“Your circumstances don’t have to define where you ultimately end up.” – Chloe Lake.

On today’s episode, I’m delighted to be speaking with Chloe Lake. Chloe is a solicitor specialising in residential development at Gateley Legal, advising on land acquisitions and development projects. She studied Law at De Montfort University after transferring from the University of Leicester, with a placement year helping launch her legal career. She qualified as a solicitor after gaining experience in residential conveyancing and commercial property.

Alongside her legal career, Chloe is passionate about social mobility, diversity and widening access to the legal profession. She has been involved in mentoring and careers initiatives and was named Leicestershire Law Society’s Trainee/Paralegal of the Year in 2023. Today, she shares her inspiring journey from a non-traditional background to qualifying as a solicitor, highlighting how setbacks, changing universities and taking risks ultimately shaped her career. Chloe discusses the value of practical experience, building relationships, trusting your instincts and developing confidence beyond academic study.

So why should you be listening in? 

You can hear Rob and Chloe discussing:

– Trusting Your Gut and Taking Risks

– Navigating Success Beyond a Straight Line

– Building Strong Legal Skills Through Experience

– Developing Relationships Throughout Your Legal Career

– Becoming a Support for Others.

Connect with Chloe Lake here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/chloe-lake

Transcript

Let’s give ourselves some grace and let’s acknowledge that we’re still moving and we’re still growing as lawyers. 

People buy from people. Knowing how to be engaging with your audience, knowing how to build and develop relationships is a skill that I’ve gained from outside of pageantry. Also, some of the most important skills I’ve gained were things like waitressing. When you’re dealing with angry people and you have to think on your fee and you have to diffuse an unpleasant situation, or know who to talk to, or know who’s best placed to answer this question. Those are all skills that I use as a junior lawyer. 

I took a huge risk. It was my first time moving out, new job, new practice area, new part of the country. And I just thought, do you know what? I have to do this for myself, and I haven’t looked back. 

On today’s Legally Speaking podcast, sponsored by Clio, I’m delighted to be joined by Chloe Lake. Chloe is a residential development solicitor at Gately Legal.

She advises on land acquisitions for residential development. Since qualifying as a solicitor, Chloe has built experience across residential conveyancing and commercial property, working with housing associations, developers, as well as commercial clients. In May 23, she was named Leicestershire’s Law Society Trainee Paralegal of the Year. Chloe began her studies at the University of Leicester before making the decision to transfer to De Montfort University. Her placement year bolstered her career in law, and

leading to her training contract and qualification as a solicitor. Alongside her budding legal career, Chloe is a passionate advocate for social mobility, diversity, and widening the access of the legal profession. Through her mentoring and volunteering work, she is committed to ensuring young people from all backgrounds aspire to a career in the law. Chloe has competed in national pageants and also used her platform to promote mental health, awareness and social mobility.

Today we’ll explore Chloe’s journey from changing universities to qualifying as a solicitor. We’ll discuss the importance of taking opportunities, building confidence and inclusion, and why success is rarely a straight line. So a very big warm welcome to the show, Chloe. Thank you so, so, so much, Rob, for having me. I’m so excited. It’s an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. And as we’re speaking off air, we followed

One another’s journeys for some time on socials. And I’m a big fan of what you’ve been doing, and I’m looking forward to getting into that. But before we do, we have a couple of icebreaker questions. First things first, what’s your favorite beverage and what’s your preferred choice of footwear on a typical work day? Favourite beverage? Ooh, a really pale, pale, pale, pale rose, or iced skinny, sugar free vanilla latte, depending on how many hours I’ve slept.

with an extra shot of coffee. Nice, nice. And footwear on a work day for you? Footwear on a work day is actually probably a pair of ballet flats, which given my background and my extracurriculars, I feel like people might be shocked by, but if I can give my feet a rest, then I absolutely will. Fair enough. And then what’s one piece of legal technology or everyday technology you now rely on that you would have thought was unthinkable earlier on in your career? Copilot.

I absolutely love Copilot. In fact, I I like AI. and I like that particularly in my firm, we are quite forward thinking with AI. But I think when I was starting out as a a as a law student or doing A level law, I don’t even think AI was in our contemplation really.

Yeah, no, it’s definitely burst on the scene in recent years, actually. It really has. In a big way. And obviously we’ve had lots of conversations on the show around that. But today is about you and your journey. So could you give us a bit of a overview of your journey to deciding your first university was not right for you through to qualifying as a solicitor with your firm? So I have been quite lucky and I always acknowledge that becoming a solicitor is all I’ve wanted to do since I was maybe 13, 14 years old, and I’m sat here today qualified. But

I would say that my path is you know non-traditional. I come from a working class family. I was the first generation of my family to go to university, let alone to pursue a white-collar profession. I think growing up as someone that was identified as academically gifted, you know, as a child, you don’t really realise how much pressure that puts on you. But when you’re growing up, particularly as a teenager and you’re navigating life and all of life’s challenges, that

I think was when I started to recognize the importance of mental health as opposed to laser focus on my goals. And one of the biggest turning points was my A-level results. I didn’t get the results that I had hoped for, that I’d worked for, that I wanted. And that limited the choices of universities that I was kind of able to apply to through clearing, etc. So I went to the University of Leicester, misguidedly thinking that I had to go to a red brick.

university and get a degree from there. so I kind of had this twisted plan that I was going to go study criminology, which, you know, I’ve I’ve never been a criminal law girly. And then I would do the GDL and I would do the LPC and I would qualify that way and it was absolutely fine. Six months after I started, I was like, this is not for me. And then I ended up at De Montfort. I did law with a placement year. That placement year led to me getting my training contract.

you know, I qualified at that very same firm. So actually, my mental health and those circumstances, underperforming at A-level, I think set me on a path of realization that your circumstances don’t actually have to define where you ultimately end up. You know, I now work at

a top fifty firm. The team that I work in is is market leading. So if I’d have told fourteen year old self that actually fourteen years later she would she would be okay and she’d be doing exactly what she set out to do, then just might be a couple of bumps in the road. I think she’d be pretty happy. Really well said. And I think your story absolutely demonstrates that careers don’t always follow this straight line. We always talk about rejection is obviously redirection. You you absolutely found the right environment and you you’ve shared that finding your right environment

you you felt supported and you were able to succeed. So for for listeners tuning into this, why is it important for students or young professionals to recognize when they’re not in an environment where they are thriving rather than question their own ability? I think the profession itself is one that demands a lot of you, irrespective of of where your skills lie or what what area you practice in. And I think

It’s really important to acknowledge that in order for you to get the best out of yourself, you have to be within the best environment of yourself. you know, I’m not very green thumbed, but you can almost liken it to gardening. You’re not going to put a plant that’s meant to thrive in one environment into the complete opposite environment that it would do well in. And I think as human beings, we are exactly the same. And I think the earlier that you recognize in your career what

kind of environment you thrive in, what kind of people you work well with, what kind of person you are as a lawyer, as a practitioner, as a colleague, it allows you to make those decisions in terms of where you’d like your career to go, what kind of firm you’d like to go in, whether actually you’d prefer to go in house or be a consultant. As long as you’re live to your personal circumstances and you recognize what brings the best out in you, I actually think

it allows you to really take your career by the horns and steer it the way that you want to rather than the way that you think you have to. and I can only speak for myself, but I know I’m very happy where I am. And it I think it’s because there are, you know, certain non-negotiables that I have that mean that I’m always going to end up in an environment that I think I’ll thrive in.

I love that. And I I say very openly to people, you know, if it’s meant to be, it’s up to me. I love that you’re talking about your own self accountability there and actually, you know, taking that responsibility. I think there’s a good lesson in that. You’ve spoken openly about how your placement year during university changed your career trajectory. So why was your placement such a valuable experience? And what do you think students often underestimate about gaining practical legal experience before graduating? My placement year was the beginning of the foundation of the legal skills that I use.

as a qualified solicitor, but it also gave me first hand insight into how law firms operate as commercial entities, you know, the kinds of things that they do not teach you on a straight LLB, with the kind of soft skills, you know, who to have the right conversations with, the importance of those kitchen coffees, how to network, the importance of building relationships.

Firm wide. You don’t learn that at a 9am landlord lecture. And it was my it was my placement year that taught me those skills. But also as someone that comes from a non-traditional background, the only work experience I’d gained prior to that point was through the Sutton Trust and the Social Mobility Foundation. And it was very ad hoc. My placement year gave me 15 months of nine to five, five days a week, where I was constantly developing, constantly learning.

not only about the practice area that I was working in, but also I worked a full service firm. So I was also able to start shaping where I thought my interests lie. And that helped me pick my final year modules, my LPC electives and things like that. So it really was invaluable. I was quite lucky. I did a paralegal placement year, but I was also in the running for a legal and compliance placement year at GE.

And I think again, I would have been able to derive the benefits from a from a non-legal placement year. I I genuinely think they are worth their weight in gold when it comes to employability. Yeah, well said. And absolutely agree with you from my own experience going back quite a bit of time now, but absolutely agree. Okay, you talk us through talk us through your training contract journey because, you know, how did you apply for yours and how did you go how did you feel when you actually received it? So my trading contract journey was a little bit

Again, like I think my entire journey is a is a little bit off piste. But I was a placement student and then I was fortunate enough to be offered a permanent paralegal role. So for all intents and purposes, I was an an internal candidate. And I think from the get-go, the powers that be at my old firm definitely knew that I was very ambitious. I was constantly thinking about the next move, etc. So in my final year of my LLB, I reached out to my

Training principal, or who was the training principal at the time. And I just said, you know, can I have a conversation with you? How do I apply? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He gave me some really great pieces of advice, took them away, etc. then another firm came knocking and they said, Look, we really want you to interview for this role. It was in a completely different practice area. I felt like I was underqualified. I was up against people that had finished the LPC. I hadn’t even finished my LLB.

And I ended up being offered that job and I accepted, which obviously meant I resigned from my paralegal role. And then I got a call from our then practice manager who said, Chloe, what’s going on? This, you know, what can we do to keep hold of you? the new firm said to me, you know, we don’t think there’ll be a problem with you getting a training contract here, but we can’t guarantee you one. my practice manager said

If you want a training contract, it’s on the table. And I said, okay, fine. and it’s quite funny. So there have been a couple of points in my career where a senior lawyer has expressed a negative opinion about a move that I was making as a junior. When I called the hiring partner at the other firm and I said, Look, I’m really sorry, I’m incredibly grateful that you wanted to take this chance on me, but unfortunately.

you know, my current firm have offered me a training contract. It’s guaranteed. So I I, you know, I I really think I need to stay. Hope you understand why I’m making this decision. said hiring partner said that I was making a huge mistake because my firm wasn’t quote unquote a commercial firm. And I do kind of think I wonder if he sees my LinkedIn now and he knows where I work now and he knows how this path has kind of unfolded. So, you know, again,

Tristan your gut. Absolutely. You know, the right thing will happen at the right time. And I think my my training contract story, although non-traditional, you know, didn’t do a back scheme, didn’t technically interview, my firm had just under two years of seeing what I was like as you know, an integral part of of the company prior to making that offer. I love that. And I love that you, you know, that self belief.

You know, and you you your your own confidence. I think there’s some good lessons in there. I remember when I first set up Casey Partners on Legal Recruiting Business in twenty sixteen, I wrote BTA, Believe to Achieve. You know, it’s competitive time, there’s all these things going. And you just have to have that in you, don’t you? Because you will have other opinions and, you know, naysayers and everything else out there. And the fact that you’ve been able to, you know, probably, you know, turn the tables around from what some of those views of people maybe have had is is is inspiring. Let’s talk more about building a legal career then, because you’ve experienced several areas of law before actually specializing in residential development. So

What attracted you to that area of practice? And would you mind sharing what a typical day looks like? I think one of the things that property lawyers have in common more often than not is that falling into property is inherently accidental. I did not wake up one day and say, my goodness, I really loved learning about overriding interests at university. I’m gonna become a property lawyer. I kind of thought I would go into family, private client, etc. I was exposed to those areas and I thought, actually it’s not for me. My experience

Has been in residential conveyancing and later commercial property. Within my commercial property kind of seat and then first initial months of qualification, I knew that general real estate, whilst I enjoyed it, it wasn’t really feeding that part of my brain that I thought I really need a challenge here. I really need something to sink my teeth into. I really need something that, you know, essentially is going to ensure that.

my technical ability increases year on year on year. and I think within the realms of commercial property, residential development is so niche, is so specialist that that is where you build those skills and you build that ability. So I started looking at development roles and I ended up relocating to my current firm this time last year. I took a huge risk. It was my first time moving out.

New job, new practice area, new part of the country. And I just thought, do you know what? I I have to do this for myself. And I haven’t looked back. Residential development gives me everything. You still have that commerciality. You know, we act for FTSE 100, FTSE 250 companies. So the clients that I deal with day-to-day are the best in the game. The lawyers that I get to deal with and assist and work alongside are incredibly talented at every level.

So I couldn’t ask for more from where I am. In terms of a typical day, I’m quite lucky in that there really isn’t one. For example, today I went to the office yesterday, got a call from one of my legal directors in the morning. Chloe, I’m gonna need you to step in. There’s a 10am meeting in London. I’m gonna need you to go. So, you know, the first few hours of my day were spent traveling here, partaking in an all-parties meeting, and then I had another all parties meeting following on from that. And

I think that’s one thing that I really love about development. It is inherently collaborative. You know, depending on whether you’re selling service parcels, selling affordable parcels, essentially you have these two parties that do need to collaborate to make the development viable. So I really enjoy that. This afternoon is going to be spent drafting, recapping the notes that I was taking from the meeting this morning and getting those circulated.

we are in a bit of a crunch time on one of my deals at the moment, so I’m assisting with the due diligence. So I need to make sure that I’ve gone through everything with a fine tooth comb. but I’m looking at this moment, I’m eyeing the sun on Patinosa Square, just outside of St. Paul’s Cathedral. So I think I might need to go for a little lunchtime walk. But, you know, my days vary and I really love that. You know, sometimes I might be on site visits, which

Last week I had one and I ended up wearing all white and the partner was like, Chloe, we are about to walk around the perimeter of a a muddy field, but you know, th that’s just me. Exactly. Do you as they say. So a reflection question now. Looking back over the first few years of practice, what have been some of the biggest lessons you’ve learnt?

That universities simply can’t teach you. Understanding the commerciality of law firms if you’re going into private practice is something that universities try to teach you, but I think you truly you don’t have an appreciation for them until you’re there. And I I mean kind of how as a fee earner, you also have to have a mind for marketing and business development. You also have to have a mind for how you can support your support staff, where your

firm sits not only within the sector but in the community in which you operate is also really, really important. And I think, as with every company, law firms are inherently political. So how do you understand the politics of where you’re working? Again, as a junior, I think one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned is actually knowing when to speak and knowing when to listen and observe and when to learn and when to be curious. That’s probably an attitude

That I have approached every single kind of stage from paralegaling to training to qualifying is just learning about where I work and understanding the role that not only I play, but my team plays and the wider firm plays. I’ve touched on it previously, trusting your gut. A lecturer cannot sit in front of you and teach you when to understand when you need to, you know, be live to a personal circumstances, when to understand when a professional environment is or isn’t serving you.

It’s really important again that you spend that time working on, you know, your self-awareness. What type of person are you? What type of lawyer do you want to be? And where am I going to be best suited for that? Knowing how to have the resilience in that, you know, like me. You might not end up on that linear path. There might be a a couple of zigzags in the road, but actually it’s all serving that greater purpose. So you just have to trust in that and be confident.

And there’s one thing that I’m still very much struggling with. some days I am really crippled by imposter syndrome. Again, dealing with that is not something you can be taught at university. You know, almost having to coach myself and think you’ve gone through years of legal study, training, qualification. You ultimately wouldn’t be here if your employer didn’t think that you were capable. So let’s give ourselves some grace and let’s acknowledge that we’re still moving and we’re still growing as lawyers.

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Something you’ve touched on. I want to give you a chance to talk more because I know you spoke a little bit about your background, but social mobility now and representation, because you’re you’re a passionate advocate for social mobility and indeed widening access to the legal profession, which indeed we are here at the League Speaking podcast, hence we want these sorts of conversations. Why is this such an important cause to you? Because I didn’t see myself in anyone when I was navigating my studies, navigating my trying to get work experience, you know.

I grew up in an area for the country in the northeast of England that has, you know, it’s hugely industrial and it doesn’t really have that commercial air to it in terms of you’re having the the big private practice law firms. My parents weren’t the types of people that had those connections. You know, my dad worked in in IT and my mum worked at HMRC for a time before actually being dismissed on ill health grounds. So

I grew up seeing a lot of hardship and seeing what lack of access to opportunity does to generations of people. where I grew up is the kind of place where very few people actually move away from. and I knew that I wanted to pursue.

a career, I really wanted to push my brain to its maximum capacity, but there was no one to help me on that way. I’m incredibly appreciative of all of the sacrifices that my parents made, that my grandparents made to help me and support me on this journey. But ultimately that came from a place of sacrificing because I was their child, not necessarily because they understood the context, that they understood the profession.

So I had to find the resources. I had to apply for things like Pathways to Law organized by the Sutton Trust, which I got onto because of my academic ability, which then gave me the, you know, the insight into the profession. I was able to start networking. And I think for me, I want to, in whatever capacity I can, be a little bit of a mentor to that next generation.

be the me that I needed when I was growing up so that actually I can signpost people, I can tell them where their these extracurricular opportunities lie to save the hours and hours of Googling and researching that I had to go through and kind of feeling like I was knocking at every door kind of on my own. I you know, that mirrors what we’ve had in terms of previous guests. We’ve had Trevor Sterling who was you know, fantastic and he talks about, you know, if you can’t see the ladder, be the ladder. Be the ladder.

And and and put that up and let people climb it. And you are absolutely helping the next generation. You’ve helped with junior lawyers organizations, education initiatives, and served in as an ambassador supporting aspiring lawyers. So with all of that knowledge and what you’re seeing and what you do, what advice would you give to students or indeed aspiring solicitors about entering the legal industry? Don’t let your perception of your background define how capable you think you are or define where you think you ultimately belong.

you know, if someone like me that comes from a working class background, non-Russell group qualifications can end up where I currently am, then by goodness gracious me, anyone else can. I think it’s really, really, really important as well to build relationships, seek people out that, you know, not necessarily run in in similar circles, but also have those common

kind of foundations because you can support one another and seek out mentors. You know, use LinkedIn, use social media to seek out people that have a similar background to you. Ask them questions. How did they navigate their path? What advice would they give to me? I really, really think that success in this profession, a large amount of that is is based on having those connections. so for me, for for someone like me, if I could tell my 14 year old self

anything, it it really would be to kind of reach out for help and and also don’t be dissuaded by the fact that you don’t yet see yourself in this profession. I think we are becoming far more diverse on a social mobility front and I think that makes it better.

Yeah, and and we absolutely agree. And you know, we’ve had some incredible guests that are doing great work on that, particularly Patrick McCann and would encourage folks to go and listen to to his episode as well. And you’re right, you know, networks are so important and I always talk a lot about, you know, contacts are good, but it’s the relationships that pay, really sprinkle value and nurture those relationships and go deep with them and build those connections and surround yourself with what we call sort of a three sixty board of mentors, people ahead of you, same lever as you, people beneath you, and be just curious, like you’re saying, and open to learning.

And I think you can be super successful on as you are. I mean, let’s talk now about diversity, actually, inclusion, because in terms of diversity inclusion, the legal profession is still evolving. Yes. so from your perspective, what progress have you seen? And where do you think the profession still has work to do? So I think I’ve been quite lucky. There’s only been one occasion where my direct supervising partner has been a male. So I think I’ve

been quite fortunate in that I’ve seen role models, female role models in the profession, and I’ve seen women that have families that have, you know, childcare responsibilities in positions of power and authority, which is ultimately where I would like to be one day. But I do think in terms of how far we have to go, from a gender parity perspective, I think the infrastructure of firms is evolving.

in that you know they are becoming more female friendly places. But I think that we do have a while to go in that respect. I also think I’m someone from a mixed race background. again, I think visibility is really, really important having role models that come from working class backgrounds, mixed race backgrounds, that are from the BAME community in those

partnership positions in the rooms that you want to see yourself in. I think that’s really, really important. Could not agree more. And again, thank you for just sharing your story with us and, you know, the great work you’re doing and an extension of the voice. You’ve built a huge personal brand. You know, you’ve got over eleven thousand or so followers on TikTok, where you share all things lawyers, beauty and indeed lifestyle. So tell us more a bit more about your TikTok content.

I think TikTok for me is a little bit of a creative outlet. And some days I still kind of think, How on earth have I built this audience? But I think that just lends itself to authenticity and also wanting to talk about things that are important to me, like social mobility. You know, TikTok is a massive platform and it is not just a case of

incredibly aesthetically pleasing influencers, you know, showcasing their luxury lifestyles. I think actually people want to consume real life. They want to consume knowledge that they can just keep swiping on. And I think for me, I started sharing my story from I think actually my placement year or or there or thereabouts. So it’s been a few years now. And I think what I’ve been able to do is

take people on that journey with me. But I also think I am most definitely not a robot. You know, I am someone that kind of prides ourselves on being a bit larger than life and definitely full of life. And so I want to showcase that yes, I have a fantastic career and I’m really excited to see what the future has in store for me. But also I kind of get to do really cool things outside of work too and and so can you, you know

again that just lends itself, like I said, earlier, to just being live to your personal circumstances and knowing what you want out of work, but also what you want out of life. you know, yes, there’s videos of me on my TikTok on a grab motorcycle in Bangkok living my absolute best life. There’s beauty reviews, there’s fashion reviews, there’s travel content because I think all of that is what makes me me. And I think again, it just builds that picture of authenticity

that then if you’re interested in a career in law, you start to look at the advice that I’m giving as advice that you can kind of trust because it’s coming from my lived experiences and it’s evidence of that. We’re humans, right? So, you know, I’m not a a podcaster, you know, you’re a human first, you have interests, hobbies, of course a career as well. And I guess stepping outside of law, as you’re mentioning, sort of

Beauty there and fashion. I’m not gonna give too word because I want you to tell us more about this, but you competed in some national competitions where you’ve been utilising your platform to promote mental health awareness and social mobility. So would you mind sharing a bit about where I’m going with this and your experiences as fast with it? Yes. so I have competed in beauty pageants since I was 16 years old.

And I actually think and I am the biggest advocate for this, I would not be where I am without the skills that I’ve gained from those competitions. I can go into a room with a panel of six judges and in five minutes convince them that I’m the best girl for the job. If you put me in a room with two hiring partners and I’ve got 30 minutes to give nuance, then ultimately I know that I’m gonna be, you know, I I’m gonna have the confidence to go into that that interview and

probably walk away with a job offer because I’ve spent so many years training and you know interview coaching and things like that. But pageantry has given me the opportunity to use my voice to speak about what matters to me. I have struggled with my mental health and I’ve been quite open with those struggles. But for me it’s not about, you know, giving a sob story per se. It’s about showcasing resilience, signposting and also working with

incredible charities like mind to help other people who might find themselves in the positions that I found myself in. I also think social mobility is a phrase that is used in professional environments and perhaps political environments. But the amount of people that I’ve spoken to day to day, whether it be at pageant events or the competitions themselves, and I’ve said, hey, you know, I’m I’m incredibly passionate about

The showcasing the importance of social mobility, and people have gone, what is that? so actually, it’s given me an opportunity to educate a larger cross section of society and a larger cross section of my peers than I would have ordinarily been able to. And it is glam and it is fun, but the best thing for me is that I am now friends with some of the most objectively impressive women you could ever wish to meet, and they encourage me to be.

Better just by existing, which I think is very, very cool. And it’s something that drives me and for the most part has been an incredibly positive influence on my life. and I am quite grateful that I am able to bring that into my work to kind of marry the two worlds that seem like they’re poles apart, but they’re really, really not.

I guess it’s helped shaped you all round and a good lesson there in terms of you found your tribe, you’re bringing out the the best people are coming around you and bring out the best of you and encouraging you and and spurring you on. And I guess this leads to what you’re touching on before around building confidence. So, you know, competing on a stage and peering in front of clients both require that that confidence as you gave those examples. So how have the skills you’ve developed outside of the legal profession made you a better lawyer? I think confidence, you know, first and foremost, but also

my speaking skills. I now have my own interview coaching business, which yes, is in the context of beauty pageants, but that’s because I went through years and years and years of training and coaching. So now I know that I can go into a client meeting and if I need to deliver, I know I have the skills to deliver. And as a lawyer, being an effective communicator, whether it’s through the written word or the spoken word, is one of the most important skills that we can home.

but also as well, I think as we touched on earlier, people buy from people. So again, knowing how to be engaging with your audience, knowing how to build and develop relationships is a skill that I’ve gained from outside of pageantry. But also, I think some of the most important skills I’ve gained were things like waitressing at Prezo or working at Primark back in the day. When you’re dealing with angry people and you have to think on your feet.

And you have to, you know, diffuse an unpleasant situation or know who to talk to or know who to ask the you know, who who’s best placed to answer this question. Those are all skills that I use as a junior lawyer. And actually I started developing those through my part time work. So I think you are ultimately the sum of all your parts, and some of my parts have been developed from quite unconventional places. These are all transferable skills and I always talk a lot about

Every experience or role or job, you’re ultimately just skill stacking, right? You’re you’re taking these and building and building and it you’re compounding over time.

And yeah, absolutely about the relationships. You know, rapport wins an award. The more you can meet people where they’re at, be in their world, see life from their side and find commonality, you’re obviously going to enhance that rapport and those relationships are going to foster and hence why you’re doing so well. And congratulations on your your your other businesses as as well. Okay, you have plenty of market recognition. You’ve been recognized by Leicestershire’s Law Society, trainee paralegal of the year in twenty twenty three. So that must have been incredibly rewarding. How did that achievement motivate you to continue your work in the law?

It was one of those moments that I think will stick with me forever. I got to speak about my background on stage in front of the who’s who in the legal community where I lived at the time. And I was so incredibly proud of that because it was a moment where I was able to almost take a step back and go, Okay, you really can do this. The judging panel think you can do this.

Your firm thinks you can do this because they wouldn’t have nominated you for the award if they didn’t. And I think it was a moment that really spurred me on. And I thought, okay, well, this is what I’ve been able to do as as a as a paralegal and as a brand new trainee. How can I continue to push myself? How can I continue to combine my work, giving back to the community, mentoring, pageantry, TikTok, etc.? How can I combine that with my career?

And so I think it was a bit of a watershed moment where I thought, right, I am going to continue on in this profession. And I’m going to continue on in this profession whilst having my finger in all of these different pies at the same time. Because actually what I’m doing is being recognised on this scale. And it was definitely a marker for for believing in myself. I still have that trophy. it’s in my living room now. And I don’t

Think it ever won’t be. You know, I could be 20 years PQE and I’ve still got that trophy in my living room because it was that point where I thought, okay, gosh, we are really doing this and we’re kind of doing it well. Doing it very well. And I guess that leads to success. You know, when you first started studying law, what did success look like? And has your definition of success changed now you’ve qualified as solicitor? Absolutely. I think.

When I first started studying law, you know, I think that was when suits was first on air. And I thought, you know, my definition of success is a huge salary and a glass building and working in the city and, you know, doing all of these deals. without actually thinking of the type of lawyer that I wanted to be, it was very much more about the material. I think

But I was a kid, you know, I I wanted to do this from from being a a teenager. So at that point, you don’t have the nuance, you don’t have the understanding. Now I am most definitely not a child. And I think my definition of success has been shaped by the hurdles that I’ve had to overcome. ultimately being happy, and I know that sounds incredibly cliche and it’s definitely l lending itself to that pageant stereotype of and world peace.

But to me, success looks like happiness, being fulfilled in my role, you know, continuing to be challenged and to challenge myself. Yes, of course, I would love a lovely life. I love to travel, I love to go on holiday, I love to go to concerts and things like that. And all of those things aren’t necessarily cheap. But I think I’m less motivated by the material and more motivated by

Having the experiences that I know will shape me, enjoying my life outside of work, growing in technical ability. You know, I don’t just want the partner label. I want to be recognized as an expert in my field one day because I’ve put the work in now and you know, I’ve grown and I’ve learned and I, you know, I’ve learned from my mistakes, pushed myself constantly.

I just want to continue to kind of thrive. And I don’t necessarily think I need a a glass an an office in a glass building in the city to do that. You know, I am very, very happy with what my life looks like now. And I think, you know, if it continues on this trajectory, I I don’t see myself being kind of unhappy in future. And that to me is is most definitely what success will look like. Yeah, and we’re gonna talk about the future and the success, but I just want to sort of

Echo what you’re saying. You know, it it’s exceptionally personal, isn’t it? You know, you’re you’re waking up happy and that’s that’s the goal, right? If you can wake up happy, yes, of course, you know, I always say there is no perfect job. As long as you’re having more good days than bad days, then I think, you know, that’s that’s a good barometer to to be on. And, you know, it’s clearly clearly working for you. And, you know, looking forward then, what future plans do you have for your career in law? I would like to climb the corporate ladder.

I am inherently ambitious and it is my ambition that ultimately gets me out of bed in the morning and can you know, forces me to continue to push myself. But I think actually I want to continue to mentor young people. You know, for me that is a huge part of my job satisfaction is get is is yes, getting to do this exciting work and work in a great place and you know with great clients, but actually I want to be able

to inspire other people to do that too. Right now I am a junior solicitor. So certainly for the next twelve months, whilst I come up to three PQE at my current firm, it’s most definitely just going to be spent learning, being curious, putting my hand up, asking for work, having a wide variety of work. And I’m very, very fortunate that, you know, I I do get to deal with lots of different things day in, day out. Once I hit

3PQE, I can then start looking at my progression in terms of promotion and what kind of timeline I’m going to be working towards. But right now, I’m just learning. And I think that’s exactly what I should be doing. Developing those relationships with our clients, you know, working at a larger firm now, the way that we network is slightly different. You know, I don’t really go to those smaller scale networking events that perhaps I used to, things like coffee mornings, etc. Now it is about

you know, identifying who is at your level within XYZ business and how can we foster a relationship so that we can grow together. Working cross-office, cross-country is also very, very important to me. So I’m I feel like I’m in a growth stage at the moment. And that’s an exciting stage. And you ha you have that growth mindset and you’re talking a lot about sort of firm collaboration there. We talk a lot about sort of we is greater than me and and also your thirst for continuous

learning, right? And again, if you drop the L from learn, it spells earn. You must learn before you earn. So I think it’s really, really well said everything that you’re sharing for our listeners. Okay, a couple of final questions before I let you go. what advice would you give to someone who is at the beginning of their legal journey, still studying university, looking to pursue a career as a solicitor? Keep an open mind. What you enjoy at university may not be what you enjoy in practice, said the accidental property lawyer.

And trust in your ability. Work hard and trust in your ability. Love it. Okay. And if you had to complete this sentence, how would you finish it? The people who create the biggest impact are not always those who have all the answers. They are the ones who Ask the important questions. I live by the saying: if I am quote unquote the most intelligent person in the room, I’m in the wrong room.

Yeah, well said. And again, that curiosity and growth mindset of yours comes comes through. Well, Chloe, this has been brilliant. If our listeners and watchers, as I’m sure they will, want to learn more about yourself or indeed the the work that you’re doing, or indeed some of your outside of life initiatives, we’re supporting aspiring lawyers and indeed your talks on social mobility. Where can they find out more? Feel free to share any of your websites, any of your social media handles. We’ll also share them as an episode for you too.

find me on LinkedIn. I absolutely love LinkedIn. And also for legal content, definitely TikTok, where I am at Chloe Elite. Fabulous. Well, it just leads me to say thank you so much for joining us today on the League of Speaking Podcast sponsored by Clio. It’s been absolute blast wishing you lots of continued success with your legal career and indeed the work that you’re doing to champion social mobility, diversity, and opportunities across the profession. But from now, from all of us on the show, over and out.

Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. If you like the content here, why not check out our world leading content and collaboration hub, the Legally Speaking Club, over on Discord. Go to our website, www.legallyspeakingpodcast.com. There’s a link to join our community there. Over and out.