John Hutchinson (24:42)

I think you hit some of the key keywords there, entrepreneurial and younger in mindset, he said diplomatically. But it is, it’s people who’ve got, in some of the words you used right at the beginning of this podcast, it’s engagement. It’s being interested in the future profile of law firms and how you will serve as clients. Those are the people who tend to take this message on board really well, who see the opportunity, who’ve seen

that we have achieved over the last 18 months. Really pretty spectacular growth. We’re in the key markets we said we would be. And so there is a story to get behind. I think they also look at the market around them. They see that the technology-enabled firms are the ones who are going to be able to provide the best service to clients. And I think that they see also a lot of pressures arising from firms that

haven’t got a differentiator. They know that that’s going to put pressure on those business models. And so they talk to us. And we believe we can provide a great home for people who are innovative, entrepreneurial, forward-looking, and want to engage with the global opportunity and the tech opportunities that we offer.

Robert Hanna (25:58)

Yeah, sounds sounds fantastic. And the the time is now, isn’t it, for people who want to get involved with that sort of organization. Okay, from the spoken word to the written word, you know, in your law three sixty article, AI makes law firm change management a client issue. You delve into why AI adoption is no longer simply a technology initiative, but a broad business transformation challenge that directly affects client probability and quality. So

I guess looking forwards then, as you say, you’re continuing to look forward, you’re innovative. You know, how are AI and technology going to be shaping the future of legal services? And what are you most excited about?

John Hutchinson (26:33)

I’m constantly surprised, I freely admit, at the pace of change. think it will be one of the challenges is just getting expectations right. AI is an enabler. It’s a false multiplier, call it what you will. It is not a solution in itself. And I think that is something that we need to get to a common base with our clients on.

you know, feeding something into chat GPT and producing an answer is not the same thing as having a legal opinion. So there’s that and it never will be in my view. It’s the ability to use the technology intelligently to engage with it in the right way so that you give the best service to clients.

I think that will spread out into all sorts of areas where it isn’t at the moment. I think it will feed into cost models, think, and pricing models. I think it will feed into a much more integrated relationship with clients. I think that the communications will become much more collaborative. I think the communications will be instant. I think there will be all sorts of changes in the way in our relationship with our lawyers. We will be…

in many cases, far less remote advisors with that barrier between us and our clients and far more integrated into what our clients do. And I think for me, that’s one of the most interesting aspects. How do we get there?

What does that look like where you’re providing the best client value but also maintaining that integrity that all lawyers must have, that you need to have that objectivity to provide proper client advice at a time when you can see it happening, clients quite reasonably expect you to be available. We’re going to see a much closer integration into every process that we have with our clients.

Robert Hanna (28:22)

Yeah, and it’s gonna be exciting to to to see. Yeah, and you’re obviously gonna be leading that process. So back to manage a partner lessons, thoughts, you know, you’re going through rapid expansion. you’re gonna continue to do that, it’s very clear from this conversation. So if you’re advising managing partners or legal entrepreneurs, people out there looking to go through this sort of, you know, rapid pace of change and embrace the surroundings, what key skills do you think you need as a modern leader in the legal world to succeed?

John Hutchinson (28:52)

Fundamentally, it’s about people and it always is about people. The tech is an enabler. The changes in the legal market internationally and nationally are context, but you have to have the right people. And I think there’s an increasing focus, there should be an increasing focus, on bringing people into your businesses who are like-minded, who are entrepreneurial and who engage with the technology and accept the fact that everybody is on the front line.

You are all on the front line dealing with clients. It is absolutely essential that you use the tech to service people correctly, but that you engage even more with your clients. So it’s all about the people, developing them, making sure that they’ve got access to the resource they need, making sure that you’re helping them to be the best versions of themselves. like a school teacher, but it is that. And that really, think, is the job of the managing partner is developing your people and making sure that they’re given the tools so that when they meet the clients,

They have all the things they need to provide a great service. That’s really, think, what the main job is going forward.

Robert Hanna (29:56)

So we’ve talked a lot about you sort of helping others. I think one of the biggest understudied things is actually, well, who helps the leaders? So how do you make sure that you’re developing? Do you have mentors? Do you have courses? What what what are you doing or how do you ensure for your own sort of development and growth, what would be your strategy or advice to other managing partners that are doing all of the great work that you’re saying, but making sure that they’re also looking after themselves? Yeah.

John Hutchinson (30:19)

Yeah,

I think that’s a really good question. And a fair one. One of the big things that I’m benefiting from is exposure to leaders in the in the other jurisdictions that Broadfield operates in. There are some great people there who’ve had a different path to managing management than I’ve had from the one I’ve had and yet they’re great to be around.

I’d spend time particularly with the Hong Kong office and Effie Vassilopoulos out there is outstanding. Our Brazilian colleagues who’ve just come on board absolutely aligned with what we want to do. But also I mentioned our alignment with SHP. And because SHP leadership involves Peter Sacrapanti, Chris Price, these are all guys who have headed up global firms and global organizations.

it’s great to bounce things off them and also to learn things from them. So that’s where I get most of my education, inspiration and resilience from these days.

Robert Hanna (31:22)

Key word there, resilience as well, because you it’s not all plain sailing as we’ve we’ve discussed in terms of challenges, but but indeed the opportunities that come with that. I’ll I’ll talk about get your view on the future of the legal market for law firms, but I want to get your view on the the future lawyer because you know the role of a a lawyer is is is changing. So if you’re advising the next generation coming through

Well, firstly, what do you think the future lawyer looks like? And what do you think are some of the key skills and experiences that you should be thinking about developing or continue developing if you’re mid career right now to to future proof yourself?

John Hutchinson (31:54)

All lawyers everywhere that are under pressure from the changes that are going on in the market, so I’ll speak about new lawyers coming in, it’s easier. But I think we must maintain the core values that we have as lawyers. I don’t think it’s old fashioned to say that integrity is at the heart of the profession. And people will respect you as a lawyer if you constantly show that and not just get swept along in technology and that closeness to clients and all those other things that will…

will draw you in and are a danger sometimes to maintaining objectivity. I go back to technology, use it intelligently, do not let it run you. Because I think that that well, we’ve already heard the horror stories from various corporate world of where it’s gone wrong. So I think don’t lose sight of the core values. But I think engage and be flexible.

and actually seek out opportunities for yourselves too, because I think that’s one of the things that I’ve observed as people have adopted technology here. We’ve learned some of the best lessons from people who have just effectively freestyled and said, I wouldn’t do it that way. I’d do this differently. And these are the capabilities of the tech. Listen to them. That’s great. And I think that the law of the future as they go forward, I think the opportunities for

individual experimentation and contribution as a result, I think that’s a huge opportunity for people coming into the profession.

Robert Hanna (33:23)

Yeah, I I love that you sort of really double down on integrity as well. you know, particularly in everything the fast moving world and it’s easy to cut corners and it’s easier to do X, Y, and Z. And again, it goes back to my late grandfather used to say to me, live respected, die regretted. And I think it’s so true, isn’t it? Into where you operate and what you do, you know, commanding that respect through the actions you take. I think that’s always how you’ll be you’re remembered and regarded and your reputation is very important, particularly in a regulated industry as well. Particularly if you’re looking to grow and scale and take that around the the world. So so thank you for sort of really

Stressing that point. Okay, looking at the future then of legal services from a law firm perspective, how do you see them evolving in the coming years? You know, it’s I know it can change monthly, but you know, models, capabilities, client expectations, how do you see things evolving?

John Hutchinson (34:07)

think that there will probably be wider offerings than there are today. I’m a fan of lawyers being lawyers and doing that solely. I think that the range of, you look at corporate finance for example, think that the range of technology available means that there will probably be the possibility of expansion across borders between us and some of the CF houses, for example.

I think that HR is another example where you can see that employment and HR will begin to cross over because the capabilities will all be there through technology. So I think that that is one trend that there will be an expansion of services that are offered in some cases. But I go back to what’s the real key to the use of the technology? It’s always to get closer to the client.

So I think closer integration with client services is going to be a feature of the law firm of the future. That is more open communications, more integration between everything from finance systems through to the comms that go out. I think that is what we’re going to see with future law firms.

Robert Hanna (35:13)

Yeah, and I I I tend to tend to agree with you. A a reflective question now. What’s been the biggest success for Broadfield to date? And sort of again looking forward, what would you like Broadfield to be known for?

John Hutchinson (35:24)

I think the biggest success we’ve had is actually delivering on the message we set out at the beginning. You know, as I say, we’re 20 months in, I said 18 a minute ago, but actually it’s about 20 months in. And we have opened up in multiple jurisdictions. We have moved into those key areas that we said were important to develop a global law firm, private equity.

funds, infrastructure, &A, these areas that we think are ripe for disruption by a firm like us offering a global perspective to clients. So we’ve done that. I think that’s probably the biggest satisfaction that I have from this exercise over the last 20 months or so.

I think we just need to, we need to keep delivering that, not lose our identity, not get into the noise, but just continue with a great deal of purpose to create the law firm internationally that we said we would at the outset.

Robert Hanna (36:27)

Okay.

So pressing you, what would you want people the three words if you could sort of ideate for people to if they say Broadfield, what three words would you like them to be using to describe the firm?

John Hutchinson (36:37)

I think innovative, client-centric, which is sort of one word, and trusted. I think trusted at all levels is really important. And that means trusted, not just the people, but the brand, the ability to move forward with clients, all of those other things. I think those are probably the three words I would pick if you include the hyphenated one in there.

Robert Hanna (37:04)

definitely going to give you that because I’ve I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and before we let you go, just a final sort of advice question and you can wrap in some of the points that you’ve you’ve already shared if you like. But it’s a a complete the sentence question. So if you had to complete this sentence, how would you finish it? The law firm of the future will not be defined by its size but its ability to…

John Hutchinson (37:25)

Serve.

Robert Hanna (37:27)

Like it. Like it. And and so true as well. John, I’ve really enjoyed today’s discussion. Really enjoyed learning about your own journey, but also your your growth mindset, your ambitions, your not loss of sight of people in line of the tech revolution and all the great work that you’re doing to bring value. I feel like it’s a very exciting time for you and the firm. So

Many, many congratulations on what you have done and what we’ll continue to do. And I’m sure this inspired a lot of our listeners and watchers around the world. So if they want to know more about Broadfield or indeed potentially look to apply or indeed find out more about yourself, what are some of the best social media handles or websites for people to go to to get some more information?

John Hutchinson (38:04)

Yeah, LinkedIn is obviously a good one. We produce a lot of content there. But the websites for the firm are actually really informative and updated regularly. Take a look at this, because we are expanding quickly, there’s always new people on there, new services and new things that we’ve done. So I would say that just keep an eye on us because we will be making more announcements in the near future.

Robert Hanna (38:27)

Very exciting. Well, just as we say thanks so much once again, John, for joining me today on the League of Stream Podcast, sponsored by Clear. It’s been an absolute pleasure wishing you and everyone at the firm lots of continued success. But from now, from all of us, over and out. Thank you for listening. If you like the content here, you’re in the the best reading content and collaborations of the legal club over on discord. Go to our website www.legallyspeakingpodcast.com as a link to join our community there. Over and out!