Diversity Dodgers – Lenie Ibanez – S1E3

Rob Hanna: Welcome to the Legally Speaking Podcast, Powered by Kissoon Carr. I’m your host, Rob Hanna. This week I’m joined by Lenie Ibanez. Who is a Diversity Leader, International Change-Maker andFemale Youth Empowerment Mentor. Lenie has spoken in the House of Commons and was awarded the very first scholarship in the woman’s empowerment with Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership Foundation 2018, for her leadership. Lenie is passionate about driving change in the legal space and moving the needle forward not only in London, but globally. She wishes to help towards the progression in the inclusion of Global Citizens International. So, Lenie, welcome.

Lenie Ibanez: Thank you, Rob! What a wonderful introduction. Thanks so much.

Rob Hanna: Well, it’s all true. It’s all true. I must start with the all important question for the Legally Speaking Podcast listeners, on the scale of 1 to 10, 10 being very real. How real do you rate the TV series Suits?

Lenie Ibanez: Because Suits is one of my favourite TV shows. I must say it’s as much of a 10 as Harvey Spectre.  

Rob Hanna: Oooookay! Ok, so we’re back to a 10. That’s interesting. So last week we had a one from from James Breese saying that he’s yet to meet a secretary as good as Donna. And the week before that, we had a 10. So we’re still delivering near the 10. So it would probably be good for you to sort of tell us a bit more about your impressive background and sort of what you been up to you, so tell us a bit more about you.

Lenie Ibanez: I was born and raised in the Philippines until I was nine. We moved to Canada and have spent most of my life there until my recent move here to London, nearly two years now.  

Rob Hanna: Okay.

Lenie Ibanez: And ‘why London?’ people always ask. So my brother was living in Germany at the time and he said, ‘Why don’t you come to move to Europe with me?’ As much as I love Germany, I said, ‘I don’t think it’s quite the right place for me’. So I took a trip around Europe and London really called to me. And funny enough, it was because of how diverse London was.  

Rob Hanna: Really?! Okay, we’ll definitely talk lots about diversity, as today’s topic is obviously about ‘Diversity Dodgers’ and you know really trying to talk about getting and raising awareness in that space, particularly in the legal sector. But I want to take a step back. Canada never been. Always wanted to go. Where do I need to go? What is there to do?

Lenie Ibanez: Okay! Well, first of all, Canada we’re not known for, you know, tropical weather.    

Rob Hanna: [Laughter]  

Lenie Ibanez: So [Laughter]

Rob Hanna: Don’t worry. We’ve not got it here either. 

Lenie Ibanez: Right now, it’s actually it’s just started snowing there. My family’s told me that it’s just non-stop snow, and I was saying, I don’t miss those days of just nonstop ploughing the driveway and the walkways. As good of a workout as that is, I’d rather go to the gym and do something else. So if if you’re gonna go to Canada, unfortunately, I would never recommend to come in the summer time. Come experience the winter because that’s what we’re known for. [Laughter]

Rob Hanna: OK, good, well I’m a lover of the outdoors, so I’m in for that and seeing what’s in store. So in terms of diversity, you know, everyone has their own sort of view and opinion on that, but for you, why is diversity particularly important and even more so in the legal sector?

Lenie Ibanez: Yeah, so diversity in the general sense has been important to me as I’ve experienced the need for it throughout my life, socially and professionally. And the need for inclusion in a globalised world is so, so important, I think, and having gone through the lack of it in the past, esp-especially. So being a child from an immigrant family.

Rob Hanna: Yep.

Lenie Ibanez: Moving to a very strange country where everything is different. I’ve had to really struggle with, do I try to fit in or do I try to stand out? And um – 

Rob Hanna: And which are you?

Lenie Ibanez: I’ve well, you know what, I’ve really tried to fit in. And then until honestly, recently, my move to London has made me emerge into this person that’s like, well, you know what? I am different and that’s what makes me me.  

Rob Hanna: Yep.

Lenie Ibanez: And it’s kind of come into full acceptance with that and then seeing how diverse London is, that’s really why I feel like this is the place for me.

Rob Hanna: Yeah, I totally agree. I love London. There’s so many different facets to it. There’s so many different sort of cultural, diverse aspects to the whole whole city in itself. So I totally get where you’re coming from. In terms of your role, you do so much particularly in diversity, but for people that probably quite new to sort of the term diversity leader, and I know it can mean different things to different people. But what does that mean in terms of your role and what have you been involved in?

Lenie Ibanez: So for the diversity leader aspect, it involves not only seeing the need for a diverse and inclusive world for all of us, but also walking that walk, not just talking the talk.

Rob Hanna: Mm.

Lenie Ibanez: And it means that taking action in every way that we can to help with the progression, whether that means by joining a society, volunteering for a non for profit cause, assisting with some pro bono work or carving your own path that you feel very passionately about that you think will make a change your difference for me. I fell into the diversity space the day I heard a brilliant woman called Dr Miranda Brawn speak at an event for the Women’s Network. She spoke so passionately about diversity and which really resonated with me. So since then she’s become my mentor and a very dear friend. And through her diversity foundation, the Miranda Brawn Diversity Foundation, I won the scholarship for the female empowerment and have become a part of the foundation family since, and I’ve been partaking directly and indirectly in the initiatives. And then I want to just kind of put a quote there, actually that from Miranda’s lecture this year. So it was a really, really great speech that she had. And if for those of you listening, if there are any takeaways that I would want anybody, you guys to have, it would be these three things, she said, ‘Diversity is having a seat at the table. Inclusion is having a voice,’ but she also introduced the notion of belonging. ‘This is something we haven’t heard of as we only know of the two terms above’. She mentioned belonging as ‘having a voice to be heard’. And I think ‘the combination of these three or so powerful that if we all implemented this at our workplaces or anywhere else, we can really assist in our own ways to make this progression, especially in the global world that we currently live in’.  

Rob Hanna: Okay, that’s really powerful. That is really, really insightful. Thanks for sharing that, Lenie. I’m sure a lot of people that will resonate with listening, and I’m sure you know that particular belonging piece is something that again, maybe people just are not so aware of. So it’s great that, you know, people like yourself,  people like Miranda are out there really sort of championing that.

Lenie Ibanez: Yes. So this year’s theme was used your voice for inclusion, and more next generation leaders such as myself are awarded with scholarships.

Rob Hanna: Mhmm.

Lenie Ibanez: And they’ve joined the foundation family. So check out the website and anyone pursuing an education can apply for the scholarships next year or attend the lecture as well, where I may or may not be the co-host again. [Laughs]

Rob Hanna: Come on, come on. Are you being modest? Is that gonna be happening or not happening?

Lenie Ibanez: Well –

Rob Hanna: [Laughter]

Lenie Ibanez: It may or may not be so I’m just kind of putting it out there. [Laughter]

Rob Hanna: Well, all of us from Legally Speaking hope that you, you get that, how about that. But you do so much in terms of other pro bono, volunteering schemes.  I know you’ve been part, for example, of the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change. I know you’ve established the University of Law, you’ve done various programmes for that society regarding diversity. But what are you most passionate about? Which one of those have you most enjoyed or which one of those do you most enjoy?

Lenie Ibanez: Yeah, well, that’s a really hard thing to pick between all of them because all are very near and dear to my heart. So the International Student Society is like my baby.

Rob Hanna: Okay.

Lenie Ibanez: I established that in wanting to have a network in the community for people such as myself, because I moved here to London not knowing a single soul. It was a rough few months. I mean, I met friends and met people because I had, that just comes naturally to me. However, I really wanted to connect with people who have the same issues, the same troubles and the same thoughts. And, you know, journey that I did.

Rob Hanna: Hmm.

Lenie Ibanez: And really I wanted to find my tribe. And by founding the International Student Society, I really think that I have done that. And I’ve created a great network for everybody to connect and share ideas, network and just build a community for everybody here.

Rob Hanna: Okay, tell us more about the Tony Blair Institute, sounds really interesting.

Lenie Ibanez: Yeah. So it is a the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change. I stumbled upon that when I was looking for more pro bono work during the summer.  

Rob Hanna: Mhmm.

Lenie Ibanez: And unfortunately, because the mentoring programme is for school-aged teenagers, I couldn’t do it over the summer. But I did apply for the September and it had just started. It’s the compass mentoring programme works to empower young women who were affected by extremism in London and Luton areas. And they, we provide support and guidance to help the youth, build their resistance and provide a sense of identity in society due to destructive ideologies. So I actually mentor a group of fabulous young ladies who are the age of 14 in a school in Luton.  

Rob Hanna: Okay.

Lenie Ibanez: And really, we help them to make goals, how to reach their goals and things that you don’t really learn in school. So again, this is so, this is sort of ironic that I won the Female Empowerment scholarship because this is tied into that and empowering the youth is something that’s really, really near and dear to my heart. I mean, I come from a big family, a family of eight for you guys who don’t know. [Laughter]

Rob Hanna: [Laughter] Yep.

Lenie Ibanez: And I’ve had lots of nieces and nephews and helping raise all of them. It’s been really helping empower and mentor these kids from a really young age, so that’s something that I’ve had training in. So these girls, we for the six month programme, we mentor them once a month. We teach them to really build their self confidence, reach for their goals and how to accomplish their goals, may be it short term, long term. And these are skills are going to carry throughout their life. So I think it’s such a brilliant, brilliant thing. And this is just one of the schemes that the foundation does because they do, um, the Tony Blair Institute does a whole bunch of things globally.

Rob Hanna: Wow, and that’s what’s really impressive because you do everything from sort of grassroots, right the way up to the senior spectrum, in the diversity scale. So I think that’s what’s really refreshing is that you’re sort of educating youth, but you’re carrying that through to sort of mi- jobbers and right the way up to the top. So, you know, good on you. 

Lenie Ibanez: Thank you.  

Rob Hanna: Okay. And from when you’re talking to law firms, meeting with various people in the legal profession, what have you seen as actually some of the positive changes from law firms with regards to diversity over the past few years. Like you said, you’ve come into London, you love, love the whole fact that is a big city based on inclusion, diversity. But what have you actually seen that is actually seen as some positive steps forward?

Lenie Ibanez: Well, what I’ve seen and I’ve been really been impressed with, are a lot of law firms that are taking actual departments or groups aside from, you know, just paid work where they have a multicultural network or a diversity group, and they have heads of diversity. And it’s an actual, you know, some people, it’s their actual paying job. And some people, it’s something they do outside of work because it’s something that they believe is really important, which is really impressive. And I’m really glad to see.

Rob Hanna: Yeah, okay, well, that is great to see, as you say. And what tips would you have, maybe for some law firms that maybe aren’t as advanced with that, that you think might be good for them to look at in terms of ways of improving their diversity initiatives?

Lenie Ibanez: Yeah, that’s really funny that you ask me that, Rob, because one of my old colleagues in the banking sector in Canada has reached out to me this weekend and said, ‘Wow, I’ve seen your profile and you’re just completely smashing it in diversity. We’re looking to include that in our workplace. Can you give us some tips?’

Rob Hanna: Yeah!

Lenie Ibanez: So it’s sort of related to that. And I’m just like, wow, you’re really asking me for that. But one of the things that I would say it, as a starter is that it’s a common, it’s a common theme, really in diversity and inclusion is that; it is a policy that people have. It’s something that people think they need to tick the box. 

Rob Hanna: Yeah.

Lenie Ibanez: Especially when you’re, I’ve experienced it myself and applied for jobs where they say, you know, are you a member of an ethnic minority? Or are you disabled? And all of that. And it’s like they want to tick the boxes they wanna have, you know, they want to hire their BAME representatives so that in their photos, it looks like, ‘Look at us, we’re inclusive, we’ve got…’ you know.

Rob Hanna: Yeah.

Lenie Ibanez: You know each each person represented here and things like that. But however, it’s not just for market, good for marketing. It’s not just good for PR and something that Miranda has also said in her lecture. It’s not just good for social media. It’s also good for business – 

Lenie Ibanez: Hmm.

Lenie Ibanez: To have everybody from a diverse background to really provide different perspectives.

Rob Hanna: Diversity is a very serious topic. But, you know, let’s have fun as well, you know. So, you know, you’ve been to tons of events, what have been some of your sort of funny stories or some of the funny things you’ve seen at some of these events or over your time? Particularly in this space.

Lenie Ibanez: Yeah, well, I mean, with everything that I do, it’s the one funny thing is that people are like, ‘Oh, yes. So are you a lawyer? What do you do?’ And I sir there and I’m like, where do I start? What do I say?

Rob Hanna: [Laughter] Well you’ve done so much!

Lenie Ibanez: Yeah, well, without sounding so bigheaded or what not? And I’m just like, do I just pick one? And I usually I say, well, ‘I wear many different hats’. Firstly, you know, I’m this and that and the other thing and people are just like, okay, I just I just asked one question, you know, chill out.

Rob Hanna: Yeah. Fair, fair. Okay and then, in terms of people hearing about things are there, you mentioned a few sort of events, but are there platforms? If people want to know more, particularly in the legal space or research into firms and what they’re doing aside from sort of their law firm websites. Is there anything you would sort of push people towards or to sort of go and check out?

Lenie Ibanez: Personally because the Miranda Brawn Foundation is close to my heart. Check out the website MB Diversity Leadership foundation dot com. So if you want to be a part of the lecture next year, apply for a scholarship and see what we’re doing in that space. Definitely check that out. Um, really, just looking at hashtag diversity on LinkedIn is a good one.  

Rob Hanna: Okay. 

Lenie Ibanez: And then a lot of the law firm’s, I’ve seen a lot of the big law firms here doing really amazing things in diversity. A lot of them have groups. Recently, one of the events at Reed Smith that I went to, I was really impressed with what they do. They have a multicultural network.

Rob Hanna: Oh wow.

Lenie Ibanez: They put on events internally and externally, and that’s how I got invited there, they had in a diversity summit, which I just missed. That’s actually how I got onto the roster to get invited to their exclusive events so that’s definitely a firm that I would recommend to people if they’re looking to get into that legal space. But a lot of them will have a tab on diversity on their websites, and that’s good to look at. And then from there you can also get in touch with them. Try to, see what events they’re having for recruitment or just for general interest.

Rob Hanna: Okay, and everyone talks about vision 2020. Um, you know, I don’t think I’ve met a business owner or someone in their own life whose got this big vision 2020. But for you, in terms of what you’ve got planned, what are your goals for 2020? And what are you hoping to achieve for the diversity in the legal space?

Lenie Ibanez: Okay, so always bigger and better when when it’s a new year, right? Everyone has all these big goals and big dreams, and I’m no different. So 2020, so for the International Students Society, we have, a full team of executives who are so passionate about diversity that I’ve brought on there, and we’re looking to bring really big events to, that actually combines the Moorgate and the Bloomsbury campus this year. So we’ve got bigger events, not just socials, which we’ve started to roll out, but we also put on formal events. In which we bring in speakers from law firms, people, legal professionals to help everybody at the University of Law who’s trying to achieve their goals and network with professionals and really get into the space.

Rob Hanna: Okay, sounds very exciting. And you mentioned, obviously we mentioned a top of the episode that you know not just London, but globally that we’re trying to really kind of shift this movement and raise awareness that you want to talk a bit more about that from a sort of global standpoint on sort of initiatives or things that you’ve got in the pipeline or ongoing?

Lenie Ibanez: Absolutely. I’m part of a lot of networks that do events globally and have kind of that global vision. So even the Miranda Brown Diversity Foundation, we joke around about having, you know, running it from all over the world, and maybe someday we’re all going to be in different parts of the world and having the lecture virtually

Rob Hanna: Yeah!

Lenie Ibanez: And just, you know, taking it that far. And like I said, I’m between here and Canada every so often so, I want to roll it out to people in my networks there. The International Student Society has people from all over the world. And I think after the society, after I’m no longer the president of the society, I still want to continue on. And, you know, everybody kind of still goes beyond the original society and have socials and just have networks that we’ve built that strong globally. 

Rob Hanna: Okay. Okay. And I, you know, I thought I’d made it when I was making a speech in the Supreme Court a few weeks ago. But then you usurp me by being a regular speaker in the House of Commons, which is some feat, so congratulations. 

Lenie Ibanez: [Laughter] Thank you!

Rob Hanna: But tell me more about how did that come about and again, cause that was all related to the good work that you do, right?

Lenie Ibanez: Yeah. I mean, you killed that speech Rob, so I can’t even say I’ve topped that, so!

Both: [Laughter]

Rob Hanna: So this is me giving Lenie £5.  

Lenie Ibanez: [Laughter]

Rob Hanna: You can’t see, but it’s definitely happening. Okay. Thank you. But this is your moment. So tell us more.

Lenie Ibanez: Well, again, this was through the foundation, and because Miranda mentors me and has asked me to co-host the first summer event there in which we were invited by Mr Speaker John Bercow himself and he was there.  

Rob Hanna: What’s he like? Is he as charismatic as he is on the TV?

Lenie Ibanez: He is! [Laughter] He’s a really cool guy, really chart.

Rob Hanna: He loves the coloured ties, right?

Lenie Ibanez: He does. That’s what he’s known for. [Laughter] Yeah, it was really generous of him to invite us, and it was such a beautiful event. We had musical guests there, and we had some really good speakers as well. And that’s the first of many. So, like I said, we’re gonna have so many amazing events like that. So definitely keep an eye out, and I will be blasting all of those out as well. Some of the events that I’m involved in, and some of the causes that I’m going to be a part of.

Rob Hanna: Okay. And look, everyone has a bit of downtime. I’m boring everyone week by week by the fact that I’m trying to keep fit with my my sort of stuff outside of work. But for you, what do you get up to for fun outside of work and what’s keeping you busy?

Lenie Ibanez: Okay, aside from all of this stuff that I really have put out there what keeps me busy? Well food is a big part of my family and my culture, so really – 

Rob Hanna: Favourite cuisine?

Lenie Ibanez: Favourite cuisine, ooh.  I can’t pick just one. So I have to pick top three.

Rob Hanna: Okay top three.

Lenie Ibanez: Italian, Japanese and Mexican.

Rob Hanna: I have to have to put a plugin that I just recently got back from Japan. I was out there for the Rugby World Cup. I’m still gutted we didn’t beat South Africa, but it was amazing to be there. And the food is just off the charts out there, right?

Lenie Ibanez: I was super jealous when you told me about that. I was just like, all I thought of was Rahman and sushi. And I was, like, really!

Rob Hanna: [Laughter]

Lenie Ibanez: That’s what you’re gonna go to you over there and watch rugby. How amazing is that?

Rob Hanna: Yeah! [Laughter] But no I’m definitely a big lover of food as well. And is there anything else as we sort of look to kind of wrap up, bringing it back to the legal world. It is a complex beast, the legal sector in general. What do, what would you say law firms, can do to make more of an impact with regards to change and diversity? To almost lead the way, you know? But generally, what do you think, more can be done, as sort of some snippets to maybe get people thinking?

Lenie Ibanez: Diversity more so in the legal sector is so important because, as legal professionals having the moral duty and integrity to adapt the rule of law, it would be hypocritical if the people we count on to defend what’s right and wrong are not living that truth. So having everybody from diverse backgrounds be part of the discussions, bringing welcoming everybody’s ideas, implementing those and making everybody feel welcome is, is really diversity and inclusion. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg right there.

Rob Hanna: Yeah, yeah, well said, I totally agree. And I think that’s a very valid point. And for one, to, you know, law firms and the legal sector to be mindful of. And Lenie, I need to ask about the Philippines. We talked about Canada, that’s somewhere again that I need to kind of be jet setting off to, where is the best place to go?

Lenie Ibanez: Oh, goodness. I am so sad to say this, Rob, but because I was only there till I was nine, I sadly have not explored the Philippines as much as I’d want to. I-I actually have a friend who’s going to see all the beautiful islands, and I was really jealous because I said, I haven’t even seen them. So I mean, Boracay is one that has a beautiful sands, really nice beaches and but that one’s very touristy.  

Rob Hanna: Yeah.

Lenie Ibanez: Coron is the one that you know is the diving and, um, surfing and all of that. And Cebu is one that’s really, really nice to see. Palau has nice caves.  

Rob Hanna: Aw okay!

Lenie Ibanez: So this is all not firsthand experience! [Laughter]

Rob Hanna: Yeah!

Lenie Ibanez: But all on my list and things I’ve been recommended myself. So one day, one day I’ll be able to give more sound advice. 

Rob Hanna: So Lenie, what advice would you give to people who are looking to get into the legal profession? Or maybe at the more junior spectrum with regards to their legal career with regards to diversity?

Lenie Ibanez: Yeah, Rob, that’s actually a question I get asked quite a bit through The International Student Society at the University of Law. Or just people I come across who are young people, aspiring or in their careers, and one of the things that we’ve done last year at the International Society and one of our very successful events that we’ve brought on, people who have successfully got training contacts with really big firms is that how to really get into these roles and competing with, you know, UK Nationals and one of the things that was really powerful and one of the best advice that I myself would give and that everybody had given is, to really see being diver- somebody from a diverse background, as just strength rather than your weakness. And that was really empowering because for myself, I used to think that was my downfall. And because and again it ties into Miranda’s three rules. Because for me, I know what it’s like to not have a seat at the table because I was different. I was a minority and I felt like I didn’t belong, and I didn’t feel like I, you know, me competing was with the people in the labour market, was made, you know, made it almost impossible. And then really using using that, your voice for inclusion because for me I wasn’t included. I didn’t use my voice and I had to conform but really, play that’s your strength, and that’s what you need to play up. And that’s what you bring to the table. So and then again belonging. So you want, everyone is looking for a culture and a place to belong, and that’s really important to do the research on that. Because don’t we all just want to belong?

Rob Hanna: Well said, well said. Couldn’t agree more. Okay, great. Well, I think the motto there celebrate, being you, right? Celebrate being an individual and enjoy.  

Lenie Ibanez: Exactly.

Rob Hanna: I think. Lenie, it’s been an absolute pleasure having you on today. I think everyone listening is gonna take away a lot of insights from that. For those you who are more sort of social media savvy. Do you wanna give a shout out to all your sort of things where people can follow you on social media?

Lenie Ibanez: Yeah, for sure. Well, before I do that, Rob, thank you again for making this dream come true. Because I’m such an avid podcast listener, not only to our newly launched podcast here, but also to many other podcasts that are informative and thought-provoking and motivational. So thank you. And I’ve always said I want to launch my own podcast one day or be on one. So thanks for featuring me. This has been such a pleasure and an honour.

Rob Hanna: Our absolute pleasure. 

Lenie Ibanez: [Laughter] So, you can find me on LinkedIn Lenie Ibanez. L E N I E. Surname is I B A N E Z and I can provide you with the other links to my other social media or a lot of the things that I’m doing in the other spaces there. Thanks a lot, Rob.

Rob Hanna: Cheers. Thanks for coming and over and out.