Explore the complexities of a cross-jurisdiction legal career with your host, Rob Hanna, and this episode’s guest, William Peake, the Global Managing Partner at Harneys. They covered everything from essential global leadership skills to the importance of justice, equality, diversity and inclusion in a worldwide firm.  

So why should you be listening in?  

You can hear Rob and William discussing:  

• A typical day in William’s role 

• Some of his most interesting cases 

• The challenges of building a global career  

• Customer lifetime value  

• Leaving a lasting legacy 

Transcript

Rob Hanna 00:00 

Welcome to the legally speaking podcast. I’m your host Rob Hanna. This week I’m delighted to be joined by William peak William is the global managing partner of harneys. A global offshore law firm William has expertise in litigation restructuring and insolvency. As an offshore litigator, William is consistently recognised in legal 500 and chambers, and as an excellent lawyer, a super smart operator and well known Cayman lawyer. Prior to joining harneys, William was an associate attorney and Associate Solicitor in the litigation and insolvency group at maples and colder. William is admitted as a solicitor in Ireland, England and Wales, Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court and as an attorney at law in the Cayman Islands. So a very big warm welcome, William.  

William Peake 00:47 

Robert, thank you very much for having me really pleased to be here.  

Rob Hanna 00:51 

Oh, it’s an absolute pleasure to have you on the show before we go through your amazing career and all the great projects you’re getting involved with. For the legal community. We do have a customary icebreaker question here on the legally speaking podcast, which is on a scale of one to 1010 being very real, what would you rate the hit TV series suits in terms of its reality of the law? If you’ve seen it? 

William Peake 01:14 

So I am ashamed to say that I have not seen suits and I would like to debunk any myth that lawyers will lie to answer any questions. So I’m going to be straight up on that I have I’ve never seen it. But I’ve heard it’s an excellent documentary.  

Rob Hanna 01:29 

And with that, we will give it a fair rating of zero based on you’ve not seen it swiftly on to talk all about you, William. So would you mind by kicking off telling our listeners a bit about your background and career journey?  

William Peake 01:41 

Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So I very boringly studied law at university. So law in Trinity College, Dublin. I did that because I wanted to be a lawyer and I thought you had to do lot study to become a lawyer. So it was fairly narrow minded view. I then trained in a firm in Dublin, that was taken over by one of the leading offshore firms during my training, contract metals and colder, and that really give me a licence to travel around the Caribbean, which is something that I was extremely privileged to do. I was newly qualified, I was going to make the predictable journey to London. They gave me an opportunity to work in their Kanaan office, in their BVI office, and other kind of ended up drifting around the Caribbean for around nearly around two decades. And then came back to London, I always wanted to live in London, it took a year, I’d actually to dabble in some stand up comedy, became bored of selling out do to every night, actually realised that you know what, let’s let’s get back into law, let’s get some time sheets back into your life to joined, joined harneys, which was a real gear change for me real breath of fresh air because I’ve only ever been in one firm before that. joined harneys as a Senior Associate in 2014, then became a partner in I think 2007 teen and then became a global managing partner on the first of January last year. So yeah, so it’s been Yeah, it’s been a riot. It’s been a ride. 

Rob Hanna 03:29 

Yeah. And it’s amazing how you’re selling out the OT like that. I’m just thinking ahead to next foray on the mic. I’d like to see it. But I mean, that’s an impressive journey and the things that you’ve been and achieved and been on. But let’s talk about the President because you are the global Managing Partner, as you say, what does a typical day look like for you? What are some of your responsibilities? And maybe how’s that changed as you become more senior throughout your career?  

William Peake 03:57 

Yeah, that’s, that’s a really good question, which is code lawyer code for stolen. But basically, through like a typical day for me, I get up around. I get up around half, five. I make myself a cup of tea. I do start spending through my emails. Immediately. I know that’s not best practice. There should be some meditation. There should be some reading. There should be some. You know, we’re waking up with some downward dogs. But basically, what am I doing there? I’m busy trying to triage and work out what are the most important things for me to deal with. But I didn’t know the day before. And my day actually starts the night before because I tried to list the three things that I’m trying to achieve on the next day. I’m constantly revisiting revisiting that list. I chair the firm’s Executive Committee, which sets the firm’s strat IGA and the firm’s cultural agenda. So I spend a lot of time checking in with my partners and making sure that they are supported and what they’re trying to achieve. I spend a lot of time dealing with the business services side of the business. And I also spend a lot of time with, with clients of the firm leading clients and my own clients myself, what am I trying to do there, I’m trying to speak to why harneys is different in the offshore space, I take a really strong view that our hourly rates are high, I take a really strong view that people have an expectation as a result of that. And everybody if you work for harneys, and maples and walkers in the offshore space, you it the very least that the client can expect that isn’t the legal advice is right. But they will not have an expectation that you’re somebody who they actually want to work with on a repeat basis. That’s the bit that I’m trying to really encourage our lawyers to think about. But extra value add that makes clients think about her knees, and mix them mix them come back to us. So that’s my kind of, yeah, that’s a kind of fairly decent reflection of what a typical day looks like for me. 

Rob Hanna 06:22 

Yeah, and I think he gives some really, really good lessons in there as well. I think he’ll stellar artwork could be butchering this reassuringly expensive but you know, you get what you pay for. And then you talk a lot about what I taught when I’m mentoring people about the see CLV that customer lifetime value, and how can you really extract that from you know, the the intake piece through to the initial piece to then all the way through to delivering services and getting into your clients networks, and the referrals and the reputation and in really squeezing the juice as much as you can. Because it’s, it’s hard to get new clients, but it’s hard to keep delighting your existing clients. And if you can do that they’re going to be loyal, totally. 

William Peake 06:57 

And the other thing is this, this is a long game. And, you know, I’m always reminded of instruction came in last year for us with one of the leading IP firms who were looking to open up in the same jurisdictions that we have in the Caribbean, and in Bermuda, in BVI. And then in came on, and I know Bermuda is not in the Caribbean. So I’m just back from there last week, I know for a fact that it’s not so before before the royal Gazette writes in to me to clarify that point. But, but that was a that was a relationship that I had been nurturing for seven years for meeting an individual, a drinks event in Jones Day. And that was a result of I just kept taking a load why I really liked the person. So it was no burden at all. But I wasn’t pushy, and I wasn’t constantly setting out our wares, I wasn’t changing the gears from talking about what’s going on in the industry to oh, this is something that harneys did that was amazing. And using harneys as a known adjective and a verb to convince the person that we’re the firm to go with. And I think that it’s so hard not to have that posture and that self belief that the work will come to you. As long as you’re not pushy. There’s absolutely a scale and a nuance to demonstrating your firm’s ability to provide value. But I see so many examples of pushy young lawyers. No, and I just don’t think I just don’t think it’ll ever work, 

Rob Hanna 08:45 

it won’t. And the reality is, nobody likes to feel like they’re being sold to and the art of you know, ultimately, relationships and sales is people feeling like they’re not being sold to it’s a natural organic exchange. And I always talk about, you know, the contact is good as, but it’s the relationship that ultimately pay in the end. And the more that you can nurture that with value and come from a place of, you know, real meaning, you know, so there’s, there’s really you’re putting yourself in their shoes, rather than I’m the lawyer, I’m trying to think of ways that I can make myself look good is actually thinking it from the other lens. And the more that they’ll understand that you understand them, the value you give to them, the more they’re likely to transact with you in the end. So I love your way of thinking. And you’re right, because there is also no such thing as a, you know, a quick win, you know, there might be a one or two but for longevity, you’ve got to be prepared to invest. And it’s similar to how I set up my first company, the legal recruitment firm Katie partners, I went so early into the early generation of lawyers that the legal graduates because the household brands had been established for years and years and years, I was never going to compete with that. So I was prepared to pay an eight 910 year game and get into digital marketing podcasting and meet them where they’re at. And legal careers advice them all the way through their journey to get that customer lifetime value and get into their ecos Just early through value add. So I think we both have great lines of thinking around this. But that’s me. I’m shutting up because I’ve got a really good question. I want to ask you next, I promise. And that’s you have a whole range of a whole range of cases. And I know it’s difficult to sort of highlight one. But is there one particular case over the years that you’ve handled that’s been particularly interesting to you? And if so, why so? 

William Peake 10:22 

Absolutely. It is a running joke in harneys, amongst the litigation team, that it takes me within three to four seconds of any work based conversation to refer to the sad litigation. So there will be a number of people internally when you said, I know, I know you’ll really struggle to pick one key is they will, they will step out their cigarette in the ashtray and say, or Freitag, and say, No, he won’t do because he keeps talking about. So yeah, look, I was very lucky when I joined harneys to take over a case that essentially defined my career because look, career trajectories and law firms. Yes, they happen if you’re a personable individual. Yes, they happen if you win work, etc, etc, etc. But the reality is that every gateway for your career for your promotions, the first page that leaves that application, our numbers on the board, what have you actually brought in in terms of in terms of billable work, and that is a harsh reality that a lot of people it’s a nettle that people don’t grasp, and they talk around the other things that will always be the foundation for a successful legal career. I joined harneys I took over the it’s known as the sad litigation, still still ongoing. It is a remarkably complex piece of cross border litigation that resulted in the longest trial in the history of the Commonwealth, which was 13 months in the Cayman Islands. And then the longest appeal in the Commonwealth, six weeks in front of the caveman court of appeal. And now it’s heading towards heading towards the Privy Council. And that is a case that saw me travel from New York to Geneva to Alka bar, which is the capital of the Eastern Province in Saudi Arabia, as I’m sure you’ll be aware, by reason, Dubai came to BVI actually on it as well. So that was a case where by I lived and breathed that for for nine years. A couple of years ago, when I was changing roles internally, the Senior Associate Counsel Abed ly partner Granja King, ticket over so Grundy, King noi has the key kind of client relationship I double in the case much to grow on yours relief and joy every time I decided to ask a question on it. But that’s been a remarkable case for harneys as well, because it is something that we were really well really well recognised for. And taught me taught me so much around how to, you’ll win work as much from your opponents, as you will from the people that you’re alongside. And, you know, Andrew forward who acted for the delicacy of the family, in that litigation has become a genuine friend of mine and somebody who I refer work to he refers work to me, I really enjoy really enjoy His company. And that’s somebody you know, who you’re meant to be sworn enemies off for for nine years. And that’s all very exhausting. litigators and lawyers more generally need to remember that. It’s not about you. It’s about it’s about the clients. And if you’re taping, narcissistic self congratulatory possessions on litigation to pump air into your own tires. But that’s not a real word solid, actually, let’s hope we can add about it. But that’s, you know, that’s that’s something that’s never going to be in the client’s interest, basically. So, yeah, it was a remarkable case. Very lucky that it ended up on my desk and yeah, to find to find my career, Robert, to be honest with you. 

Rob Hanna 14:44 

Yeah. And you There’s so many great lessons in there as well. And, you know, this is huge, you know, over $9 billion, I believe so, you know, it really is, you know, unprecedented. And you gave a really good nugget there in terms of I always talk about, you know, don’t Think of competition through collaboration. And you gave a really good example there. I’ve actually you said you should perhaps potentially be at loggerheads, but actually have respect, you know, there’s potential ways that you can both help one another. And there’s nothing wrong with doing your job very well. But having an opponent but also having a relationship and like you say, getting almost getting above yourself and potentially your ego. Yeah, exactly, about exactly right for for the client. And so I love that. And I have a lot of those relationships with other sort of, you know, people in the legal recruitment and talent space, you know, where we try and refer work, maybe it’s in a location, I’m not best serve, maybe it’s in an area, I have lower quality, reach, whatever it may be. So you know, think of collaboration as domination. And I think if you switch to that mindset, and a more modern approach to doing business, you’ll be far more successful. So let’s talk about challenges because it’s all well and good, let’s talking about the good stuff, but no one gets anywhere without being punched on to the you know, getting something in their face and getting put on the floor and steps backwards and having all of these challenges, but you’ve built a market leading litigation practice London, Cayman offices, you name it, but what have been some of those challenges along the way as you’ve been building over the years.  

William Peake 16:08 

Yeah, no challenges was so easy. Yeah, look, I mean, that looked up that particular road was littered with with potholes. And first of all, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t achieve any of that on my on my own. I wasn’t even the tip of the spear. Joining harneys in London, very lucky to work with Philip K to who was the Global Head of litigation. And the challenge there, I think, was a brand awareness piece. I actually really struggled at the time moving from a firm that everybody knew in Maple. So I would say Maples near would open up doors. For me, it was very, very straightforward. Whereas at the time, harneys, was known as a BVI law firm. It was known as the second biggest employer in the BVI. Everybody knew who they were, but our market presence in London wasn’t wasn’t real. And Phil and myself set about wrestling with that. We did that through relentless kind of business development. And we did it through recognising that we weren’t selling harneys, we were selling the jurisdictions that we were in. Because in London, there was a when you’re dealing with people who haven’t been exposed offshore, there is a slight, you know, what is this? I don’t think it’s snobbery. But it’s kind of, well, you will live and work in the southern WaterLife. And we had to break down some kind of prejudices there. We also had to remind people that although we were lawyers in London, we weren’t practising English law. So that was a very reassuring message. And that’s the absolute joy of being an offshore lawyer is I can sit down for lunch with, you know, somebody from Michigan’s somebody from doomsday and somebody from enter path. And nobody are not trying to cut anybody’s lunch. And that is just where the alchemy occurs. So I am conducting the orchestra and I’m making referrals. I and it was a good example of that recently. You know, our annual hackathon event, you know, at my table was Barnaby stoke from Jones Day Kima. Paul Lumbergh from Hogan Lovells Robin Jones from mish gardens, and you know, just the three of them getting together, you know, they all work in the same space, the referral opportunities are huge. And that’s good that sometimes is my currency is knowing people in the market and joining all those joining all those dots. So the caveman piece, again, I’m spending a lot of time there because of the sod litigation. So I was watching that extremely closely. We made a great hire with with Nick Hoffman, who’s our non political head of litigation, a neck just drove drove that practice forward supported by some really wonderful people there with you know, Granja King, Jess Williams. I’m always loath to start naming people because I’ll obviously forget I’m a fan and but, but it’s been but it’s been brilliant. You know, recently we appointed Ben Hopton and Jess Williams as our CO heads of of litigation in caveman, which is mirroring the Clara Goldstein Krispies combo in BVI I used to be so, um, T co heads because I always thought it looked like a real cowpokes And then we got it right with Claire and Chris. Actually, if you get complimentary personalities together, this works really well. So we’ve we’ve done the CMA and came on. And now I’m really proud to say that, you know, we do have, we’ve got a really, really strong name in in the market. And we’ve achieved that through lots lots of lots of hard work, and lots of joined up joined up thinking, do we get it right all the time? Absolutely not. Are we trying to get it right all the time? Yes, we are. I’ve gone full Championship Manager there for you. 

Rob Hanna 20:39 

Well know, the passions there, the energy is there. But again, picking through that you’ve made good key strategic hires, you’ve structured the leadership at the right level, like you say the old saying two heads are better than one. But you know, leadership can also be lonely. So actually having that CO option, you know, you can actually bring perspectives together to reach a solution faster. So in a way, there’s an argument to be far more efficient, to deliver that. And a chemos. Lovely, a Kim has also been a former guest on the latest being podcast, Oh, great. To go and check out her episode, as well. She’s a big, big advocate for sort of lots of things that we have similarities and passions around, particularly around diversity, equity, inclusion, and great work. So I also love that you, you know, don’t take the credit, because one of my mentors said to me very early on, you know, don’t ever forget team because we is always greater than me. And like you say, you know, you have been part of this, and you’ve had the privilege to be leading it in recent times. But there’s been a lot of people along the way that have really helped contribute to that. So I love that sort of line of thinking, Okay, let’s stick on this in terms of where you sit today. Because, you know, I’m all about holding people to account. So when you were appointed as global Managing Partner, you explained your primary focus is to continue to drive the firm’s reputation for innovation and delivery of client, excellent service. How are you achieving this? 

William Peake 21:57 

So I think I’m achieving it via that point around accountability, holding people accountable to it. And we had our senior leadership conference this year, and it was based on three pillars around accountability, profitability, and collaboration. And I think the word profitability if you only focus on that, you get to the wrong place. But if you complimented valance certain Schroeder with accountability and collaboration, you get all of the good things coming coming together. The the innovation piece is something that remains something we’re really, really proud of, we have actually a kind of designated unit that looks at that with Richard Carlton. Internally, we call it here to tech Hardee’s, we have as the outward facing piece. And, you know, we’re we’re on a We’re on a journey, they’re very hipster, we’re going to cure any man. And it’s going on, it’s going look, it’s going really well. And Richard’s a great guy for he is really excellent. As always, when I lose the run of myself, because I can go slightly old school and say, Hold on a second, can we not get a to do that. And he’s like, when you’re really showing yourself up as an opposite moral. And when you say that, you’ve got to, you’ve got to remember that AI will not make you smarter, but it will make you faster, and it will make you more efficient. And so that’s our kind of guiding principle internally. And it’s something that we are, you know, I meet every month with that team to go through go through their list of list of projects. So that’s the accountability there. And the impeccable client service is something that again, I think, at any lawyers, you know, if you’re working in a firm of our calibre, you, the least you can expect is the legal answer to the right. But I want it to be more than that I want us to be recognised for being personable dynamic. Somebody who you want to be in the trenches with that. When those hard questions are on your desk. The first person you think of is Lishi. Phone in Singapore is Nancy, in Cyprus, I just want you thinking about these are the people who can solve my problems and solve it in a way that makes me feel good about myself. Makes me feel that I did the right thing by phoning my lawyers. And obviously, that’s what I’m kind of mildly obsessed with getting. 

Rob Hanna 24:51 

And you have to be obsessed and I love that you talk about accountability, because it’s one thing that I’m really passionate about educating people and also having out accountability listeners, there’s no point listening to this show if you don’t go away and take some practical tactical steps to to implement the knowledge because again, a mentor said to me, and I said, it’s time and time again on the show, if it’s meant to be, it’s up to me, right? Taking self accountability, and really driving yourself forward, you stand every chance of getting somewhere. Because when you’re pointing the finger, everyone needs to remember there’s many more fingers pointing back at you. So I love that you have that sort of mindset. I love that you talk about collaboration, because these are all values that we share with on the show, I touched on it before with the chemo, we’re going to talk a little bit more because it is an important topic. And there is more that still needs to be done. But you have been directly involved in the firm justice, equality, diversity and inclusion initiative. So how do you champion diversity and inclusion, particularly in within harneys?  

William Peake 25:45 

Yeah, so this is something that after the murder of George Floyd, the firm senior leadership got together and, you know, looked at this in a really authentic way as to what we’re what we’re doing, we were faced with two pretty stark choices, we could pay a bunch of consultants to throw adjectives at our website and have lots of glossy brochures and videos. Or we could do something that really broke it down and was a much more frankly, vulnerable thing to do, which was set up a frankly speaking series of conversations, whereby we set topics, we really mind them, from all of the perspectives of the business night, those are calls that are doing from from every part of the business, every jurisdiction, every employee can conjoin those and we also have a pretty forward facing individual with Richard Reid, who’s our global head of people who kind of hit your knees and X therapist at the Priory. And that’s a really different texture to how we tackle those issues. We also recently hired Sahar for rookie asset transformation officer to come in and look at what you put his finger on the pulse of the opera business, because one of the real challenges that a global business has is trying to set a global culture. And there’s also an arrogance around that if you are not acknowledging the jurisdictional subtleties there. And you know, I’ve had some great conversations with our Hong Kong managing partner Paul, Paul Sefton around those questions of, you know, if you’ve got a, if you’ve got one office, for example, in the Caribbean setting, a global culture, how does that work? But if you’ve got one office in Asia, setting a global culture, how does that work, you’ve got to look for the common denominators, you’ve got to look for the questions around integrity around a willingness to lesson a willingness to learn an open mind. Those are things that you can absolutely as common denominators, and I think we’re we’re lucky as a we actually got a keema come in as well and do one of the frankly, speaking, talks, talks with us to tell us about her, her journey. And we’re also really fortunate as a global business that we have. It’s not default diversity. That’s too glib, but we really, but we have such a global workforce that you do get that broad minded, broad minded thinking. That’s sort of something we we actively monitor Yeah, I’m really pride that six out of our nine managing partners are female and and it’s been intriguing we’ve done a lot I’m picking up a lot of podcast tips here from from you, Robert. But we do we do a monthly a monthly podcast, chat chat, no MP, whereby I speak to each of the each of the managing partners and it was only it was actually then that I actually get it was like, oh, isn’t that great that actually succeeded diner or are female. And so it’s something we take, we take really, we take it really, really seriously and and you can’t you can’t drift your way to diversity you’ve got to have you’ve got to have a plan. And it’s really always, always near the top of my top of my list. 

Rob Hanna 29:44 

Yeah, and it’s really pleasing to hear that. We know all the benefits of doing this as well not just because it’s the right thing to do. And everyone should have that sense of belongings within their environments that they work but it’s also very good for business and encouraging diverse Do you have thoughts and all of those those great things? And, okay, kind of a quickfire question, what do you believe are the essential skills you need to have to lead a global offshore law firm? 

William Peake 30:15 

I think you need to have compassion. Actually, I think that’s one of the key filters through which you look at things. You need to have a clarity of thought, you need to be able to communicate as well. You need to have conviction, because there will be times whereby people will say, you are leading this ship in the wrong direction. But you know, that that’s the that’s where the Elysium field set. And but the communication, actually, for me is the absolute key key point. And how do I achieve that I do a weekly video to the firm, which essentially, I talk really candidly about what’s what’s on my desk. And what I’ve been up to, I give people a fair bit of colour or my personal life as well, so that they can see that I’m actually human, we run it in one cut, which is we’ve recently introduced subtitles, which really highlights when you’re doing a monologue, how often I say M, which is no running joke in the firm that, you know, a key a key litigator who come to come speak and unbroken sentences. But that’s that I think communication is the absolute key. And there’s also you’ve got, you’ve got to keep, you’ve got to keep proving yourself because it was an extremely, that wasn’t a brilliant decision. But I was relatively young, when the when the partnership voted me in, it was a clear message around what what direction the partnership wanted to bring harneys in. I’m supported by some incredible partners who lift me up when I’m feeling any doubt who support me, the firm’s executive committee, we are a collective, we act as a collective. And those things make it a pretty, a pretty straightforward, straightforward job. But the global global aspect of it definitely does present challenges simply from a timezone per perspective. And, you know, being in Bermuda last week, I needed to actually do to catch up with Paul in Hong Kong. And when it’s 12 hours, it’s just, it’s too early for me, and it’s too late for you. So how do you how do you want to work you know, somebody somebody knows is going to be on a joint and you but admits you can also make you extremely, you know, we’ve we’ve a really significant is presence with Shanghai with Hong Kong with Singapore, they work hand in glove with our Bermuda, Viviane, Cannan offices, and you’ve got to be considerate around you know, what, what works for you, you know, it’s an early morning isn’t a late night, etc, etc. So, and that kind of goes back to that compassion element of having the EQ to know when to set goals, etc. 

Rob Hanna 33:36 

Exactly, you know, put yourself in their shoes, but you give so many other examples in there, those wants to sort of highlight particularly the authentic leadership, you know, it’s no surprise that people are happy to, to weigh in and put up put a shot an arm around you, particularly if you’re prepared to be an authentic open leader, like you say, in terms of actually things that are going on, just not on professionally, but also personally, because, again, I think I’ve said this on every episode of season eight of the show, it’s no longer b2b or b2c, that we’re transacting anymore. It’s h two h is that human to human connection, people are craving within the work environment, and your clients are craving that connection. And the more you can master that, particularly in the age of AI, which is going to automate and replace a lot of stuff, but that human impact that you can create and that human connection, and look at the likes of LinkedIn, we’ll talk about in a moment how these platforms are evolving to regenerate connection. That’s the key and as my late grandfather said, You gave a really good nugget there. He was a former lawyer and he set up his own law firm and the reason that I got into the legal world, he said, laddie, it’s very easy to be successful. It’s far harder to stay successful. And I think you make a good point. You know, it’s, you can get to the top quite easily but the only place from the top to go is down. So you have to ensure that you’re kind of operating to ensure you stay there Stay there, stay there and it isn’t always isn’t always easy, but let’s stick with videos because in your Get To Know harneys Video you share. An echo chamber is one of the greatest issues for a business whereby you have a group of people say simply agree with the principal or the senior management. So how do you address that particular issue?  

William Peake 35:05 

Yeah, so you’ve that that’s where you’ve got to be really deliberate around making sure that you’re not surrounding yourself with people who look like you and sound like you. Nobody wants a bunch of Northern Irish people on any committee. But it’s Yeah. So you’ve got, you’ve got to be really deliberate around up, you’ve got to make sure as well that you’re challenging yourself by going. Don’t get your news from the same source. Don’t deliberately seek out people who you know are going to agree with you. You’ve got to seek out people who you actually know are going to challenge you. And there’s a difference between challenging and being contrary and avoid, I mean, my mind, avoid contrarians because they’ll just waste your time. But do seek out people who will, who will challenge you. And I really do believe that echo chambers are an insidious presence in in businesses. And you see it all. You see it all the time. And there’s been so many times in my career where I’ve been drafted in to fit either sit on that well, not technically sit on the board, but observe board meetings, and try to work out where the problems have occurred. I’ve reviewed umpteen minutes from hedge funds from companies affiliated with structures in distress. And that is a theme that always percolates is that it’s just people who look and sound like each other, agreeing with each other. And, you know, our executive committee, for example, you know, ranges from you know, you’ve got the Shanghai office, the Hong Kong office, the Cypress office, the caveman office, represented, you’ve got, you know, our CFO obviously sits on our executive committee, Marilee. You’ve got our head of HR sits on it as well. You just don’t have a bunch of lawyers as well, talking law talk. So again, that’s another point that we’re really we really actively manage to make sure we’re not falling into that trap.  

Rob Hanna 37:26 

Yeah, and you do a tremendous job of that. I want to pick up on the point around challenging and contrarian because, you know, I always say everything is energy. You know, I have friends that say, Rob, you’ve done this podcast for years and years, you don’t get bored of doing it, I think, when your passion for delivering to a mission and trying to educate people and build a community hold you back to that accountability piece, but you really want to do it, every show wants to come up and do 110%. So if someone’s challenging you with a positive energy to try and reach a solution, that’s great, but it’s almost challenging with a negative energy from a contrarian point of view, that’s just draining your energy. So I always think about thinking about being around radiators rather than drains. Because if you go in that drain or clean your energy, it’s going to lead to bad decision making, it’s going to lead to bad relationships and surround yourself by people who want to challenge because that’s a growth area. Right, then you’re growing rather than shrinking. So I really love that kind of nugget you shared there. William, you’re qualified in too many areas for me to list in this pile of podcasts. So the question is, how do people I’ll list them? Ireland, England and world Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court. So any lawyer in the Cayman Islands, what would you advise for people looking to cross qualify in other jurisdictions? 

William Peake 38:35 

Yeah, so look, I did that I was really lucky that Maples where I was at, they had a tough time, they had a plan to say provide Irish law advice, which we we don’t. And they were trying to make sure that everybody was qualified across all of the relevant jurisdictions that they practised in. So I started very lucky to get swept up in that. In that idea, how has it helped me it is always really useful to understand the key elements and key differences between the legal systems. I think it’s also really important in London to be able to turn your hand to whatever is whatever it is in front of people. But I think it’s also really important to recognise, for example, am I get Am I an expert in Irish law, right? No, absolutely not. The last time I practised Irish law was 2006, I think. But I think it definitely has provided a texture on a compare and contrast between how jurisdictions do thing, do things. I think kind of referring back actually to how did we achieve success in London? What are the really interesting things that Phil and I we I stumbled across it because there was a loss of substratum issue between BVI and Cayman and you to judges who were adopting a different approach to it at the time. And clients in London were really, really fascinated by that, from a BD perspective, getting into a kind of Rome. And having a lawyer from caveman, myself and having Phil kind of BVI experts, it made the BD so easy, because we were just actually debating with each other the differences between the points and then getting the angulation, or texture to it as well, an event everybody could could contribute. And so that compare and contrast dynamic is really is really interesting. And that’s like doing business development, for example litigators, doing business development with funds lawyers is really interesting, because the funds, lawyers know how to set it up, they know all of the intricacies all of the commercial pressures, all of the hold all the documents hang together, then the litigators come in when those vehicles are in distress. But having those two strands of the law speak into those points is really is really interesting. Because again, actually, it’s kind of avoided, so avoids an echo chamber.  

Rob Hanna 41:26 

Yeah, absolutely. And again, really good examples. And I love that you talk about networking. So it’s another thing that we advocate for on the show. And I always say, NSN, wherever you are, in your career, never stop networking, because you never know where things could lead to. And I always strongly believe you’re already one relationship away from changing your life, either professionally or personally. Let’s talk about it’s a kind of extension of BD, in my opinion, the largest professional networking plant platform on the planet, LinkedIn, you’ve got over 6000 followers there. I think it’s a real misstep from lawyers that are still not paying attention to platforms like this, you’re doing a great job. How have you built your personal brand on LinkedIn? And how do you engage with your audience? 

William Peake 42:02 

Yeah, so early. So at the start of the year, we were looking at kind of, you know, marketing budgets, etc. And I was just thinking, there’s just, you know, there’s just so many low budget ways to market the firm. And I used to be really active on Twitter when I was dabbling in stand up. So I knew how to, I think I knew how to write engaging content. And I was playing around with it last year, I was trying out a few things, some are landing, some, some weren’t. And then I was like, why don’t I just actually talk about stuff that’s on my desk and stuff that’s relevant to me from a management perspective? I think the first kind of big theories I did, I did a two week series on on business development, actually. And that kind of led up it got half a million views and a fortnight, and that, you know, was when I actually kind of realised when I kind of knew how to do this. I knew how to write a hook. I knew how to write. Good, good copy. And you know, I started last year with 2000. Followers. Yeah, I’m over over six, no, I’ve had 3 million views and 2024. I just think it’s a no brainer for me to demonstrate what is important to me, and via extension was important to harneys. And it has turned into a really, a, it’s opened up so many doors for me, I do think there’s I do think LinkedIn can can absolutely ruin your profile, if you don’t do it authentically. And I see. I do see leaders, not necessarily of law firms, but of businesses, almost producing this kind of insane vulnerability to hook people in. I just see that and I think, wow, what are you what are you doing, you know, and IT leaders, you hear this, you know, there’s obviously that kind of leaders need to show vulnerability. Absolutely agree with that. But they need to show the right amount of vulnerability because eventually the people that they’re leading will say, Well, hold on a second this this person do they have the clarity of thought to to lead I liked it, there’s a human element to this that shows empathy that shows EQ that shows an ability to connect on the same level, but they also want somebody to somebody to lead and be able to do that. Because, you know, I have seen more and more kind of fabricated stuff on LinkedIn that I just didn’t think I just didn’t think lands and there’s really I’ve started following somebody recently and her content is Wonder for AMA mark at a Clifford chance. And every, you know, if you take out the tuning fork, he is heading it every single every single time and Clifford chance are so lucky to have somebody at that level speaking and that really, really authentic voice. So yeah, I do untrim I just, you know, it is to be honest with you, Robert, that’s how I first came across you because I, you know, when I was actually looking at LinkedIn first, I remember thinking, This guy’s contents really good because it was really eye catching. You were talking about things that were relevant to me. And it wasn’t a recruiter hard sale. It was just kind of like the here’s a route. Here’s a toolkit that all lawyers should, should, should have. And there’s some brilliant recruiters on LinkedIn at some really, really good stuff. But there’s also some of the approaches I’ve had, you know, I’m sure you’ve gotten I can only imagine I love the horror lessons that you’ve seen, but they’re, they are remarkable. 

Rob Hanna 46:09 

I just think customer lifetime value. My biggest success is having record years and I’ve never posted a job advert in the last 10 years, I believe on LinkedIn, which to the transactional recruiters don’t understand that, because you’ve got live vacancies that need candidates. And no one cares about that, at the key to my mind and winning to your point on LinkedIn is can you teach, inform and inspire. And I think if you can, with your content, you can teach people you’ll find your tribe, much like you’ve referenced that Emma, you found someone, Emma through her content is building her tribe, and people who are born into that content are going to keep coming back because they’re enjoying it. They’re getting something from it, they’re getting value. They’re getting education, maybe entertainment. And so I’m a really big advocate that you know, I’m like you I’ll play the long game I’ve been posting, you know, not necessarily expecting too much. Yes, we’ve done had brand deals we’ve got in the top 1% of shows. We’ve had Netflix stars like Calabasas on the show, we’ve had record yet we’ve done all these amazing things. But you know, if you start from a value proposition of look, I want to go out there and build a community. And I want people to finally figure out at the bottom of the funnel, I also do recruitment, because then you care enough about me. They’ve researched enough about me that they’re bought in and they trust and they know me that they’re going to want to do business with me. So I don’t put out there every day that legal recruiting, because my top of the funnel isn’t that I want people to really know, trust and like who I am, and then they’re the type of people I probably want to do business with. 

William Peake 47:27 

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think it’s interesting, the distinction between, you know, views engagement, and actually making meaningful connections. And I had a really interesting one where, you know, I was supposed to get on a Friday. And I think my most viewed one is like 150,000 views. And it’s, it’s a cat with a nail file. Looking smug, and the line was something around when, when your boss chases you for work, but you emailed it to them yesterday, it’s The Sweetest email you’ll ever forward. You know, absolutely, absolutely blew up. But did I make any meaningful connections from that? No. Right. Absolutely. So vanity project tech. So well done. William. Did a yes. to that. Absolutely. Yes. You know, I posted last week around an architect, a lawyer and an accountant walk into a bar on I talked about the five things that are frustrating for all businesses, right. And I, I don’t know, 30,000 views or something. But I my DMs absolutely lit up with meaningful connections, people talking about the challenges of business, having it recognised and oddly, get the amount of was weird, was fully acquaintance. Didn’t they actually do actually were quite good. She hasn’t done our bills, for example, whereas architects and lawyers were like, Yeah, this is absolutely the BFR bane of our existence. And I’m going to post about that, again, because there’s so much content and it made a great connection from slaughter and may on it, and that’s meaningful. 

Rob Hanna 49:23 

Exactly. And that’s the thing, you know, you can you know, vulnerability increases visibility, you can do, you know, funny entertainment, but really were the posts that maybe don’t look externally the value is in the DMS if you teach people if you will connect with them, you will do business, particularly meat because people you know, a lot of people do know, I do the recruitment, a lot of people don’t want to be seen, but the DMS will then come and I think you have a really good example of that and you know, people are craving this, this this connection. So, this has been an absolute masterclass William, I’ve really enjoyed learning more about your journey, what you’ve been up to, and all the great things you’re going to continue Didn’t you to do? So two final questions before we close? What would you like your legacy to be as you leave as the global managing partner of harneys in the years to come?  

William Peake 50:09 

I think I would like my legacy to be the people remembered the firm as a place that people wanted to stay working out, and that they wanted to work for. And I’m just clients had a great experience with us and staff really wanted to stick around. 

Rob Hanna 50:30 

Beautiful Okay, finally, what would be your as a legal leader, what would be your one piece of advice for individuals starting their careers who want to go on to be a successful lawyer, and perhaps those in the journey right now who are looking to kind of get that step up, be it to partner be a managing partner bit, setting up their own firm? 

William Peake 50:49 

I think it’s do all the small things impeccably. Because once you are trusted with small things, you will get bigger things and all obsess over how you can make your supervisors life easier. Think about it. Never if they asked for something to be they asked for an email to be printed off. Have you printed off the previous tea? And have you printed off the attachment? Have you thought about an article that might be referred to in that email and they might need to refer to it think think think again about how you can make your monitor supervisors life easier and it will be returned to you and see it’s 

Rob Hanna 51:31 

Yeah, I love that be proactive or being reactive and I love that you talk about that touches, little touches for big impact. And you know, if you really finesse over these little things and go above and beyond and go above and beyond by some stretch, you’re gonna go very far. This has been an absolute masterclass William, I thoroughly enjoyed it. If our listeners want to know more about your career, or indeed harneys Where’s the best place for them to go feel free to shout out any social media handles? Any website links will also Yeah, so for you too?  

William Peake 51:58 

Sure. Yeah, thanks. I’m only or have any other social media on LinkedIn. So absolutely connect with me on LinkedIn, send me a DM, you can send me an email as well. You google my name, my horrifically on representative profile picture will lead you to my email address. So you can drop me a line there too. 

Rob Hanna 52:17 

Awesome. Well, it just leads me to say thank you so so much, William. It’s been an absolute pleasure hosting on the legally speaking podcast from all of us on the show, wishing you lots of continued success with your career, and indeed harneys But from now from all of us, over and out.