LegalTechTalk Uncovered 2025 – Johnny & Sarah Shearman – E06

You can hear Rob, Sarah and johnny discussing:

Connect with Johnny here: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnnyshearman/

Connect with Sarah here: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-shearman/

Transcript

00:00

Welcome to the Legally Speaking podcast, Legal Tech Talk Uncovered Mini Series 2025, sponsored by Clio.

00:07

We’re back with our red mic for a behind the scenes series all about legal innovation at Europe’s largest legal tech event.

00:15

So we’re granted access to meet some of the greatest speakers, sponsors, brands in the whole legal tech world.

00:22

We’ve got 300 speakers with over 70 sessions with over 4,000 attendees from all across the globe, hittinghere over the next two days at Legal Tech Talk live in London.

00:33

From AI to access to justice to smart compliance, you name it, we’re covering it all.

00:38

This isn’t just another conversation or another conference, it’s a blueprint for community and transformation.

00:45

So buckle up, we’re speaking with some incredible people about policy change, change makers, legal innovation, and so much more over and out.

00:55

Welcome to the Legally Speaking podcast recording live here at Legal Tech Talk.

01:00

I am joined by name, title and organisation.

01:03

Johnny Shearman, Practice Group Counsel at Greenberg Traurig.

01:06

And Sarah Shearman, Knowledge Counsel at Mayer Brown International.

01:10

Absolutely.

01:10

And it’s a pleasure to have you both on the show doing this here live in London.

01:15

Johnny, coming to you first, what’s one problem you’re actually trying to solve in legal?

01:20

Well, look, if I can mention something verytopical at the moment because we’ve just won some awards for it.

01:25

But we have just launched a new set of arbitration rules, which is called the blockchain expedited arbitration rules.

01:32

And this is specifically designed to resolve conflicts for web3 disputes and looking at bug bounties.

01:41

So super topical, really quite niche in terms of the organizations that are doing this with working with white hat hackers and large web3 projects and really looking at the futurein terms of how we can resolve these issues.

01:55

Yeah, and I love that.

01:56

And our listeners know we’ve done a lot of content around Web3, the metaverse and where the future’s going, the blockchain.

02:01

So yeah, very exciting.

02:03

Okay, Sarah, coming to you, you’ve obviously come to the Europe’s largest legal tech conference.

02:07

What do you think is 1 assumption people have about legal tech that perhaps they still get wrong?

02:12

Interesting.

02:13

I think a lot of people assume that legal tech is not for them, particularly if you’re a lawyer.

02:18

It’s for the guys in innovation and IT, whereas actually, particularly now with AI and just how prolific it all is, really, it is for everybody, everywhere in an era of massive disruption, and everybody needs to be on top of what’s happening and how to be using that technology.

02:33

And I think AI in particular, it’s such a broad tool.

02:38

It can be used in so many different ways, and I think individuals really need to get to understand it for themselveswhat works for them.

02:43

It’s not like a tool just for one work stream.

02:45

I think it’s for several.

02:46

I guess there’s an expansion to that, sticking with you, Sarah.

02:49

How do you think you get increased adoption of legal tech?

02:52

Because at the moment, there’s loads of it, but we need to actually get the adoption levels to a right.

02:57

So what would you say from looking inside in?

02:58

It’s a great question, and it’s one that as Knowledge Council, we’re always trying to help the innovation teams with.

03:03

And I think the thing is, really kind of you have to be relentless, and you have to get people trying it out for themselves, and you have to find whatever way works.

03:12

SoFor me and my team at the moment, we’ve been working with a working group to basically brainstorm ideas and come up with success stories and then share those with everyone in every different format and get people thinking, give them ideas and tell them that it’s not scary, everybody’s just experimenting and bring them on the journey with you.

03:32

And those success stories are so true.

03:33

I saw the board of a couple of legal techs and the first question most of the firms say is, well, who’s using it at the moment or what’s it achieved?

03:40

I think as soon as you can get that proof, I think he helpsJohnny, coming to you, what sessions have you enjoyed?

03:47

Are you taking part in any sessions yourself whilst here at Legal Tech Talk?

03:50

Just talk us through it.

03:52

I’ve enjoyed a lot, to be honest with you, and I missed it last year, and my LinkedIn was going through the roof in terms of saying how good Legal Tech Talk was, and so I thought we’d better be here this year to check it out.

04:04

So I’m not speaking on anything, but we’ve attended a lot.

04:07

The session earlier with the CEO from Microsoft was really interesting.

04:10

I mean, clearly, you know, you want them to be on top of everything in terms of, you know, how integrated they are in terms of our law firm operations, but they absolutely are.

04:20

There’s been loads on AI, understandably.

04:24

Just sat in on the session with Garfield AI in terms of the new law firmwhich is obviously leveraging AI heavily.

04:33

So just lots of interesting topics to be delving into.

04:37

I think the more interesting question will be, what are we talking about next year, to be honest with you?

04:41

I think that would be the really, really, really interesting thing to think about.

04:44

And it’s so true, because last year we were here, and a year on we’ve already seen innovation and progress, and next year it’s just going to be another level.

04:52

Okay, Sarah, you’re busy.

04:53

There’s only 70 hours in the day, and a lot of people say to me, Rob, I don’t have time to come to conferences.

04:57

They’re all the same.

04:58

Do you really get anything fromSo, someone who is busy, who is here, what would you say to somebody to encourage them to get out there more and come to things like this?

05:06

I think it depends on your role as to what you stand to get out of it.

05:09

But I think if you’re a vanilla lawyer, it’s such a great atmosphere to be just talking to people and networking in a really relaxed environment.

05:18

It’s very different from your typical client-facing event where everyone gets a bit nervous, especially as lawyers because we always want to be right.

05:24

And also, especially these technology conferences, the atmosphere is so differentActually, so kind of almost the opposite of what lawyers tend.

05:32

to be, which is stuck in the facts.

05:33

Especially right now with this AI era of disruption, it’s so creative, but no one has the answers yet.

05:41

And it’s so apparent that actually all of us, the lawyers and the technology lawyers, all together, we’re figuring this out.

05:47

We’re trying to find the way together.

05:48

And I think that’s a really important and inspiring thing to be a part of now.

05:52

And I think in the future, when five years from now and the technology’s advanced so much, you’re going to be so much more confident in using it, having been here from the beginning and realized that not everybody just instantly knowsNo.

06:02

This is how it works.

06:04

And I got a great piece of wisdom earlier.

06:06

It’s a bit tongue-in-cheek from Akil Hunt, who runs non-Russell Group lawyers.

06:09

I said, what’s the best bit of wisdom you’ve heard?

06:10

He said, we’re all idiots.

06:11

And I think there’s an element of that.

06:13

It’s true, right?

06:13

We’re all still figuring it out.

06:14

We’re all still learning.

06:15

Couldn’t be more true when it comes to AI.

06:17

So Johnny, the six themes of this year at Legal Tech Talk are law and tech, evolution, revolution, access to justice, purpose-driven law, collaboration and smart compliance.

06:26

Which out of those speaks to you the loudest and why?

06:29

I mean, immediately, as soon as you said access to justice, I think, I mean, you know, there’s a real justice gap actually in this jurisdiction and others in terms of, you know, where you have a dispute which has a sizable claim value attached to it, but actually the legal costs make it prohibitive to be able to access justice and access the courts in a meaningful way.

06:51

And so, you know, that is one of the great things that actually, you know, AI online platforms are looking to do is actually to reduce that gap, meaning that morepeople can access justice and I think ultimately that’s a very good thing for this jurisdiction to be leading on.

07:04

Yeah and we always talk a lot about on the show and with Cleo as well I’ve got a huge mission in terms of reducing that access to justice gap and tech for good.

07:11

So Sarah let’s fast forward five years imagine we’re in 2030 what do you hope one thing will be gone in the law and one thing that’s done better in the law?

07:20

Oh that is a tough question.

07:22

One thing that will be gone in the law I would say I kind of want to say the billablepopular for saying that.

07:32

It frustrates me, this sort of constant struggle between clients and law firms and trying to battle down the efficiencies and the costs and everything.

07:38

And it always seems to be this kind of just complete tension that seems to be unsolvable.

07:44

People have been saying the billable hour is dying for decades and it never quite makes it.

07:49

It frustrates me that there’s always that barrier of sorts between law firms and clients.

07:54

I really would just like us to evolve.

07:57

I also think it would benefit the lawyers, particularly at the more junior end, who aren’t necessarily profiting to the same extent.

08:03

I think it would be healthier for everyone to be less focused on the billable hour and more focused on outcomes and deliverables and getting it done in the most efficientof amount of time.

08:12

Yeah, no, I’m here for that.

08:13

Okay, Johnny, as someone who’s regularly speaking at conferences, going out to events, what’s one thing that surprised you about Legal Tech Talk?

08:21

Oh, there’s a real buzz.

08:22

I mean, like an absolute real buzz about Legal Tech Talk, I’ve got to be honest with you.

08:27

I think it’s just the approach that, you know, the team’s taken to this event.

08:32

You know, getting like-minded people in a great location, giving us free coffee always helps.

08:39

But, you know, also just thinking about the guestsand the panelists and the speakers, and it’s great content.

08:45

And ultimately, we are also here to network as well.

08:48

And I think that’s been set up really well for us here at Legal Tech Talk.

08:52

I’m in no doubt that the team will be here next year and for years to come getting bigger and better as well.

08:57

Yeah, absolutely.

08:58

I mean, there’s some huge names here today and just also great people from all walks of the legal community.

09:02

So Sarah, as we look to close, what’s been your biggest aha moment of Legal Tech Talk 2025 thus far?

09:09

I think today for me it has been actually that as lawyers it’s so important for us to start exercising almost like a different muscle in our brains, which is that pure blue sky thinking, creative mode.

09:21

We obviously do a lot of creative thinking in our day jobs as lawyers, but it’s always within a framework.

09:25

It’s always within a sort of comfort blanket.

09:27

And I think the Legal Tech Talk has really driven home to me that actuallyIn this sort of AI world, there aren’t the same barriers and boundaries and rules.

09:37

And actually, we need to get more comfortable with that and operating in that way and thinking with a bit more freedom and a bit more enthusiasm in that world, which is hard for lawyers to do.

09:46

But it’s really nice to see so many lawyers here today doing that or taking that first step.

09:50

Yeah, and it’s only going to continue to grow with things like today and the energy from today.

09:54

So if people want to get in touch with yourself, Sarah, what’s the best place for them to go or to learn more about your firm or what they’re doing?

09:59

Feel free to share any websites or anysocial media handles and also to you, Johnny.

10:03

Perfect, so the best place to find me is probably on LinkedIn.

10:06

I’m Sarah Shearman, you can search for me, I work for Mayer Brown, that’ll probably come up to you.

10:10

Mayer Brown has a website, it’s a bit of insights, I write a lot of them, but not all of them.

10:16

There are other lawyers.

10:17

Available, there are.

10:18

Yeah, exactly.

10:19

And yourself, Johnny?

10:20

Always on LinkedIn, you can find me on there, Johnny Shearman.

10:23

Please obviously go to the Greenberg Traurig website as well, we’re putting out a lot of content on there.

10:29

But you’re going to find me on LinkedIn and chatting away probably with you, Rob.

10:32

Yeah, absolutely.

10:33

And just to remind people, Johnny is a returning guest to this show.

10:35

So it just leads me to say thanks ever so much to both of you for joining me here live at Legal Tech Talk.

10:40

But from now, from all of us on the League Speaking Podcast, sponsored by Clio, over and out.

10:43

Thank you for listening to this week’s episode.

10:46

If you like the content here, why not check out our world-leading content and collaboration hub, the Legally Speaking Club over on Discord, go to our website,legallyspeakingpodcast.com for the link to join our community there.

11:03

Over and out!