Creating Equitable Access to Representation – Joshua Brumley  – S8E8

Get an inside look at the world of personal injury law with Joshua Brumley, the CEO of Brumley Law Firm. In this episode, we explore the realm of equitable justice, including Josh’s work to ensure that non-English-speaking people in the USA can access reliable legal representation and safeguard themselves and their families. We also touched on Josh’s fascinating professional background, including how he juggles so many roles while managing his firm.  


So why should you be listening in?  

You can hear Rob and Josh discussing: 

  • How to use social media to educate people on personal injury law 
  • The dangers of predatory insurance practices 
  • Why legal education is so important for immigrants  
  • The ethical implications of personal injury law 
  • Advice for aspiring personal injury lawyers  



Robert Hanna 00:00 

Welcome to the legally speaking podcast. I’m your host Rob Hanna. This week I’m delighted to be joined by Joshua Bromley Joshua is the CEO of Brimley law firm. He graduated from the University of Washington completed his MBA at Jacksonville University and attended Florida custodial School of Law. Joshua has experience as an off Council equity partner and managing partner Joshua is a member of the Board of Directors at the Pierce County Centre for dialogue and resolution where he gives back to the community by volunteering. Joshua is passionate about empowering individuals from marginalised groups in society. Joshua’s work has been recognised as he was selected to rising stars between 2020 and 2023. So a very big warm welcome, Joshua. 

Joshua Brumley 00:46 

Thank you for having me, Rob.  

Robert Hanna 00:48 

Oh, it’s a pleasure to have you on the show. And before we dive into all your amazing projects, experiences, and everything, you’re getting up too, in and around the legal community. We do have an icebreaker question here on the legally speaking podcast, which is on a scale of one to 1010 being very real, what would you rate the hit TV series suits in terms of its reality of the law on a scale of one to 10? If you’ve seen it, 

Joshua Brumley 01:13 

they have seen it. I think, when I was a one L in law school, first year in law school, I remember one of the early episodes of the show, talking about contracts requiring offer acceptance and consideration. And I was like, Whoa, this is exactly what I’m learning right now. And after that, literally nothing else about the show was real. And I completely stopped watching it. And I don’t love the show. 

Robert Hanna 01:40 

So with that, we’ll assume a very low score and move swiftly on to talk about the realities of the law and indeed your your tremendous career. So obviously, I touched on very briefly in the introduction, but would you mind telling our listeners a little bit more about that background and career journey today? 

Joshua Brumley 01:56 

Sure, yeah. I, I’ve always been sort of a business minded person, My undergrad was in business management. And I remember being on the plane to fly to Florida coastal School of Law. And, and when I was when I was on the flight, I remember thinking, this might be the stupidest thing I’ve ever done. I know nothing about being a lawyer, but I’m gonna go for it. And during law school, I realised very quickly that I have a skill set that that helped me to be successful comparatively to other people who have maybe more of a adverse reaction to public speaking. My background prior to law school, I liked to play live music, and I booked a lot of bands and played in some bands. And so that same feeling of being on stage in in a live music event, it was the same feeling I got from public speaking and doing debates and things like that. So it was very easy for me to transition into that public speaking role that other people apparently have just a real serious fear and aversion to. And so that helped me a bit. Because I just didn’t have that natural reaction. 

Robert Hanna 03:09 

Yeah, I love that you talk about your journey from sort of being in bands. And because we’ve had lots of attorneys and lawyers come on the show over the years, and, you know, trial lawyers, they talk about the importance of being an artist, in some respects, in terms of trying to put your case across and having that confidence and, and everything that you refer to. So if that’s sort of built within you, and that comes naturally to you, that’s great. But where did I guess the original spark for law specifically come from what what inspired you to really want to go into the law? 

Joshua Brumley 03:37 

I think there’s many different things I attribute to that. That journey, I don’t think it was one thing specifically, I think it was, you know, everything happens for a reason in my life kind of led down a path of many stairs. And one of the one of the easier things to discuss, I think is is that when I was doing live music, I was, you know, 1819 years old, 20 years old. And then I started booking my own shows around 21 years old, and the city that I lived in, you know, they they had all these requirements. And so I would book a live show at a at a local American Legion hall or something like that. It’d be a one off thing. And I said, Oh, well, maybe I should just rent a space that I have my name on a lease and do these things repeatedly, like open a business open a live music venue. And so I signed a lease on just, you know, the dungeon is grossest place. I could I could afford that, that, you know, as a 21 year old, I’m hopeful that enough people come to these shows that I can make the rent, you know, something like $1,000 a month and I was like, Ah, this is so crazy. I don’t know how I’m gonna make $1,000. And, and the city came in in the first month and said, Hey, this is not zoned properly. It’s not a public occupancy space. You can’t have live music events here and so What is What does that even mean? I’m, I don’t know what you’re talking about. And then I signed a lease on a second space. And the city the fire marshal came down again and said, No, man, you can’t do this here. We just told you this shut it down. And they shut down my venue a second time. And it was like in newspapers that I was shut down. And nothing bad happened, there was no fire or anything like that. They just were like, stopped signing leases on places, you’re not allowed to do this kind of, of work in kid. And so I ended up going down to the city engineer building and, and asking, like, hey, what do I need to know? What do I need to understand to get this done properly. And they showed me all these building codes and laws and stuff that I just didn’t really understand. And, and I had to dig into it. And I had to have a lot of conversations with the city code and city enforcement people down at City Hall. And I was just this young kid I at that point, hadn’t even finished my undergrad career. So basically no college under my belt. And, and here I am learning and then eventually arguing politely with the city officials saying no, these rules shouldn’t apply. These are the ones that should apply. And here’s why. And it got to the point where either they were so sick of hearing from me, or they agreed with me that they agreed with me. So eventually I got a live music space opened that is still open to this day. It’s called real art Tacoma. It’s a licenced nonprofit agency in the city of Tacoma, Washington, and I’m not involved with it anymore. The law firm career kind of took precedence and I bowed out. But the people that are running it now are still very dedicated to youth and art and music. And I think it’s an incredibly important thing and led me down this path to wow, if I could do that, what else could I do to help people? 

Robert Hanna 06:56 

Absolutely, and that you are doing and I guess 2015 was a big year for you because you founded your own law firm. So you know, what were your motivations behind setting up your own firm? 

Joshua Brumley 07:07 

Well, I went away for law school, I moved from Seattle, Washington, which is the northwest of the United States, all the way down to Florida for law school, which is the southeast basically as far from home as I could be within the continental United States. So when I when I moved down there, I didn’t know if I was going to stay if I was going to come home, and my legal network, during law school was really in Florida. And so after moving back home, I didn’t have a lot of those connections that I had built in Florida here at home. And I was applying for jobs but didn’t have experience because I was a brand news, just just minted attorney with a bar number that had never been in court. And so people were just you know, that’s not what they’re looking for when they want to hire a new associate. They want someone with like, three years of experience, and that’s what they call a nude associate. So I had to start volunteering for some local nonprofits. And during my time volunteering for Tacoma, pro bono, which is a legal aid organisation dedicated to family law. I met some attorneys who were looking for people to help them in a public defence role that was paid, but very, very part time. And I met a family law attorney who was interested in working with me. So I did some contract work for both of them, got some courtroom experience, and then opened my own firm to start really just taking cases on my own from the experience I got from them.  

Robert Hanna 08:41 

Yeah, well, good for you. And I love that sort of ambition. The firm specialises in personal injury. So could you explain what personal injury services you offer? 

Joshua Brumley 08:51 

Yeah, so I’m in Washington are the United States specialisation is is a term of art that has to have some sort of connotation with like a certification or something. So our focus is personal injury. But we’re not a specialised firm. I don’t I’m not aware of any that are, quote, unquote, specialised. But all that being said, it doesn’t mean we are better or worse than any other personal injury firm. I think we are but there’s no documentation that says that. The the focus of personal injury is really just, we say car crash called Josh. And while we can help with you know, slip and fall premises liability type cases, or dog bite cases, we really pride ourselves in exceeding expectations in recoveries on car accident cases. And so that’s our our goal with marketing is to find and assist people who have been injured in a motor vehicle accident. 

Robert Hanna 09:55 

Yeah, and I guess that’s going to be a super interesting space looking forward. with autonomous vehicles, and you know, there’s a lot to sort of think about there in terms of where does that ultimate liability and maybe that’s a whole new podcast, in itself in terms of, we’ll have to get you back on to talk about that. And you know, what potentially lies ahead. But you know, your firm, you have experienced legal representation always listen, always communicate, have the right approach and have a compassionate care. So would you mind just going into a little bit more detail about those areas? For our listeners?  

Joshua Brumley 10:29 

Sure, sure. Um, so I think a lot of from from a lawyer point of view, I think a lot of lawyers have a hard time getting a client to sign on the dotted line, when they do an intake, I think a part of the problem with that process is people don’t have that sales gene. And as a business person, prior to my engagement in being a lawyer, I think I’ve always had that sales gene, as as a young man, I was selling candy to the neighbourhood kids, you know, that’s just something that’s been innate in me, like my public speaking. But for people who don’t have that as a skill set and have to build that as a skill set, I think that you know, you spend a tonne of money on leads, you finally get the phone to ring. And then if that person doesn’t sign up, there’s this incredible pressure on the next phone call to get them to sign up. And that feeling of desperation comes across to people. And so confidence is really key. And when we say we’re good at listening, I think it’s incredibly important when we’re doing an intake, and I coach all my staff this way, just get them to tell their story. If a client calls you and says, I need to sign up about how I had a car accident, I had a slip and fall, I had a dog bite, you say oh my gosh, tell me what happened. Because the more time you’re on the phone with this person, the more that you’re connecting with this person, the easier it’s going to be for them to feel like they want a sign. And then you don’t have the pressure, the burden, the sales part of it really breathing down your neck. When people give their story, you know, spent 30 minutes on a phone call telling an intake person. Yeah, this is my background. This is where I work. This is my history of prior car accidents or prior injuries. This is my you know, insurance information. This is my health insurance information. This is the outfall parties. And all of these details are incredibly important when you’re doing an intake. And if you jump right to the end and say yeah, here’s the contract, please sign. That’s pushy. And and people don’t know, first and foremost, that contingency fee means you don’t pay us any money unless we recover money for you. And when they hear that, then there’s no reason that they shouldn’t sign up with an attorney. But there might still be a reason that they don’t like you and your firm. And so understanding that in this space, most, if not all attorneys, as far as I’m aware of in Washington state, all attorneys charge the exact same price. So the pricing model is not something that they’re going to be able to shop around for. And you can encourage them to call another firm and say, Hey, this is the industry standard 33 and 1/3 percent of the recovery is what everyone’s going to charge you. So really the only difference that you’re seeing, it’s not about price, you’re not shopping around for price, your price, you’re shopping around for service. And so what’s that service level look like? And that’s the next component. So always be listening, do a good job on these intakes understand what the client’s needs are, what the what they need from you to feel better throughout this process, what their level of communication requirements going to be. Some people require a lot, some, some people say just handle it and tell me what I need to do. And everyone’s different. So understanding what those needs are, and then servicing those needs individually giving client focused service to that person. Incredibly important. And and you’re only able to do that if you understand the person you’re talking to. So just give them the opportunity to talk put them on a pedestal lift them up. Understand if they have children that were in the car, how are their children doing that’s an incredible, stressful thing, understand if if they’re working, are they able to get to work? Do they need a rental car immediately? What is their boss, telling them about how soon they need to be back at work? You know, rich people don’t usually hire a personal injury attorney for a non catastrophic accident. Low income and middle class people do and those are the people who need to make it back to work immediately. And so understanding that a lot of their point of view is not going to be based on their personal physical health, but about their rent and their ability to provide for their families and understanding that point of view when you Doing that intake is incredibly important. Because they might say, I’m fine, I’m fine, I’m fine. But really what they’re saying is, I’m more concerned about how I’m going to get to work to provide for my family. And if you can give them that peace of mind, and then encourage them to get the medical care that they’re going to need, that is going to be paid for by the at fault party’s insurance. There’s no reason for them not to do that. But I think that a lot of people have a hard time describing that process and helping people feel empowered in that process to do what they need to do to maximise their settlement value or their claim value. And education is just really key in that intake process. 

Robert Hanna 15:42 

Yeah, and I have to say, it’s an absolute masterclass for anyone in terms involved. Sorry, in legal in sales, in consulting in business, you know, I love you know, going back to your your first question, you know, that was an empathy statement. That was an open question, tell me about, you know, you’re getting them to open up, you’re meeting them with that human connection. And then, you know, it was talked about the three principles in terms of getting people to buy it’s time quality or cost. So if cost and the price isn’t the issue, it’s going to be the quality of the service in terms of okay, so how are you really meeting them as that human individual and then, you know, potentially could be a time sensitive matter as well. So absolute masterclass there in terms of need, wants, understanding your, your clients, and being there and making yourself stand out as a professional and just, you know, the line of questioning. So, absolutely, just rewind that question, folks. Listen to that again, and take some nuggets of wisdom away, because that was, that was brilliant. Okay, so let’s talk about what people may be unfamiliar with. We’ve got listeners all around the world, not just in the US, not just in the UK. But now those who might be unfamiliar with what stages of making a personal injury claim looks like a case looks like in western Washington, can you give us a bit of a flavour of that? 

Joshua Brumley 16:50 

Sure. So car accident happens, we encourage our clients to always call the police having a statement, a police report that’s written by a third party, like a police officer that can help determine liability when liability is not clear, you know, rear end accidents, it’s usually almost always clearly the car behind who is at fault for following too closely, or X, Y or Z other issues. But when it’s not a rear end collision, liability is not always cut as cut and dry as we’d like it to be. And so taking photos, getting a police report, having evidence that can bolster our position for our clients is something that we can’t do after the accident has already occurred. So making sure the clients if anyone in the United States is listening, I’m sure this advice is very similar anywhere, but photos of the surrounding area photos of both cars, property damage that can help with reconstruction. You know, if if it’s a Sideswipe accident, one car might be over a lane, and that car who’s over the lane is probably going to be the car that’s found at fault. So we want photos of how the cars came to rest. We want photos of Skid Marks, we want photos of the surrounding businesses, the streets, and there might be camera footage that could be accessible, that we only find from searching nearby those those businesses and stuff. So understanding that photography, and documentation is really key. A lot of times people say well, we didn’t want to do a police report, the other guy had, you know, he had his kids in the car, he had to get to work at XYZ. But then later on, they find out that the other party said that they were driving away, they drove a block away. And then they called the police and said that the other party of my my client was at fault. So protect yourself. Don’t let people leave the scene without calling the police. If the police don’t come, you can still file your own police report online. We encourage that. It’s it’s less persuasive when it’s written by yourself. But at least it’s a document that we can say, Look, this accident happened. Here’s proof this accident happened. And this is the date and time and our clients point of view about the accident. So an attorney can help you understand how to do that. If the police didn’t come, and then we open the claims process with the at fault party’s insurance, that process can take you know, weeks, it can take months, it can take years, it just depends on the level of injury and the treatment that’s involved. Every case is really unique. And you know, you hear that all the time, but it’s really true. The level of injuries determine the timeframe for the most part that someone’s going to be treating, and the level of insurance also comes into play if, for example in Washington state, our minimum insurance policy for liability is 25,000 per person. So If someone hits you, and you have broken bones, and you’re taking in a helicopter to the hospital, the insurance company is going to be chomping at the bit to just send you that $25,000 insurance policy and close this case, because they know that your medical bills are going to far exceed what their liability is, unless they mess something up and open themselves up to judgement in excess of that, that policy. So they’re gonna just say, here’s the 25,000. But if it’s a million dollar policy, that might not be the case, contrarily, if it’s a $25,000 policy, but it’s relatively minor, body damage to the car, the insurance company might really dispute paying any of your medical bills, and so that might make the process take longer. So understanding what how much pie or how deep the pockets are from the person who hit you, that really comes into play for how long your your case might take. If it’s a small pie with serious injuries, it’s going to be over quickly. But if it’s a big pie, with serious injuries, a big pie with less serious injuries, or a small pie with less serious injuries, it just might take months, years, you know, however long it takes, it also depends on the insurance adjuster, every person that’s involved with these cases has a different history of of experience and negotiation style. Some of them are very aggressive, some of them are very friendly. And you know, my negotiation style, I think You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. That’s the that’s the saying. And so I tried to come in friendly, until there’s a reason not to. And then I just filed the lawsuit and negotiate with the defence attorney. And so we’re not we’re not shy about filing lawsuits over here. But it’s a conversation that we have on a case by case basis. And it’s not a requirement to file a lawsuit to negotiate and resolve a claim for personal injury. 

Robert Hanna 22:03 

No, I love that. And again, thank you for being so thorough on how it all sort of work. So I want to talk about something else that I know is very important to you is about sort of helping everyone as much as possible. And what I’m referring to as those impacts marginalised communities or who do not speak English natively, or especially perhaps likely to receive unfair treatment or not understand their actual rights. So how do you go about explaining to clients their rights? And how do you ensure they have a clear understanding of the legal process? 

Joshua Brumley 22:33 

Well, I’m, I try really hard to be active in the in the local community here in the city of Kent that I’m sitting at right now, this is an incredibly diverse city, comparatively, with the rest of Western Washington, we have many, many different people who English is their second language, and a lot of organisations, nonprofit agencies in the area that are dedicated to one diverse group or another. And so I network with those groups to put on Know Your Rights events. And they will always provide translator services, from English to whatever language for example, we’re very close with the Iraqi Association. We do know your rights events there on a regular basis, and the people in the Iraqi organisation are all bilingual, so that they can help the individuals who come to the organisation to better. Better, what’s the word I’m looking for gosh, engage in American culture and society and understand how laws work and what processes are for obtaining car insurance or, you know, things that we kind of take for granted where we just pick up a phone and call, you know, people don’t really understand car insurance, actually, you know, who are who are born and raised in the United States. So imagine going to another country and trying to understand in a different language, how you I am and Pip, and liability and all the all the different coverage, you know, I could put on clinics about that for just English speakers. So the idea of trying to understand those those concepts in other countries is just something that I couldn’t imagine going to Iraq and trying to understand how their insurance works from people who don’t speak English. But having these folks here who need help, understanding what the requirements are so that they’re not driving without insurance, and they want to do things the right way, but they just don’t know where to start. So putting these clinics on has been really, really beneficial. And we have brochures that are translated in a lot of different languages so that when we put on these events, people can kind of take away some of the Know Your Rights stuff. When we do these Know Your Rights clinics. We also Oh, engage with other legal professionals or insurance professionals to kind of put on like a panel, so that the information that they’re getting isn’t just from me about specific car accident related items. But I also encourage maybe a friend who does immigration to come with, or a friend who sells insurance to come with, so that people can have that robust network kind of built for legal resources or insurance resources that they might not have known that they needed access to. And now they’re right here in front of you. So I tried to put on those panels with a diverse group of people. So it’s not just me talking about car accidents. But I also have a history of doing other areas of law. So criminal defence, I think is something that a lot of people are worried about when they have immigration consequences. And so they don’t want to call the police, even if they’re the victim of a car accident, because they’re worried about deportation removal proceedings, that kind of stuff. And I always encourage everyone in Washington state, every state is very different about their immigration policies. But at least in Washington State, no police officers going to cart you away and call ice and get you removed, they’re going to write up the police report how the accident happened. And your immigration status is not part of any of the car accident proceedings. So I don’t think that that’s something to be worried about. But I understand that that’s something that people are consistently worried about in these underserved communities. And so they don’t call the police. And then they don’t understand that the other party did. And then they don’t understand that they’re being sued, and they don’t have insurance. And so a lot of things can come into play, just from hoping that no police will be called. So protect yourself, protect your rights, we say protect your neck, get the get the police involved and get a report to protect yourself. 

Robert Hanna 27:05 

And that’s very true, isn’t it? That you know, you have to take the steps to protect yourself, you can’t just rely on on hoping things are gonna go in the right direction, because unfortunately, if you do, it could probably not end up in your favour. And it’s interesting use the Iraqi example. And you know, I’m actually have a rocky myself. So that kind of really resonated with me in terms of when you’re giving those examples. And so I want to talk a bit more about how you manage it all. Because alongside the work with your firm, you also understand litigate for other firms, I believe so would you mind telling us about the work you do with with other firms? And how does that work? Because I’m sure a lot of people listening and a bit like a CEO of he’s doing this, this, this, this? And this? How does this other stuff work? 

Joshua Brumley 27:46 

Well, I guess the first, the first most important thing is, is having a really robust, dependable staff that can help run things when I’m away. Because if I’m in court, if I’m in trial, if I’m in a deposition, and something’s exploding, I need staff that’s that’s dependable, that would do things how I would do them and understand that they need to get a hold of me, then don’t take action and get a hold of me but but I have a really wonderful staff that’s taken years to cultivate into the leaders that we have in the firm and the the dependable staff that we have in the firm. And that’s something that that’s not an easy thing to achieve. So first and foremost, I just said, I couldn’t do any of these things without the staff that I have. That being said, I think a lot of lawyers who are kind of dipping their toe into this industry, personal injury and motor vehicle accidents, specifically, they see the idea of it being incredibly lucrative, and how many people are trying to find cases in this area. And so they’ll sign up cases, but not really know how to do the case and think I’ll just learn as I go. That’s incredibly dangerous in any area of law to learn as you go, if this is someone you care about, you don’t want to learn on their case. And if it’s someone you don’t care about, you probably should. So I try to encourage the lawyers in my network to send their car accident cases to my firm. And if they want to litigate with me or have me litigate these cases, I will. And so a lot of these attorneys that I work with, just they have experience doing other areas of law. And if the negotiations before filing the lawsuit break down where they can’t get the amount of money that the client deserves or that they value the case at then they send the case to me to actually do the litigation portion because I’m just set up to do this kind of litigation in a way that they aren’t and so, we work with a number of firms doing that. If there are anyone listening who has a car car accident case in Washington State and isn’t happy with their attorney, or they’re an attorney who just is maybe out of their element, you know, doesn’t understand what winters fees are, or Hamilton letter is, or any of the important things that that are associated with obtaining policy limits and why that’s important than probably you shouldn’t be doing this. And you should focus on one solid type of law and just get really great at that. And that’s what we’re trying to do here at Bromley law firm. And I think we do a great job of it. 

Robert Hanna 30:36 

Yeah, I think I’ve said this a few times on the show, one of my favourite sort of Bruce Lee quotes of all time is something along the lines of You know, I don’t fear the man who’s practised 10,000 kicks, I fear the man who’s practised one kick 10,000 times and really that kick that one particular kick that specialisation is really what you know, people go to. And so I think you gave a really good example of that. And I knew you’re kind of touching on it there before, but just again, because just to get people to be aware, and you want to help and educate as much as possible, between, you know, let’s be frank predatory insurance company practices and attorneys who do not take time to sort of really communicate the process, what are the potential dangers or challenges clients could face? 

Joshua Brumley 31:18 

What clients don’t know what a good value for their claim is. And that’s really clear to me. The problem is, if you have a bad attorney, or an inexperienced attorney, or an attorney who’s really just like, I have to settle this case, because I got to keep the lights on and I need the money, even the attorney might not know that they’re doing it, they might not want to do it. And they just don’t know what they don’t know. And so I really went into this in a small amount in the beginning. But understanding how big the pie is what that policy limit is really like a basic first step of understanding how much you can get. And if you’re settling a claim for 22,000. And it’s a $25,000 policy, and the client had uninsured motorist coverage, then you don’t get access to the secondary pie, the UI M coverage, you don’t get access to a whole other value of case, because you settled the claim for less than the policy limit. And if you didn’t know that it was a $25,000. Policy. You don’t know that you’re $3,000 away from unlocking a whole other desert. So yeah, so understanding, understanding that that policy limit is the most important thing. And I see it so much that that other law firms who maybe aren’t as familiar with this process are just not getting this information. And and there’s just no way to evaluate a case. If you don’t know, that threshold issue. 

Robert Hanna 33:03 

I think it’s details mattered out there. And I think understanding, you know, needing those details or understanding what it means to have that particular information is super, super important. Because like you say, you don’t know what you don’t know. And so that’s the value that we’re bringing, bringing there. And you know, people always say, you know, again, a lawyer friend of mine said, you know, people don’t ask you to hire attorneys to answer questions. They hire attorneys, because they know the right questions to ask in the first place. Right. And that’s to your point about the policy limit and everything else that’s going right. So I think that’s really where the the wisdom and what you’re getting in terms of that value. One thing that is still needs work in progress. And that’s for sure, and something that we advocate for on the show. And I just want to clear also does and I’m sure you do is access to justice, how are you encouraging access to justice in western Washington? What steps do you believe still needs to be taken to improve the access to justice in your state?  

Joshua Brumley 33:56 

Well, a common consideration in in Washington is what does a jury look like for a client? So understanding that diverse juries are beneficial, and non diverse, juries can damage people. So that’s a focus that there’s a tonne of of research on and and I think when you put it in plain terms like that everyone can agree that if you you have a client who looks or sounds completely different than what the jury is made up of, they might not be as empathetic as a jury who does look and sound like the person that you’re representing. And so keeping that in mind when you’re doing voir, dear and and when you’re preparing for a trial and all of that, understanding that language barriers are really difficult for people to overcome. I only speak one language I can’t imagine being bilingual. I can’t imagine going through Word process or a deposition in a different language, even if your client is considerably articulate in English if English is their second language for a deposition, please always, always always request that the person deposing them provide an interpreter. It’s paid for by the person deposing them, there’s absolutely no downside to it. And it helps them to understand the questions better that might be asked in a way to trip them up. And and if they’re asked in in their second language, it’s more likely it’s going to trip him up. So so get a get a translator, get an interpreter for any legal proceedings, that that your client is going to be asked questions in a in a recorded on the record type way. And, gosh, there’s so much of that comes to mind doing these clinics doing these Know Your Rights events, incredibly important. I think a lot of attorneys are interested in donating money, I’m a vocal proponent that money is not enough. And money is not what these organisations need to survive, they need people, they need time dedicated to the people that they serve. And so volunteering for organisations like to come a pro bono, or these Know Your Rights events, to put them on to take, take initiative and create a way for people to learn about their legal rights, outside of what you do on a normal nine to five basis is just super important. And I know that that’s a big ask, and you know, my staff is, is, like I said, an incredibly important part of why I’m able to do those things. But I don’t think it’s impossible. And the attorneys who you know, want to get off work at 5pm every day and go home and do their their home life. That’s okay. But those are not the attorneys that are going to be seen as community leaders and seen as people that that get referrals. And so if you’re worried about when your next case is coming through the door, maybe you should ask yourself, what you’re doing for the community to engage. 

Robert Hanna 37:18 

Yeah, and it’s a good point, isn’t it? Because ultimately, you know, community is everything when you strip it back. And I think the more that you can do for others, and you know, as a result of that, not necessarily doing it to give to receive, but ultimately, it’s good from just a reputational point of view and being known and being trusted. And as a good citizen, the ultimate good things happen from doing good things. And talking of exciting and good things. This is another big year for you, because you have a book coming out. And you alluded to the sort of comment earlier, protect your neck. So tell us a bit about what your book is all about what they can expect? Well, 

Joshua Brumley 37:51 

the book is, it is called protect your neck. And it’s the keys to maximising your car accident settlement, every one of my clients is going to receive a copy of this book for free. I think it’s it’s a an amalgamation of a lot of frequently asked questions and frequently given advice that my firm provides to our clients. And so it was like, at one point, I just said, Man, I should just sit down and write all this out. And then I don’t have to give it in the same phone call methods over and over again, I still think I’m going to end up giving it on a regular basis. But I think that if people have a way, if they’re interested, if they have a way to read this book, there’s going to be 12 chapters, it’s not going to be a small book, but 12 chapters of of just what does it mean, to keep your social media private, and stories and anecdotal evidence of how that has negatively impacted other people’s claims in a very significant way. Understanding that the insurance company is able to get every time you’ve punched into your gym, they can subpoena the gym to get all of your swipe ins. And if you’re saying you’re injured, but then they see on video, you bench pressing 250 pounds, that video is going to come up. And that video is going to be used as evidence against you. So understanding what tools the insurance company has to minimise your claims so that you can be proactive before those are issues, I think is incredibly important part of the process. And so educating my clients, if I could spend, you know, hours at a time, over and over and over just saying hey, don’t do this, please do that. Don’t do this, please do that. I would but at this point, we have a lot of clients. And the time to give that one on one with just me and them is very limited. And so I wanted to still be a resource in a way that I could be robust with what I’m doing Driving to them. And this book is my method for doing that. But it’s completely available to the public. It’s free for any of my clients, but it would absolutely benefit anyone going through a car accident in any state. 

Robert Hanna 40:12 

Yeah, and absolutely, and we would definitely encourage people to go and check it out for for sure in due course. Okay, I want to also talk about podcasting, because you don’t just stop being an author, you know, running a firm, you’ve also got your own podcast, the iron mind podcast. So what are some of the topics you’ve discussed? And who is your dream? Guest? 

Joshua Brumley 40:31 

Well, some of the topics that we’ve discussed are things that I’ve talked about so far on the on the show here today, winters fees, Moller fees, those, those very complicated calculations that people who are just dipping their toes in personal injury might not even know exist. And so understanding that these things are a part of of negotiating these claims, and how to calculate these fees in a way that there isn’t a lot of resources on the internet for Washington specific personal injury specific methods for calculating these fees. So I tried to think about the things as a young lawyer that I had to go seek out and learn and provide all of those resources in one specific way without it being taught specifically by me. So I have a guest on every episode, the guest is someone who I found valuable in my career. And I say, explain to us in gory detail how XY and Z works. So it’s really personal injury focused and entrepreneurship focused. So if you’re a personal injury attorney, you’re going to see incredible value in it. If you run your own firm, you’re going to see incredible value in it. And if you’re a personal injury attorney in Washington, who runs your own firm, it’s going to be top tier for you, there’s not going to be another podcast like it. So I really encourage anyone who’s like me who started their own firm who does personal injury work to really give it a listen. Every episode has value and and I really love it. But the the second question that you had was who’s my dream guest and it’s kind of a joke. But we’ve we’ve attempted to get a lot of celebrities, I think it’s cool that you had Carole Baskin on yours. The most, the most recent guests that turned us down politely was was Bill Nye, the Science Guy from Seattle. I don’t know if you’re familiar with him, but but he’s a local hometown hero. And I would love to have him on on the show to talk about his engineering background and the science behind car accidents or plane accidents and the things that he might know about from his experience working at Boeing and all these other cool places. But I’ve also tried to get some famous celebrity comedians and things like that just people that might have been in car accidents to talk about their experiences. Tracy, Tracy Morgan is a really famous comedian and tried really hard to contact him but kind of out of the budget for for the first season here. Maybe we’ll see how we’re how we’re doing in a couple couple months, couple years and see if we got to budget for Tracy. 

Robert Hanna 43:19 

Absolutely. Well, Tracy Bell, all of the big stars, if you are listening, which I’m sure you hopefully are, make sure you get in touch with Josh and his, his team. So I think they’ll make awesome episodes and there’s real value in those shows. Okay, so we’ve talked about obviously, you’re authoring work, talk about your podcasting work. Let’s talk about social media because you can’t avoid it. You know, you need to be there in 2024. That’s for sure. So you’re pretty active on LinkedIn, Instagram, X, Facebook, etc. How do you utilise social media platforms to build your personal brand alongside educating and informing your followers? 

Joshua Brumley 43:53 

Well, I think it’s important for social media to not be a carbon copy of every other lawyers social media. So that’s, that’s an incredibly difficult thing to do. But I don’t know anyone who hired an attorney because they made a Happy Father’s Day post on social media. So I’m not incredibly tied to those types of, hey, it’s a US holiday, happy Groundhog’s Day, everyone or whatever. I think that that’s a cop out for a social media manager to have something to post because they aren’t creative. And I try very hard to work with my social media team to have creative posts. And that’s super difficult. Because it’s very easy to just put out content, but content that’s engaging is difficult. And that’s what people seek out content that’s engaging content that they can learn from content that has value. And so putting things in the ether that say, Happy Birthday to our parents. Go. While it’s important for that paralegal to feel valued, that paralegal might not even have social media and never see the post. So then you’ve got a whole bunch of content, happy Groundhog’s Day, happy birthday to our receptionist, happy anniversary to one of our attorneys with zero engagement. And that actually has a negative impact on your your reputation on social media. So I refuse to make those kinds of posts, because I don’t want my social media to be seen by someone who’s vetting my business as something that has no engagement. So our staff, the staff that is involved with social media, they’re tagged in every one of our posts, so that their personal Instagram, they’re sharing it, and that engagement really helps us to grow our reach. And I am disheartened on a regular basis when I follow a new law firm, and I say, wow, these are beautifully curated posts, beautiful pictures, great graphics, good articulate captions, and two likes, and they’re probably both people on the social media team. And that’s just, it’s so cringy. And I hate to see it, and I never want my content to be viewed that way. So I try really hard to think of creative skits or creative posts that are just different than happy Groundhog’s Day. 

Robert Hanna 46:30 

Yeah, no. And I think, you know, you’re right. You know, we’ve had a whole host of guests come on the show, and we’ve had some of the, you know, we’ve always had, like, built more of a meme, the meme Lord on the show, and, you know, he talks about sort of the creative posts and the art of the creator, you know, in terms of getting your message across that’s engaging in educational and, you know, builds, builds a good brand. And you’re right, there’s no point just copying what’s already out there. You want to be original, you want share your wisdom, but you want to do it in a creative way. And like you say, that takes work. So it’s great that you’re looking at that way, and it’s great that you’re giving value to to people in your community. So this has been a masterclass start to finish, as I always knew it was going to be Josh, what would be before we look to wrap up your sort of final piece of advice for any aspiring lawyers want to pursue a career in personal injury law? 

Joshua Brumley 47:18 

Yeah. So I think that making sure that you have a mentor is incredibly important, understanding that, you know, anyone can learn what they’re doing wrong. And and you don’t know if you’re not asking questions. So find an attorney who knows more than you do about an area that you’re interested in practising with, and work directly with them, learn from them, work on cases with them, donate your time to them. I’m gonna give a shout out to some of the attorneys that I work with Igor Shapiro, if you’re listening to this, thank you for everything that we’ve worked on together. Tell Linder saying, just Shawn Multani, Nicole Fisher, all these attorneys that I’ve worked with Cole Douglas, I could go on and on and on. But, but we’re a network of attorneys that all have the same goal. And that’s to maximise the value of these clients claims, and do what we can to take the money from the insurance companies and give it to our clients. So if you’re listening to this and your new attorney, go out, find someone who knows how to do what you’re interested in doing and knows how to do it better than you a mentor an idol and and find out what they’re doing learn their tricks of the trade, they want to teach those things to you. They want you to emulate them and then eventually add value to what they’re doing that that you might see from the outside and so everybody wins when we’re doing that. There’s there’s a huge population of personal injury attorneys in Washington, but the more we work together, the better we all do. So understanding that it’s about collaboration, not competition. Yeah.

Robert Hanna 49:02 

I say like a broken record collaboration is domination. And we is greater than me It’s so true, right? This has been fantastic. Josh asked we said Where can our listeners go on to learn more about your career journey your firm where the best place for them to go and find your podcast feel free chat or any website links social media handles will also share them with this episode for you too. 

Joshua Brumley 49:22 

Yeah, Brumley law is the website at Brumley law firm at Iron mind dot podcast on Instagram and social media. Iron mind For the people interested in that you can listen to the podcast on YouTube and Spotify and all the major podcast channels so give it a shout give it a listen. I’m super approachable if you direct message any of the social media channels you’re gonna get through right to me so if you have questions or want to learn more about the personal injury process in Washington hit me up. 

Robert Hanna 49:58 

There you have it, folks, as Let’s say Josh really really enjoyed today it’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show wishing you lots of continued success with your firm career and wider pursuits and all the good work you’re doing for the communities but now from all of us on Lee’s being podcast over and out.

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