Get an inside look at the London International Disputes Week (LIDW) with this week’s Legally Speaking Podcast guests, Michael Laming and Laura Coad. Michael is the  

Director of Forensic Accounting and Commercial Damages at HKA, while Laura is an Associate at Keidan Harrison LLP, but both are members of the LIDW. They joined us this week to share their insights and passion for the event, as well as some updates about key speakers and sessions at this year’s event.  

𝐒𝐨, 𝐰𝐡𝐲 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐛𝐞 𝐥𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐢𝐧? 

You can catch Rob, Michael and Laura talking about:  

• The 2024 London International Disputes Week event 
• Michael and Laura’s professional backgrounds  
• Benefits of attending for young or young-at-heart lawyers 
• The latest changes to dispute resolution 

• Career advice for legal dispute specialists  

Transcript

Robert Hanna 00:00 

Welcome to the legally speaking podcast. Welcome to the legally speaking podcast. I’m your host Rob Hanna. This week I’m delighted to be joined by the wonderful Michael naming and Laura code Michael is the director of forensic accounting and commercial damages. Hka a chartered accountant Mark Michaels background as an audit and forensic accounting. Michael is regarded as a financial expert with experience in litigation, commercial arbitration and investment treating arbitration proceedings. Laura is an associate at Kenan Harrison specialising in dispute resolution, Laura has expertise in handling commercial civil fraud, banking and insolvency disputes in the High Court. She also has experience in arbitration and alternative dispute resolution methods. Michael and law are members of the London international disputes week and young and young at heart a forward thinking and inclusive forum exploring the future of international dispute resolution. So with that both said a very warm welcome to Michael and Laura. Oh, it’s great to have you both on the show and super excited to dive into all your amazing projects, experiences, and what are you getting up to for the legal community. But before that, we do have a customary icebreaker question here on the legally speaking podcast, which is on a scale of one to 1010 being very real, what would you rate the hit TV series suits? In terms it’s reality of the law? If you’ve seen it coming to you first, Laura. 

Laura Coad 01:32 

So I’m gonna be honest, I’ve only seen about one suits episode over the road up saying that, but yeah, I kind of didn’t get into it as much as I thought I would. So from what I’ve seen, I’d go around a three, but I can’t really say much more than that. Fair enough. 

Robert Hanna 01:51 

Three is your answer. And Michael, if you’ve seen it, what would you give it? 

Michael Laming 01:55 

Yeah, no, I have seen it. I think I stopped watching when, when they’re going left. I would on the basis purely on the basis that I don’t remember a single expert being given enough Limelight in seats, as I think there weren’t it, I’d give it a seven. Fair enough. 

Robert Hanna 02:10 

And with the law of averages that comes out as a five and that’s what I’ve also given the show before in the past. So with that we can move swiftly on to talk both about your incredible backgrounds and what you’re doing for the legal community. So to begin with, would you mind telling our listeners about your sort of career journeys and backgrounds? Michael, if you could go first and then over to you, Laura? 

Michael Laming 02:29 

Yeah, absolutely. So I’m a trained chartered accountant I qualified with with Ernst and Young in London, moved my my time in audit for a couple of years moved into the forensics department where I sort of got my first taste of some disputes investigations work. Spent a couple of years there then moved into Haman eyelet disputes advisory boutique in London, and spent three great years there very steep learning curve, but of invaluable experiences learning from some of the best got a call from a recruiter one day having been going out with a Spanish woman for a couple of years. And just off the cuff said, you know, not interested, but if you haven’t heard anything in Spain, let me know. few phone calls later. A few interviews later was senior manager anywise forensics practice in Madrid, trying to desperately learn Spanish to keep up spent some some good time there. The idea was to sort of push pushing slash arbitration expert services in that in that world, and then got a phone call from HK at the end of 2020, sorry, 2020 rather, and they were building out their forensic accounting commercial damages practice in London, so came back. Tough, tough to leave Madrid, spent a year in London post Brexit post COVID The pain of trying to finish a flat when nobody would deliver to you because of those two was enough to offer a year we decided we wanted to go back to Spain. So had some discussions internally in HK and then agreed that I’d moved back out to Madrid with a view of pushing on the Spain and and markets have now been out here for a couple of years. And in terms of Elijah, who initially got involved through Colin Johnson, a partner, HK, and a board member of fellows W who basically got me got me involved in the accounting with the promise that there would be good things to come if you know got got stuck in with the numbers and did that did that work? And unnecessarily what happened Strategy Group meeting one day, interested in exploring some more opportunities for the community and said, you know, you’re the You’re the youngest in the room. Here you go. And that that was a couple of years ago and since then, we’ve just been really pushing on with the concept. 

Robert Hanna 04:31 

Yeah, no, absolutely. I can’t wait to talk more about that a little bit later on as well. And yeah, very jealous about the Madrid thing being in the Northwest as we speak in sort of, you know, the slightly less attractive climates but there we go. Laura, we’d love to come to you and get a bit of an overview of your background and career journey. Yes, 

Laura Coad 04:49 

I was gonna say my journey as an exotic is getting getting so I am studied law at university and then did my LPC at law. was school and then at that time I didn’t get a training contract. I didn’t have a contract contracts which some people might see as a risk, you know, doing the LPC and things like that. So I was self funded the LPC and then I, I wanted to continue on that journey. So I managed to get a paralegal role at a regional law firm in half a chair as leading regional law firm. And I spent two years being a paralegal there kind of, you know, with the aim of trying to get training contracts, so really push myself to be the best that occurred. I was a paralegal in the dispute resolution department. And I really, really enjoyed being that department, kind of the contentious side of things. And then I was lucky enough to get a training contract at that firm after a very strenuous assessment day where I actually did a presentation on tap dancing, we had to do a presentation about something that interests you. And at the time. It did well, because I managed to get the training contract. So that was a good thing. And then, yeah, so I did an 18 month training contract because I’d done my paralegal experience. So I did Seaton dispute resolution, I also did a scene private client, but wasn’t so interested in in that compared to the Dr. Kind of experience, it wasn’t kind of for me, I’m more of a, which is the contentious side of things. I think it fits my personality, but more rid of that kind of will. And then yeah, so I after 18 months, qualified into the dispute resolution department at that same firm, working very closely with Luke Harrison, who is co chair of Li dw, he was the managing partner of the dispute resolution department at that time. I was associated for about two years, and then in about February 2020. So just before COVID, Luke kind of dropped the bombshell that he would be leaving the firm, and setting up a new firm with Mark Eden from cook young Caden at the time, and he carried on it was bombshells bit shocked. And then he asked me if I wanted to join him. And at the time, I had been thinking, you know, you know, thinking about how I would progress my career, and what I really wanted to do. And what I really wanted to do was make that step into London could have been at regional firm, it’s kind of looking into lending like, oh, that’s kind of where we want to be, that’s where, you know, you know, the value of the cases is bit more exciting, you just, I just, that was always my aim. So I kind of I thought about it for a little bit, but I always knew it was going to be a great opportunity for me. So I was just like, right, gotta gonna step on that, that waggon with him, see how it goes. So may 2020, Keaton Harrison was born, which was, yes, in COVID. In the middle of COVID. But you know, I’ve spoken about this quite a lot to people. And I’ve, you know, it actually worked to our benefit, because we didn’t, obviously have systems that we need to move across and kind of try and move stuff across. We were just starting again, from a fresh, so we went with the COVID times and that kind of, well, new world, we started in the new world. So there wasn’t like you had a chance to, you know, work in a new way. We were starting in that way. And it was always, we’re going to be kind of doing three days in the office. Anyway, that was kind of what the thought process was before. So we were kind of moving in that direction. So yeah, so now so I was the first associate, so the OG associate. So it was me, and Mark, the three of us right at the beginning, and and now and then we’ve just been, it’s been, well, we’re coming out to our fourth birthday. So it’s been it’s only a it’s been a very stressful journey. I mean, I was, there was nothing in place, you don’t realise you take a lot of things for granted, when you you know, go to a law firm, all that all the basic stuff, you know, practice management systems and HR accounts, we didn’t really have any of that. So we are here to help build on that, which is really kind of great experience. Because I’m, obviously get there anywhere, anywhere else, you know, create helping to create a new boutique law firm. So you have always late to where a team of about 14 Six associates, three partners, so we’re always growing. So yeah, it’s been up and down. But it’s been an Yeah, an incredible experience. So, yeah. 

Robert Hanna 09:24 

And so many good messages in there, particularly, you know, in terms of the paralegal experience from you know, pursuing, you know, and not giving up that sort of hope of getting the training contract. And then like you say, you know, I always say, you know, the relationships are important. You obviously built a relationship with Luke, and then you know, you had trust there. And then you took a new opportunity, and you didn’t look at it from a complete risk perspective on joining a startup and you saw all these great new skills that you’ve acquired along the way of shaping a new, exciting firm, and you know, you’re not necessarily trying to move a juggernaut around, you can be a little bit more nimble, entrepreneurial, and all of that good stuff. So, I love that you’ve both touched on the LI dw and yeah, Yeah, but let’s talk about a little bit more. Because Michael, your your committee members, can you tell us a little bit more about about your roles and what they’re both about? Yeah, 

Michael Laming 10:09 

absolutely. So the the committee was basically came about just we, we wanted to do a social event in the first day CW coming out of COVID, which was a hybrid event. And it was just figuring out how we do that, and how many hands on deck we needed. And so basically, email went out saying, Are you interested? Please come and give us a handle on this. So I think we had about five or six members in our first year, and we’re now up to 10, I believe. And I’ll try and pronounce the names but I the last time we had a social event, I spent about half an hour in the bathroom distributing in America there’s a couple of more difficult but but we’re now we now have a great team which consists of this penned up because associate Pinsent Masons. Laura sleeves in USA associate steams Bolton Lucia visa Cova from DLA will crossly and Julia chip in scope Houska. The Casca Julia chip and sceptic elsker, as you can see which one is the tricky one, Ed K, Senior Director at FTI, Jennifer Carney at HK senior managing consultant, Isabelle Bertram, who’s head of BD and marketing or active chambers, and then Laura myself. It’s a great team. So it’s a combination of experts and legal practitioners, which really gives us quite good coverage. And also sort of different perspectives when it comes to organising events and think about what we want to do, you know, we’re really fortunate, we’ve got a lot of flexibility in sort of choosing our path and the path we want to take. So it really helps having that, you know, those different perspectives. We also do, I should mention that we’ve got an events team behind for TMB events. We’ve got to get help from Sir Austin and Grace Longstaff, who, you know, do a lot of the heavy lifting that we too often take credit for. But yeah, so again, it’s just really helpful having them on board and sort of herding, herding sheep at times. Yeah, no, 

Robert Hanna 12:04 

absolutely. And it’s a great team effort, isn’t it? And that’s why I love collaborating and love bringing these minds together. Laura, for those who might be less familiar or may not know, could you explain what the LI dw is, and just give us a bit more of a sort of in depth understanding? 

Laura Coad 12:20 

Yeah, so LRD w is, is an international annual conference that explores, look to explore and contribute to the future of international dispute resolution. And the real focus on having London as a leading centre for international disputes. It’s kind of been the main focus and it comes through kind of the aim for for it LRD W yah, yah, now, yah, yah, is stands for young and young at heart. So this is one of the things that you know, people kind of often confused about, but it is literally what it says on the tin. It is for young and those that feel young and young at heart, we decided that, you know, there’s It was decided not to put anything specific on it in terms of qualification years or age limits kind of thing. It’s, you know, if someone feels that your your event would work for them, then then then more more than welcome to, to come along. So there’s no nurse, there’s no specific roles on an on it. And it’s kind of like an open committee. So yeah, we the Aiyar kind of thing kind of side of things is making a bit more, maybe a bit more fun, a bit more relaxed. You know, coming together to share ideas and drive things, but forward from a different kind of perspective and more younger practitioners perspective, just making sure that, you know, young young voices don’t get forgotten about and they’re heard as well. So I think 

Robert Hanna 13:50 

that’s really important. Yeah. And I think it’s great work that you’re, you’re doing and I know 2024 is another big year. So Michael, coming to you. When and where will the LI w be and I understand the theme for this year is uniting for global challenge and opportunity. So what’s the inspiration behind this year’s theme? Yeah, so 

Michael Laming 14:12 

as the 24th is going to take place, it starts on Monday, the third of June runs through to the Friday. The main conference, which is going to be on the Tuesday, the fourth is taking place at acuity Centre, which is the largest venue we’ve ever we’ve ever used for for our W conference, the main conference. So it sort of shows shows the ambition nicely then the Monday is international arbitration day, which is going to be co hosted by sort of three hubs which are applied in CO Covington, Burling and Cognis And then Wednesday to Friday morning are going to be member hosted events, which are going to be very effective off offices tackling all sorts of themes subjects with some really broad and distinct panels and speakers. So that’s the logistics for it and Obviously, that I’m sure the website probably does a much better job of explaining that than I’ve done. In terms of the theme itself. So the theme is, you know, I think the global challenge opportunity. And we haven’t actually discussed in in too much detail, what exactly the group inspiration is for that is for that. But from my personal perspective, I think there’s sort of two key things there. One is that, you know, we are we are in a world of increasing challenge during it’s increasingly challenging in the disputes resolution context. And in general, I mean, we’ve got geopolitical risks materialising economic risks, materialising new sectors, new geographies, new regulation, artificial intelligence, cyber space, you know, everything is creating a new challenge, and you need to be more dynamic and more, more flexible than ever to be able to deal with that and deal with it effectively. So that’s sort of, you know, we know the challenges are there, it’s no surprise, what the focus of the of the theme really is that FTW is intentionally quite broad. And it doesn’t want to be an arbitration week focus on arbitration practitioners only, not litigation, only experts only not barristers, only not technological satisfies any, it’s intentionally focused or targeted towards a very broad, broad market, which means that we can get all those voices together. And as we were saying, Before, collaborate, you know, have some thought provoking discussions and come away from the week with some things that we can actually implement to convert those challenges in the terrifying fear of the next change that’s coming around the corner into an opportunity. So that’s really I mean, that’s, that’s my perspective, at least, and hopefully, hopefully, okay, by the PR team behind. 

Robert Hanna 16:42 

Yeah, I think he gave a really good good overview, and you touched on a few bits and bobs there, which I’d like to dive in just a little bit more from from, from your side law, in terms of there are going to be a number of these events taking place. So, you know, give us an idea maybe for people who might be attending or thinking about attending, you know, some of the very technical programmes going to be available. And yeah, what they can learn from from the experience. 

Laura Coad 17:03 

Yeah, I mean, there is, I think, allows you, WN the look on the website and the programme list, there’s, there’s there is quite a few, it can be a bit daunting. It’s kind of what what do you pick? And, you know, it’s what kind of interests you but there is such a variety, maybe choose things that you haven’t really looked at before. The variety is covering various geographies and kind of sections from fraud AI, you know, sanctions ESG in an aviation dispute. So it’s quite, there’s quite a lot on there. So and they’re all you know, and there’s a lot of them are the member hosted events, so they run by law firms, and it’s they’re all very they’ve got good people doing it. There’s also panel discussions with Mrs. Justice Cockrell, in relation to disputes funding the prediction for the future for that. So going with the with the theme of Li GW, and there’s also panel discussion with Mr. Justice Henshaw on the global landscape of enforcement of judgments and awards. So it’s very interesting stuff, very broken topics. But yeah, there is quite a lot, but it you know, I would encourage people kind of have a look at the programme and kind of spend some time looking through, you know, what there is to offer? Yeah, 

Robert Hanna 18:15 

exactly. I always think you need to optimise the opportunities when it when it presents themselves, and there’s gonna be a lot on offer. So, you know, really take the time to see what’s available and make the time to go Oh, and also did a networking as well, which I think is important. So, you know, Laura, happy to get your views as well. But coming back to you, Michael, because I understand is gonna be a whole day dedicated to international arbitration as the arbitration bill is considered by the UK Parliament. So how is London a leading hub for international arbitration? And in what ways is the ally DW 2024? Looking to celebrate this specifically? Yes. 

Michael Laming 18:47 

So in terms of London as a leading a leading hub? The question probably gets asked, because there’s questions as to whether it is or whether it isn’t, I think it was one of the one of the key discussion points a couple of years ago at one of the editors. And it’s you know, I don’t think there’s any hiding the fact that there are with new geographies and new jurisdictions, there are new centres are popping up and having having success with their own USPS. But it doesn’t take away from what London has to offer. And from my perspective, again, probably one that I expect to share by by the rest of the people involved in RTW London, London has an incredible history. And with the history comes, the experience, the knowledge, the skills, the individuals who sort of operate in, in the market and, and the investment. So the the challenge for London isn’t isn’t so much, you know, or the question isn’t so much whether it is or how is it is how can it remain a leading hub, and that’s really about not becoming complacent, sort of, you know, the arbitration bill reflects that, that it’s thinking about how to how to maintain its position as a leading hub. And it’s being adaptive, it’s being flexible. It’s thinking about you know, what is change Juergen how do we how do we evolve to be best placed to remain a leading hub? In terms of why the W 24 is doing. So we’ve got this, we’ve got this full day dedicated to international arbitration on the Monday. You know, I think the fact that it’s no coincidence that it’s the first day of the week, nor that it’s a full day over four, and after a conference that is purely dedicated to international arbitration, I think that says a lot about how, how seriously, it’s taken. And the format of the day itself. So a couple of years ago, I was very fortunate to be involved in, in this new format, which essentially, is called following the sun, where we start in the east, and we make our way through regions jurisdictions towards the west towards Latin America, and just, with each with each region take a different perspective or get their different perspectives on, you know, what is London doing? Is it doing enough? Or the advantages disadvantages? How is it? How do things differ when you take the perspective of someone operating in Asia versus someone operating in the States? And it just really gives a great set of perspectives and a really interesting, interesting bunch of panellists to focus on that. And, and what the takeaways were, it’s an opportunity for us to reflect on what London’s doing, is it doing enough and you know, to implement changes as required? I think it’s probably worth mentioning, though, I didn’t know that John was going to touch on it later. But this year is it’s an incredibly ambitious objective to try and get around the world in a day. And this year, I’ve seen on the panel on the on the programme, rather than I think we end in space. I think it’s hosted by Kirkland Ellis at 430 on the Monday if I’m not mistaken. But I mean, just to show how, you know, how much we’re evolving and taking notice of, you know, spaces, spaces, something that we have to be considering and disputes relating to, to space. So you know, it’s there. So we’re not just going around the world, we are leaving the world on On Monday, the fourth of June. So see, it’s promising, 

Robert Hanna 21:49 

bigger than the world. I’m excited. I mean, with that, what are you personally looking forward to Laura, in terms of, you know, Ally, DW 24? And are there any sessions you’d really recommend people attending? Love to get your thoughts? Yeah, 

Laura Coad 22:06 

so we haven’t yet talked about the, your, your, your events, specifically. So this year, so previous previous years, we’ve just kind of done a social event for yoga. And this year, we kind of wanted to expand it, you know, you try and encourage more younger practitioners to come along to an IDW, rather than it just being kind of all partners. And you know, there’s no reason, so much reason for them to go maybe. So we thought, you know, encourage it more by having more events. So on the Tuesday, we’ve got the IR and gar live Academy workshop, which is the academic programme, so that’s on the Tuesday. And then on the Tuesday evening, we’ve got the Yaya and Ko dinner clubs where, which are being hosted by various other young committee groups. So we’ve been in contact with various young committee groups, to for them to kind of hope so that we work alongside them as well. So again, encouraging more and more people to be involved. And then on the Thursday evening, we’re joining up with law rocks at Scala for the social events. So that’s been Scala before but it’s a it’s a massive venue over like, three or four floors. It’s very, very impressive. So that’s going to be that’s going to be a big night. So. And also, I did actually see there was a running club on the Friday morning, which is quite good, something different out of everything. But I’m not sure if I’ll make it after Thursday evening. But let’s, 

Robert Hanna 23:36 

let’s see, watch this space. You know, literally, and so coming back to you, Michael, what would you say are some of the key benefits of a young lawyer being part of, you know, Ally DW? Yeah, 

Michael Laming 23:51 

I mean, I think I think the key benefits really come down to the way we’ve structured and we’ve tried to create this sort of this, this safe haven almost where where young practitioners or young heart practitioners can sort of come together in a more informal setting, and meet people who they’re not going to meet every single day. I mean, it’s been from from an expert’s perspective, a lot of our relationships are formed on the job with the respective law firms working with the end clients. But you know, there’s there’s a much broader range of professionals and professions within dispute resolution, and both LTW main conference will remain weak, and in a WTI of both give those options to sort of build your networks and the AI in particular, it’s sort of those, those early steps where, you know, the fear of walking into an intimidating conference room full of senior partners. You know, we don’t tell senior partners and allowed to come to our events. Of course, that’s not that’s not our intention, but at the same time it is, there’s a gentle nudge in the pricing in the venues, which is in the in the format. It’s a little rock’s gig, actually probably because for example, Everyone attends Lawrence gigs. But suddenly, the way we’ve focused our events is to just create something a bit different, where they can really get the benefits of setting up their own networks and creating and developing their own brand a bit. And then obviously, the LDW before I became involved in actually organising it, in the panels, the topics discussed the quality of speakers is, is excellent. And it’s one of those conferences where you go into it and you come away it bring the networking benefits aside, that you come away having some real tangible pieces of learning that you can take away and implement in your day to day which, you know, not to discredit any other any other conference, but you can’t I don’t think you could fairly say it at every every conference, and you kind of you go to thinking I’m going to network, and that’s right, I’ll show up 10 minutes before the end, and have a drink. Whereas this you know, you want to be bums on seats from the from the office. 

Robert Hanna 25:55 

Yeah. And I always like to say, you know, these sort of things are an experience as well as the overall experience isn’t it you’re not just going to this blocking out my calendar, I’ve got this event today, you want to get something from the whole experience and that’s why I like how you’ve really thought everything through in terms of what’s on offer, but also from a social as well as the business of networking and, you know, making it super accessible and giving an encouraging the next generation to feel that like you know, this isn’t an inclusive and safe space where you can come learn mastermind and you know, also just be yourself and you touched on it before. But Laura, I’d like to talk a little bit more about your special guests that will be attending the LI DW 2020 for Lady Chief Justice of England and well, Baroness Carr Bolton on the hill. What will she be addressing specifically? So 

Laura Coad 26:38 

I mean, Lita, come to the LIG Tabu conference to find that out. Yeah, so she’s an incredible speaker. But yeah, so she’ll be focusing on kind of the things we’ve been we’ve been discussing throughout this. But you know, particularly London being a global hub, and I’m kind of putting on a united front and, and stuff like that. So yeah, I advise to come to that. Yeah. 

Robert Hanna 27:07 

Yeah, exactly. And that’s the thing, right? You know, you have to be in the room to get the value of these experiences and meeting these people and learning the wisdom and soaking it all up. So talking of wisdom, we’ve also had the privilege of having Henrietta Jackson stops, who’s been a former guest on our show, before, who’s the co chair of the LI dw, who stated this year’s conference encourages discussion, debate collaboration across all aspects of dispute resolution, including the growth of mediation. So how is dispute resolution becoming more prevalent as the legal industry embraces the ever changing 21st century? We’d love to get your thoughts on this, Michael, on anything you’d like to add, Laura? Yeah, 

Michael Laming 27:44 

absolutely. I think I mean, the challenges we’ve touched on before, you know, all those challenges do, for better or for worse, often result in an increased number of disputes. And you know, traditional dispute mechanisms aren’t always the preference of all parties, which is why alternative dispute resolution, arbitration mediation, other other formats exist. So there, I mean, to put it very simply, the more complexity in the world for whatever reasons, the more disputes typically come about, and the more complex disputes, which demand more of a dispute resolution profession. So now, since it’s prevailing, because it’s almost a function of what’s happening in the world, in an ideal world contracts are performing perfectly products completed on time, it doesn’t. It’s not reality, which is why we exist. And to be completely frank, and in terms of, you know, I think, the relevance of mediation, which is I think, what Henrietta mentioned, you know, I think it’s just that because disputes are becoming more complex, as they’re more diverse in, in the types of disputes that are coming about where that where we’re being whether being seen, yeah, it’s not one size fits all same for litigation for arbitration equally, which is why mediation is really is really coming forward as a as an alternative. And, you know, it’s not again, it’s not a perfect fit for every dispute. But, you know, it’s a great example of how the dispute resolution profession has adapted and evolved to answer or to cater to a requirement that was there that wasn’t being perfectly catered to with the existing mechanisms. 

Robert Hanna 29:21 

Yeah, and exactly, and something that I talked about a lot, as well, as, you know, needing to have that adaptability in the law and have these other mechanisms that exist, that probably has slightly more fit for purpose. But, Laura, anything you would add to that, or any of your thoughts on that particular one? 

Laura Coad 29:33 

Yeah, I just I didn’t, you know, the legal profession generally as as, you know, including disputes is is kind of steeped in in tradition, you know, people will see London, you know, maybe it might be viewed as being archaic, but that we’ve got to is a way of finding the keeping the traditions and you know, the beautiful courts and things like that, but moving with the modern times, but obviously, things evolve and are adapting so rapidly. It’s whether it keeps Stop and how it keeps up without losing those traditions. So I think that is a that is important. And I think, you know, like Michael said, with the the evolution of arbitration and mediation and kind of different angles for disputes, I think you can see that’s where it’s going. And there’s all there is a forward focus, but it’s just not losing something. But keeping up with the times I think that’s really important. 

Robert Hanna 30:22 

Yeah. And we’re, and we’re all for that. And absolutely, you are with what you’re doing and what you’re putting on. And you know, everything that you stand for this question is for both of you, Michael, coming back to you, what would be your top three tips for someone attending the IDW for the first time and looking to network? 

Michael Laming 30:40 

Question registrare. Yeah, and I say that because there are there are a number of members doing this in particular, there are sort of depending on where they’re where they’re being held, there is limited capacity. And you know, it’s happened to the past that, you know, you put you put that off, because the conference did a couple of months, when you find out that you’re limited to either virtual attendance, which is, which is great, but not quite the same as that in the room, in the room feeling. Attend LDW ei are events, of course, you know, it’s not just for the young. That’s what that’s what the name says. And, you know, there really are great events and you know, the teams put a lot of thought in into creating these events, but that exactly do what do what I think we need to be doing for the younger community and the art heart community, of course, and then returning that Laura, Laura touched on earlier is just sort of, don’t be don’t be afraid of the the extensive programme that LDW has, but but embrace it, you know, there is probably in sort of a comfort in going to events on or MS events, or the main sort of subjects that you know, and you’re familiar with, by all means, great, you know, you can pick up some additional additional bits and new information that you can apply in your day to day, but yeah, I mean, for me, it’s a great opportunity to go and discover discover completely new things. I mean, last year, there was some really good memo hosted events on on sports disputes, which, you know, it’s not saying okay, it’s to my day to day, but I’d love to be involved in more it was perfect setting to kind of go and see, oh, when I talk about sports future, that’s probably what I need to be talking about. So yes, I mean, go through the programme, look carefully register quickly, and, and just enjoy enjoy the offering that there is,  

Robert Hanna 32:19 

yeah, I love that. And Laura, what would be your sort of top three tips. 

Laura Coad 32:21 

So you know, I think networking for young practitioners can be quite daunting. I mean, it can be daunting, even to those most experienced, you know, walking into a room full of people isn’t the most comfortable pick, most people find it more comfortable than others, but not actually many people do find that comfortable. So, you know, people can have a face and put a face on better than others. But I would just say, you know, be yourself go to go do what you want to go to try and push yourself out of out of your comfort zone. But you know, don’t do it to the point that, you know, it’s not gonna make you feel that comfortable. I mean, one I was, had some advice previously, where, you know, it’s good to try and create your own profile, and connections, right from the very beginning of your career. Because, you know, you don’t know who you might meet these people might become your friends and your support network, throughout your career, you know, you know, you’re not always thinking about where, you know, next piece of piece of work comes down the line, but you know, if you’ve got friends and people, you know, that naturally will just occur. So you just got to create your own image, your own profile, who you are, don’t, you know, don’t try and copy other people, you know, be yourself. And you know, if you’re in a group, for example, or you’re speaking to someone, and someone says, oh, you know, I’ve got a, I’m gonna go and talk to someone else now. And don’t be disheartened by that just kind of be like, Oh, go on to the move to the next person, maybe we didn’t get along, and I’ll talk to next person and this, this will be a great opportunity, you know, I’d really get along with that person. So yeah, just don’t be disheartened by thing. By anything like that. I would also advise, you know, posting on LinkedIn, maybe a couple of weeks before the event itself, just so people are aware that you might be going on and send maybe a couple of messages to other people who you’ve seen and go in and say, Oh, would be good to meet up what you’re going to like start conversations and then always, you know, after you’ve been told I did W I’ve always been told to, it’s important to follow up, follow up those people you’ve met, and see, you know, how you can develop that relationship that you were able to form. So I 

Robert Hanna 34:17 

love that great tip. So we say fortune is in the follow up. And yeah, absolutely. We’re big fans of LinkedIn and getting yourself out there. And you know, you never know there might be a sort of long lost connection or a follower that actually, you know, has been meaning to get in touch with you for last six months. That’s that sees that as the perfect opportunity. So yeah, I love that and just not trying to be someone that you’re not I’m being authentic and you know, taking the experience for what it is. Okay. What plans do you have for the Nid? W yah, yah, after 2024. Michael, coming to you. 

Michael Laming 34:47 

Yes, good question. It’s something we’ve we’ve already we’ve already started discussing, which shows sort of, I think, that we’ve got we’ve got a lot of a lot of expectation, but it’s a great thing to have I think one thing where one of the things we’ve really pushed on this year is not just the educational side. So you know, giving giving an education opportunity to the to the EIR group and not giving it just to a one night social. But also collaboration. You know, I think what we found in terms of tickets to registration so far, the the dinner club, we’ve got to organise for Tuesday night, I think sold out quicker than we’d hoped. To the extent that, you know, we had to find some additional tickets so that our own members of the committee could actually actually sign up. It’s just collaborating with all those groups. So I think what we’re going to be looking to do going forward is probably trying to do more regular collaboration events, not necessarily be limited by the one week that LW falls on. But doing it a bit more regularly, just because, you know, one, once a year can be quite a lot of pressure. And it will can also fall at a terrible time in someone’s work handle, which means they can’t make the most of the event, which is just bad luck. So if we’re able to do some more regular events, which will be helped if we can collaborate with other groups, because we just have a much broader, broader reach, that I think would be something great that I think we’d all be really, really pleased to try and do. And then next year, just build on the success of the educational side of things, you know, God is an excellent partner to have little rocks are an excellent partner to have, you know, in all the all the member hosted events with members are very keen to do more with your community. So to the extent we can get them to do your events, wonderful. 

Robert Hanna 36:23 

Yeah. And I love that. Laura, what would you add? 

Laura Coad 36:25 

And yeah, I think we were looking to you know, kind of collaborate with maybe International, other international yah, yah, yah, yah, specific for young practitioners groups. So, for example, this year, I’m a member of Aida, so we’re, you know, they’re getting involved with Ally GW itself, as well. So it’s important that, you know, other young groups internationally also kind of get involved, which brings in the collaboration, so it would work quite well, for younger practitioners to see and encourage young practitioners globally to come to Li GW. So you create those kinds of global relationships as well. 

Robert Hanna 36:59 

I want to come to you stick with you. Finally, Laura, what would be your advice for those looking to pursue a career in dispute resolution? 

Laura Coad 37:10 

So obviously, you know, the the usual, you know, it’s necessary to be hardworking and resilient. It’s not it’s not, you know, the easiest of jobs. But, you know, what, what is an easy job? Yeah, it’s one of those, but I touched on it earlier. But I think one of the important things to do is, you know, create a network right from the beginning of your career, self promoting yourself, but also, you know, that it will helps you to build, build your own confidence as well, I’m not just coming into the office and doing my job and putting down all the hours and then leaving, it’s like, there’s more to it than that. It’s not just, you know, working all the hours under the sun, it’s, you know, speaking to people and creating relationships, and building on those, because that will help you later in your career as well, you know, your career develops as you move up the ranks into, you know, more senior associate roles or partner roles in the kind of legal world. So, you know, I think that’s, you know, I’ve touched on it before, but again, I’m trying to push on it a bit more, but because of, you know, events like LR DW really do help them help you to build your platform. And, you know, if you prefer smaller things, like going out for lunches, maybe meeting people at these events, and then building on those a bit more, it just kind of like trickles out, and then you start seeing the same sort of people at different events and you build that confidence, you become more well known. And it’s like, oh, people do know who I am. That’s quite nice. And it’s just kind of it builds you up all the time. So it’s a really good good way of creating a career path for yourself. 

Robert Hanna 38:42 

Ya know, I’m really well said and we absolutely you know, big fans of it over here on the legally speaking podcast. So, Michael, before we wrap up, if our listeners want to learn more about Elijah UW, yah, yah, how can they find out more? Where can they buy tickets, and feel free to check out any social media handles websites? And we’ll also share them with this episode for you too. Yeah, of course, the 

Michael Laming 39:02 

probably the central base is centralises, the the LW 2024 website, which is 2020 four.ltw.co.uk isolate, that link should work and you’ll find all the information needed on the programme details, the event, FAQ and whatnot. And then, you know, if you’re on LinkedIn, I imagine if we’re doing our job properly, there will be multiple posts from various members of committee and other sports and groups. Click on it and if you’re really struggling to find anything, then you know, Laura and I or any other member of the committee will be more than happy to provide whatever details we can. 

Robert Hanna 39:41 

Absolutely well I just leads me to say thank you so so much, Michael. Laura, it’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show wishing you lots of continued success with your careers and indeed the London international disputes week and your your and everything you’re getting up to but from now from all of us on the show, over and out.