Rapper and Lawyer: How You Can Practice Law, Follow Your Passions and Make Partner – S5E15

00:03 Robert Hanna:

Welcome to the Legally Speaking Podcast. I’m your host Rob Hanna. This week I’m delighted to be joined by Nick Eziefula is a partner at one of the UK leading media and entertainment law firms. Simkins LLP. Nick specializes in commercial and intellectual property. Nick is passionate about music. And as an artist himself, Nick has released several albums touring internationally. Alongside this Nick also works in technology, providing advice on legal commercial on software, licensing, ecommerce, as well as data protection. So a very, very warm welcome, Nick!

00:41 Nick Eziefula:

Thank you very much. It’s good to be here.

00:43 Robert Hanna:

It’s an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. And before we dive into all your amazing projects and experiences to date, we do have a customer icebreaker question here on the legally speaking podcast, which is on a scale of one to 1010 being very real, what would you rate the hit TV series Suits? In terms of reality?

01:04 Nick Eziefula:

I’m going to have to be really honest here and partly duck this question because I, I actually avoid legal TV shows deliberately most of the time, so I can’t rate suits. I’ve never seen it. However, the one exception is the spin off from Breaking Bad Better Call Saul, which I absolutely love. So I’m going to write that instead. And rate the authenticity of it, I’m going to give it at least an eight, I think, because it’s a fantastic show. There we go. I love that. 

01:32 Robert Hanna:

Love the fact that normally people say I haven’t seen it, I can’t give it anything. And we just move on. But the fact you’ve then brought in another show and given it a higher rating. We’re all for that on the leading podcast. So thank you, Nick. But we must move swiftly on because there’s a lot we need to get through today. But we like to start at the very beginning. So would you like to tell us a bit about your background and how you started your legal journey?

01:53 Nick Eziefula:

Yeah, sure. So the very first bit of legal work experience I had was something that I arranged in a music litigation firm. And that was something that I did off the back of contacts I’ve had from making music. So I’ve had a career as a rapper making hip hop music and through contacts I made in that I’ve got some experience in a music litigation firm. After that, I applied for vacation schemes at several bigger commercial firms, ended up being offered a training contract to all of them actually chose to work at Olswang where I did my training had a fantastic experience there. And I qualified into their Media Communications and Technology Department, which is kind of the flagship department of that firm at the time. And was in that department for a couple of years before moving to Simkins, my current firm, to specialize more in entertainment, industry, work, entertainment, and media industry work. And I’ve been at Simkins ever since I’m not gonna tell you how many years because I don’t like to make clear how old I am. But I’ve been here a while and I’m very happy.

03:03 Robert Hanna:

Well, and you’ve done tremendously well, it has to said, you know, you’ve achieved a lot. And you are now a partner with Simkins. As you mentioned, your current firm, which is one of the UK is leading media and entertainment law firms across a broad range of clients that you advise, but, you know, this could advise or include rather high profile artists, producers, songwriters, labels, publishers, managers sounds like the dream job. So what does a typical day look like for you?

03:31 Nick Eziefula:

It certainly is my dream job. But you often find that the reality is not quite the same as the dream that you anticipated. So it’s not all glamour, I’m going to be honest, there’s, there’s, there’s plenty of paper pushing as there would be for any solicitor. But you know, typical example. Today, I’m speaking with an artist who who’s looking at doing a new record deal. I’m also looking at a possible acquisition of a music publishing company with a different client. So doing those kinds of things. I also work a lot with companies in the advertising space. So work for a lot of ad agencies. And I’m also advising a tech startup, I guess you would call it. It’s an NFT focused tech business. And I’m helping them with their launch and their strategy. So quite varied. And I’m very fortunate to have a varied and interesting practice.

04:31 Robert Hanna:

Yeah, and it sounds fascinating in that you mentioned NF T’s as well. That’s something I’m super passionate about and sort of in process of launching my own this year. And I think it’s just an emerging space. And you talked a lot about, you know, the start of your career. You train with those Wang and you have a background in the technology sector. You know, you provide a lot of legal and commercial advice, you know, on the lights of development apps, websites, software, licensing, data-protection. Could you tell us a little bit more about what that all involves?

04:58 Nick Eziefula:

Yeah, sure. So I mean, we really are experts in commercial law and intellectual property. And there are lots of different sectors in which that comes into play and in the tech space, you know, we help those that develop and build technologies to bring the technology to mark it in the right way to do transactions to scale up their business, so to take investment, for example, and also with managing their relationships with their consumers. So all of the kind of consumer facing legal terms, etc., we can help with all of that. So it’s quite a broad range of work we do with people in that sector.

05:42 Robert Hanna:

Yeah. And it’s fascinating, a lot of the work that you do, and we’ve had a range of guests come on the show, we’ve had international DJs turn partners that have started their careers. But you know, you, Nick, are a true artists, you’ve released several albums, in addition to touring internationally, you know, what are your experiences? Like? 

06:02 Nick Eziefula:

They’re, you know, all sorts of experiences. I must say, I think I’m the only rapper slash lawyer in the world. I don’t think I’ve come across another one. I, I’m quite, I’m quite pleased, and you weren’t you interview lawyers all the time, you would probably be the guy to ask. So yeah, it’s an unusual situation. But I just, I’m just passionate about music, particularly hip hop is what I kind of grew up on as a teenager. And I’d love to this day, and it got me into all sorts of other styles and sounds of music. And I’ve had great experiences doing that, you know, I’ve worked with some of my heroes, musically, you know, I’ve traveled around the world. And balancing it with what I do as a lawyer has always been my path. It’s been quite difficult because I began my journey as a lawyer studying at the same time as I was beginning to release music. So I did my first album when I was at law school, did my second one when I was a trainee, and I did my third one, not long before I made partner and in my firm, so it’s always been something I proceed at the same time. And that can be tricky. I remember one particular moment where I was asked to do a couple of shows in Japan. I’m based in London, and I was asked to do a couple of shows in Japan. And I just couldn’t say no, because I’ve never been to Japan, and it was going to be an exciting experience. So I ended up taking, I think I took a Friday off work, flew out to Japan, did two shows out there and then was back at the office in London on Monday by I think but by lunchtime or so severely jet lagged, but also, you know, absolutely thrilled to be able to say I’ve had some interesting experiences with this.

07:55 Robert Hanna:

Whereabouts in Japan did you perform?

07:57 Nick Eziefula:

Tokyo and Osaka so we went on the bullet train in between them as well. If I’m honest with you, it’s a bit of a blur because I literally didn’t sleep for the whole the whole couple of days as you can imagine. But it was super exciting.

08:11 Robert Hanna:

So your Japan trip sounds similar to mine in the sense that I’ve only been Japan been to Japan for less than 72 hours. I went for the Rugby World Cup. It was a spontaneous when we’d beat the All Blacks and we were playing South Africa in the final thought I can’t miss this. Jumped on the flight took the Friday off the work when the jet lagged came back. Of course we lost so I had one night out sort of the head Tokyo and flew back. So a lot of people say to me, Well, what’s it like in Japan, you know, Tokyo everything. I really don’t have any idea.

08:44 Nick Eziefula:

But I’m pretty sure I managed it in my short space of time, they’re experienced a mini earthquake, like little tremor. So I saw Mount Fuji from the bullet train. And it was cherry blossom season. So beautiful cherry blossom. I remember thinking I’ve had quite a lot of the kind of quintessential Japanese visit experiences, but they just were in an absolute blur because it was in the space of a few hours. But it was a wonderful trip.

09:11 Robert Hanna:

Yeah. And you mentioned heroes, you know, a lot of people you know, you always say if you meet your heroes, you love to be disappointed. But you know, you’ve performed and you’ve met your heroes, who are some of them and you know, what was that experience like?

09:22 Nick Eziefula:

Okay, so I’m going to get quite deep hip hop here. So bear with me, for anyone who doesn’t know enough what I’m talking about. But I grew up on 90s New York hip hop, mainly also UK. And there’s a group called the Wu Tang Clan who are kind of a, you know, groundbreaking global sensation in the hip hop world and I made a record with one of the members of the Wu Tang Clan. I also made a record with guru from a group called Gangster. He also did a series of albums called Jasmine tears where he collaborated with soul and jazz and other artists. And these are people that you know, I looked up to you know, real heroes of mine musically, and to meet them and then end up actually working with them was amazing. And I’ve done support slots where I’ve been performing at gigs with Della Sol, Cypress Hill. Even Kanye West, actually, I was on a tour with Kanye West in Australia once. So extraordinary experiences working with all sorts of big artists or kind of rubbing shoulders with them. And it’s, it’s a real thrill.

10:28 Robert Hanna:

Yeah, I mean, huge artists. I mean, some of my favorites. Yeah, you met this take me back to my university days, and a lot of my VSB friends who don’t listen to legalese, even podcast, probably well, we listened to this particular episode. So it’s not super, super cool. And that leads nicely on because your stage name is Essa. And you released the single core justice in 2020, discussing processing thoughts and feelings on George Floyd, you looked at it from the perspective of a lawyer and a black man, what was the significance of this? And did you have a message you particularly wanted to convey?

11:06 Nick Eziefula:

Yeah, well, I mean, the song came about, because during those days and weeks following the murder of George Floyd, for me, like, like for many people, you know, from the black community, it was just a very emotionally difficult period. And I had all sorts of thoughts and feelings, based on my black experience, you know, wish may not be the same as everybody else’s, but we all experience it in our own ways. And I had so much in my heart and in my mind, and just didn’t quite know what to do with myself. And normally, for me, whenever I’ve got a lot of feeling, or a lot of thought, I write, it’s, it’s, it’s almost like self-therapy. For me, it’s very cathartic. And I don’t always put the product of what I write out there, but often I do, it’s kind of part of part of how I exist and how I cope with life. So I just started trying to jot down some of my thoughts and feelings about this huge, the significant event, and then all the other similar events and what it meant. And in particular, I looked at it, you know, as someone who is a lawyer with legal training, and I remember at, at university, you know, learning about the McPherson report, and the murder of Steven Lawrence and issues of systemic racism within the Metropolitan Police. And, you know, I touched upon those sorts of issues in the song and to be honest, the best way for me to summit, I can’t sum it up neatly, because partly because there’s such a depth of feeling behind it, that it’s even quite hard for me to talk about it if I’m honest. But what I what I would say is, people go and listen to the song, because that’s where I tried to really express how I thought and felt about it. And by the way, that is not a sort of commercial plug the song is a charity record, every penny made off of it goes towards charities that support access to justice for black people in, in marginalized communities. So, you know, I’m not saying that to try and get any, any money out of it for me or any, any, any whatever, it’s not a shameless plug. It’s actually you know, a heartfelt plug if that makes sense.

13:30 Robert Hanna:

And we jolly well will plug it here on the Legally Speaking Podcast because it is you know, such a wonderful charity and very much needed so absolutely. Please everyone, make sure you do go and check that out because it is all for a good cause and it’s great artistic work as well. Time for a quick break from the show. Are you a legal aid practitioner in England and Wales specializing in civil or criminal legal aid matters? If you are this message is for you. As a legal aid solicitor, you don’t have time to waste on legal aid case management software that doesn’t work to your needs. That’s why Clio has developed a quicker, more accurate and affordable solution. A legal aid solicitors in England and Wales. It could save you hours in your month, particularly when it comes to end of month invoicing and claims to the legal aid agency. To see how it all works. Visit clio.com/uk/pactice-areas/legal-aid/. Now back to the show. Nick, you are part then as an extension of that power up an organization which emerged following the murder of George Floyd. The organization is aimed at boosting careers of black creators. Can you explain a little bit more about this and how did you join and what does it mean being a member to you?

15:00 Nick Eziefula:

So it came about following George flows murder a lot of industries, a lot of companies within the creative sector. And beyond made shows of solidarity, they, they would put out messages saying that they stand with the black community, etc. And within the music industry in particular, there was a plan for people to post black squares on their social media profiles, just as a show of solidarity. And several people felt that was not enough, you know, it’s good, good that everyone was focusing on these issues and had a desire for solidarity. But it seemed like a time for action. And an opportunity actually, for action, with a bit of momentum behind doing something to make a positive change. And that’s the context in which power up was born. So Ben winter, who at the time was at the PRS Foundation, worked with the PRS foundation to set this up. And it’s a program that supports not just creators, but also professionals, industry professionals. So in the first year of it, and by the way, it’s going to run for 10 years. So it’s going to going to really support the growth of, of black talent within the music sector for a long period of time. And in the first year, they’ve taken 40 people in and we receive training, we receive mentorship, networking, opportunities, guidance, and funding as well, for particular projects, to just give our careers a boost. And I’m the only lawyer who’s involved in this this first year. But alongside me, there are artists, writers, producers, managers, label owners, all sorts of vet people in the event sector NFT, specialists, all sort. And the idea is for everybody to get a boost to their career. And it’s aimed not at people who are at the entry level of their career, but people who are hitting that glass ceiling. That’s what the whole thing is about the idea that for black people in the music business, there’s often been this feeling of this kind of invisible glass ceiling, where your ability to grow and thrive is somehow limited in ways that sometimes hard to put your finger on, or sometimes absolutely blatant in your face. But the idea is to smash through that glass ceiling so that people can become, you know, the leaders of the music industry of tomorrow. Yeah,

17:45 Robert Hanna:

And such, you know, great insights, and congratulations on being the first again 100 something and you know, all the meaningful work that’s behind that. And you have previously mentioned, you are passionate about the black music space and helping others to benefit. Why are you so eager to promote the black music industry?

18:04 Nick Eziefula:

Well, I love black music, it’s just, am a nerd. And I’m a black music nerd. I guess I love hip hop, like I said, but if you love hip hop, it actually isn’t, is a gateway into all sorts of other styles and sounds of music, and a lot of black music far beyond black music as well. But still, and you know, with my African roots and heritage, it’s important to me. And I’ve, I’ve had the, the privilege of a great education and a lot of opportunities to pursue some of my dreams. And, and for me, you know, now being a lawyer, and you know, really understanding this space and having some of the skills and knowledge to be able to help people, it’s quite important to me that I help our community. So there, there are all sorts of people I work with, you know, in an informal capacity as well, where I just give them helpful bits of guidance and just help to kind of show them the right way and point them in the right direction or, or connect them with other people to help them pursue their careers. And I do that within the Power Up program, and I do it beyond. So it’s important and it’s natural, and it’s the way things should be we should all help each other.

19:25 Robert Hanna:

Absolutely. I’m all for you know, lifting others up and supporting one another and community and it’s great that you’re doing such a phenomenal job of that. So back to your albums. When you did your last album, you know, an independent label put the album out, you wrote the contract for this. So how did you utilize your experiences of being a lawyer and specializing in intellectual property to assist you?

19:50 Nick Eziefula:

It was funny, really, you know, the label I’ve worked with for that album and a few other releases to including the Justice single that we mentioned it run by a wonderful guy called Ollie who also works at band-camp. And we’ve been friends for many years. And we talked about maybe working on a project him releasing some of my music through his label. And when it finally got to that stage, and we sort of figured out the plans for it, of course, the normal next stage is to put it in a contract. And instead of him sending me his standard contract, he’s like, Nick, obviously, you should, you should write the contract for this. Rather than send me something and me have to, you know, go through it. So it was weird. But um, but it was, it was great. And it’s nice to be able to, to bring together the sort of two different paths that I’ve walked and where they crossover. It’s a beautiful thing. It is a beautiful thing.

20:43 Robert Hanna:

And you’ve been so successful in blending the two, obviously, your legal career and your artistic career, would you ever go into performing full time?

20:57 Nick Eziefula:

Some people asked me whether I’d rather be a lawyer working in an office or a superstar rapper. And to me, that is a dumb question. I’d obviously love No offense, I’d love to be a superstar. But it didn’t quite go as far as that for me, you know. And actually, I think that’s partly because I never wanted it to go that far. You know, to that extent, perhaps, because I’ve always had the ambition to become a lawyer. And there’s something about being a lawyer, that’s very important to me, I’m the first lawyer in my family. And not the last, my brother is a lawyer as well. And, you know, there’s something about that, that really, that was really important to me, especially, and I can’t articulate it very clearly. But especially with my African heritage, there’s something about it that was really important. So I wouldn’t really want to give it up in that way. And never really did, you know, I just always felt I could try and pursue both to the, to the most, to the fullest extent, I could. Now obviously, we’ve talked a bit about some of the successes and the highlights of all of that. There’s also the opposite, there’s there are times when I’ve not been able to go on a tour for a couple of months, because I can’t take two months off my, my job and then come straight back to it in the most straightforward way. I remember being a trainee, actually, in being offered a tour with a group called Jurassic five, and I was going to go across Europe with all of them. So well, I don’t get a couple of months of holiday, I want to take all my holiday. And so it’s tricky to juggle things. And it can be stressful, but it’s rewarding. And in truth, I do less as a musician now than I used to, as my job as a lawyer has become more and more demanding in a way but also just I’ve been more involved as more active as a lawyer, and I’m a father, I have three children. So juggling all these things together is a bit of a challenge. But that’s, that’s the path I’ve gone down. And you know, I love the balance of, you know, when I when I might be getting a little bit bogged down in some of the technicalities of legal work, it’s nice to take a short break and just do some creative writing you know, use left brain right brain I forget which one is which, but it’s nice to try and nice to try and use both sides, you know, and to balance things out.

23:30 Robert Hanna:

Absolutely. And you know, as cool dad awards go, you know, a top a top lawyer in the entertainment media space through to you know, rapper artists, that pretty cool. You know, there’s not many people that can say that dance done that right, particularly some of the artists you’ve done, so you must be immensely proud.

23:47 Nick Eziefula:

I am proud, I appreciate that. But you know, the cool dad thing, you know, asked my son and he would never agree.

23:55 Robert Hanna:

This is true. This is true. And you obviously mentioned the first lawyer in connection to power up do you actually do any legal work for them or anything associated from that from a legal capacity.

24:06 Nick Eziefula:

So part of what I do with power up is to provide legal training to the other participants. So we’ve been doing a number of kind of master-class sessions where I’ll go through different aspects of the industry and the legal issues and trying to give people a steer on those. As well as that in a more kind of ad hoc way. I’ve been working with several of the other power-up participants to just give them give them a steer, give them give them a bit of a sounding post really on legal issues just to help them figure things out. And that’s actually grown into a fully-fledged lawyer client relationship with several of them. So now actually, the lawyer officially for several of the people in the pirate community as well. So that that’s part of what my legal relationship with our app is,

24:56 Robert Hanna:

I guess. Yeah, and thanks again for sharing that. So you know what Next minute, you’ve already done so much. But do you plan to keep on making music, you know, just give us a bit of a taste into the future.

25:09 Nick Eziefula:

So I write almost every day, literally. And I’ve got a lot of unreleased material and this material I’m working on right now. So I desperately want to put more material out there. And I’ve actually got two, maybe even three album projects that I’m in the midst of working on. But it takes time to get those completed. And with all of my life as a lawyer and a father as well, I struggled to have the output that I used to have when I was a bit more focused on the music. But having said that, I’m featuring on an album by a producer called farmer G used to be in a hip hop group called Task Force to the kind of pioneering UK hip hop group. He’s got a new album coming out, I think, April this year, it’s probably the next release that I’m on. And we shot a music video for that a few months ago. So that’s the next release that’s coming soon. Look out for that. And hopefully, shortly after that, some more releases by me. Solo releases by me as well.

26:08 Robert Hanna:

Yeah, exciting times. I can’t wait, I’m going to be following eagerly, that there’s a real good message in the discussion we’ve had today. Because you have been so successful and managing to balance a passion of obviously, you know, you followed your music, you’re artistic, but you’ve also balanced a highly successful career. And we talk about entertaining educational inspiring content on the show, this definitely epitomizes that, you know, what tips would you give to people in terms of how you have managed that balance? Because you mentioned your father, you’ve mentioned you’ve got other things on the go, you know, what are some of the practical things you do to make the balance work?

26:43 Nick Eziefula:

I think it works for me, because of the genuine interest, I’ve got an area I work in. So sometimes I wish that my interest was in an offshore tax law, I remember having a chat with a lawyer in the in the Bahamas, or Bermuda somewhere. And he was like, how’s work today, Nick, I’m on the beach, wearing shorts. And I’m probably going to stop at two o’clock to eat some lobster, and go back to my mansion. And sometimes I think, I wish I’d have chosen to be a lawyer in that kind of space. But I chose to do what I do. Because I love music. And I love the entertainment industry. And it’s something I care about, and I’m interested in naturally interested in. So I’m doing business development and networking on an in a natural way the people I want to connect with because I want to ask them about what they’re doing in the space and want to interact with them, because that’s what I’m into. And that makes it easier to to, to make more of it. And I think also, the two different pursuits, I’ve got making music and in working as a lawyer in this space, you know, they overlap more and more these days. And I guess I’ve focused in on that, to try and try and make sure that, you know, I’m pushing in the same direction rather than, you know, pulling in different directions. And, you know, good example of that is the manager, my first manager, my only manager actually is, is someone I used to work with, many years ago, and I still work with him to this day. But instead of him being the manager and me being the artist, he’s a manager of other artists, and I’m the lawyer that works for him or for them. And we do we do deals together and stuff. And, you know, it’s just it just shows that it’s really about finding your lane. And sticking with it and trying to be you know, authentic to yourself. And it builds value. And Patience is important in that because it takes time to build that up. But over time focusing on this, I’ve really managed to make a great career out of it and a good life from it, which I’m very thankful for.

28:51 Robert Hanna:

Yeah, no and thoroughly well, well deserved. Nick, it has to be said, and perhaps more specifically, what advice would you give to our listeners interested in entertainment and media law or even about the technology sector?

29:06 Nick Eziefula:

Well, for people that are aspiring lawyers within that space and interested in getting into those areas of work, one of the tips I would say is focus on the realities of those businesses and what makes those businesses work. Rather than getting too caught up in I guess the sort of the glamorous aspects of it. A lot of people say I’d love to be a music lawyer or whatever an advertising lawyer because I think those industries are kind of exciting and buzzy, and they are, but there’s also plenty of hard graft and, you know, you know, a 90 page contract is a 90 page contract and it can be somewhat dry sometimes going through that with a fine tooth comb, whether it’s to do with exciting music industry project or something that you might find a little more bland. So you have to really focus on the realities of it and appreciate and understand and enjoy the technical aspects of those industries and the ways in which they work to really operate in them in the right way. So that’s my tip be really into it don’t be superficially into it.

30:18 Robert Hanna:

So Nick, you did mention you obviously joined Simkins what was important for you when choosing to make that move to the next firm and how you could combine both your passions?

30:30 Nick Eziefula:

Well, I wanted to work at a firm where I’d get to do the kinds of work that I really had always dreamed to doing. So really hands on entertainment industry work working with creative people, and with the business people behind them. And that’s something that we do every day at Simkins. But I wanted to work somewhere with really talented lawyers with a high level of technical skill, so that I could learn and develop and learn from them. And I also wanted to work amongst people who would appreciate the other sides of what I do my creativity, what I do as a musician or that and Simpkins ticked all of those boxes, one of the people that was interviewing me has is my fellow partner, and he’s got several mobile awards, I think, and other awards for production and work he’s done in the music industry, as a creative. I’ve seen our Managing Partner play the piano, and he’s, he’s, he’s excellent at that. And several others as well, there used to be a USB affirm band, actually, that would play at some of our events and things. So plenty of people who are really creative in their own right. And that’s, that’s something that, you know, showed to me that what I do in the creative space would be appreciated, and I’d be valued for who I am. And my other pursuits are an asset to the firm rather than something that would detract from what I do as a lawyer. And so that’s been great at Simkins. That’s something that we you know, I now I now handle part of the recruitment process at the firm, you know, I do a lot of work with our trainee recruitment, for example. And we do value the other experiences people have had, by the way, you don’t have to be like, a singer or a guitarist to get a job. That’s it, because you don’t have to have any of those other pursuits. But we do appreciate people from different walks of life and who have different skill sets. And we consider everybody on their merits, you know, so saying that that’s really important to us at the firm.

32:34 Robert Hanna:

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think it’s a phenomenal firm for people, particularly if you are interested in, you know, the entertainment and media space, because of the quality of work. And the fact that, you know, you do allow that balance for people, you know, to come in and follow their passions and support that I think it’s really important. People really think about what they want from that career inside and maybe outside of the law, but I would highly recommend a firm like Simpkins if people were thinking of, you know, particularly you have those passions, checking them out. Absolutely. You know, we’ve talked a lot today and absolutely, rightly so around power up, and I’m sure this would have inspired a lot of people. So how can people get involved? And is there a deadline for potentially trying to get involved?

33:15 Nick Eziefula:

Yeah, so this second year of power up, is launching. And it’s open for applications right now, up until the 17th of February. And you can go to the PRS Foundation website, if you search PRs foundation power up search that you’ll get there. And this is open to black people, including people like me who are of mixed heritage, operating in the music industry, whether you’re a creative, or you’re an instrument industry professional of some sort. And this is a potential way of boosting your career. And it’s been a real boost for my career. And for the rest of the cohort I work with there. And you know, do look into it if that if that if you fit that description.

33:59 Robert Hanna:

Yeah, no. And I would encourage people most definitely to do that. And if people then Nick, before we look to wrap up, want to follow you, or get in touch with anything we discussed today, I suspect there might be quite a few. What’s the best way for them to contact you feel free to shout out any social media or web links, we’ll also make sure we share them with this episode for you too.

34:21 Nick Eziefula:

So if you’re interested in what I do, as a musician, you could easiest place to go to my Instagram, which is at Essa hip hop. So Hip Hop Essa hip hop. And if you want to check out what I do as a lawyer, may as well start with my Instagram, my other Instagram as well which is at Nick Eziefula. Nick, E Z I E F U L A asked me, so you can find me on either of those profiles, and they’ll all lead towards me and you’ll find all the stuff that I do there.

34:50 Robert Hanna:

Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Nick. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation today. It’s been a real pleasure having you on the show from all of us. On the Legally Speaking Podcast wishing you tons of continued success not that you need it with your career and all your future pursuits, but for now over and out this week’s review comes from MadiPars five stars love it. Highly recommend Madi we really appreciate your kind words simplicity at its finest. We really appreciate you. Thanks so much once again.