Legally On The Move: Strategy, Scaling, Sunshine and Success from Ibiza – Multi-Guest Panel – E1

You can hear Rob and the panel discussing:

– Mental Fitness as a Leadership Skill

– Performing Under Pressure

– Scaling Without Losing Culture

– Client Experience with Empathy

– Strategic Clarity & Longevity in Law

Transcript

00:00

What happens when you gather the UK’s boldest legal minds on a sun-drenched retreat in Ibiza and press record?

00:07

Welcome to the Lawyers’ Retreat mini-series, a special edition of the Legally Speaking podcast sponsored by Clio.

00:13

We’ve partnered with the visionaries behind the Lawyers’ Retreat, the wonderful Kate Burr and Kirsty Papin to bring you real, unfiltered conversations from Carla Carbo, where strategy, succession and scaling and sunshine meet.

00:28

This isn’t your average CPD,It’s leadership with a view, innovation with a cocktail, and well-being with purpose.

00:35

You’ll hear from trailblazers rethinking the legal playbook with the episodes recorded poolside, mic hike, and even post-yoga.

00:44

2025 is our year of 10Xing the show.

00:47

This mini-series is just the beginning.

00:49

So let’s get into it.

00:54

Welcome to a special episode of the Legally Speaking podcast recorded poolside at the Lawyers Retreat in Ibiza.

01:04

I’m your host Rob Hanna and I’m delighted to be joined by five incredible panellists this evening.

01:08

So let’s go across and have each of you briefly introduce yourself, your name, title and organisation.

01:14

Hi, my name is Maya Aichura.

01:16

I’m the UK’s leading mental fitness and visualisation expert from Remap Mental Fitness.

01:21

Also, apologies, I think I came to a blue party, not a white party.

01:25

Hi everyone, I’m Imran Ali.

01:27

I’m the managing director of a criminal defence firm and the type of work we deal with is criminal defence work, high stakes work for professionals.

01:38

Hello, good evening, thank you Kate and Kirsty for putting me in this hot seat today.

01:43

My name is Rakiba Rahim, just finished working as a managing partner from Ronald Fetcher Baker after 35 years.

01:51

I’m currently on a break so I have no title at the moment, I’m just Rakiba Rahim.

01:55

Good evening, I’m Sarah Birdsey, I’m the owner of Nichols Solicitors, we’re a high street practice just outside Manchester.

02:01

Good evening everybody, I’m Peter Meadows, I’m Chairman of Meadows Co Solicitors.

02:06

So Maya, what’s been one standout moment from day one of the Lawyers Retreat for you and why?

02:13

I guess slightly biased, but it was genuinely an honour and privilege to be able to share mental fitness, visualisation with all of you and do that visualisation together.

02:22

But as well, you know, in those conversations, just one-on-one or on those tables at lunch and dinner, it’s so magical and you just can’t replicate that elsewhere.

02:32

So, yeah, it’s just been an honor to spend time with you all today, basically.

02:36

Good stuff.

02:37

Are you helping, Ran?

02:38

Yes, the highlight of the day for me has been the strategic coach presentation.

02:44

And the reason for that is that it’s given me absolute clarity.

02:49

I’ve learnt that there are certain things that I need to drop to become more efficient in what I do.

02:57

So yeah, it has to be a strategic coach.

02:59

And that’s one of the main reasons why I was attracted to the Lawyers’ Retreat in the first instance anyway.

03:07

Thank you.

03:09

Yeah, hello.

03:11

To be quite honest, there isn’t, I think every moment was a standout moment to me because this is the first retreat I’ve ever come to.

03:18

It’s a break for me after 35 years in being amongst, you know, so many entrepreneurs.

03:25

I am just like in awe of all of you who just take that brave step in wanting to do something which is, you’re in no man’s land when you’re starting your own business.

03:37

Me, I did not startof wanting to be in business.

03:40

I accidentally ended up being in business, but my goodness, would I turn the clock back?

03:44

No.

03:45

I thoroughly enjoyed every moment of it and David Batchelor’s coaching this morning was excellent.

03:52

Maya, you were also amazing.

03:54

Thank you so much.

03:55

Thank you all of you who have had little conversations with, snippets of conversation and Michael Wolf, you’re a standout guy.

04:04

Thank you so much.

04:05

Yeah, and I could go on and name many, many people, but I’ll pass it on.

04:11

Yes, so for myself, Maya, your visualisation this morning was fantastic and the weather even conformed because as we finished this amazing visualisation, the rain stopped and the clouds lifted and it was quite a serene experience, so that was really, really special.

04:29

I also enjoyed David’s speech this morning from Strategic Coach.

04:33

He really made me sort of focus on what the priorities are really and what’s important in termsof the business when we’re growing but also myself in terms of where we’re growing and where we’re heading too.

04:44

I feel very blessed today to listen to some very very good speakers, most impressed of all of them, but I’ve got a bit of a weird sense of humour and I must say that I found Michael veryinteresting and entertaining this morning.

05:01

I just loved the way he said, just double your fees, and I mean, that’s so outrageous.

05:08

And he said he had a difficult proverb, so.

05:11

he just publicly announced he had little to do with him and it’s been a wonderful day.

05:16

Let’s go back to Maya and get into some of the heart of the content.

05:21

So Maya, you’ve said that mental fitness isn’t a luxury, it’s a leadership skill.

05:27

So for legal leaders often in reactive mode, what’s one daily practice they can start using to lead with more intention and less burnout?

05:37

So it’s a great question and obviously I could spend an hour talking about that, one thing.

05:42

But I’d say from experienced coaching leaders, especially some in the legal sector, I think one thing to ask yourself is if you can start being really intentional with your character and so simply even just saying what would my 2.0 version do in this situation, it will make your brain just stop and respond slightly differently and we arealways in reactive mode, we’re on autopilot, when we’re under pressure, we basically go back to our familiar patterns rather than actually being able to perform the way we want to.

06:17

So that simple question of, okay, but what would my 2.0 version do here?

06:22

What would my 10.0 version do here?

06:24

That one little question can help you show up in another way because you’re not always going to get it right, you’re not going to make the right decisions all the time and things will get tough and you’re going to be overwhelmed, overworked, but if you can just control the onethat we all can control, which is how we show up into a room, how we are expressing our kindness to the people we’re working with, and how we perhaps sometimes admit that we don’t know things or, you know, stay curious in learning.

06:50

That one question, what would my 2.0 version do?

06:52

And all of us can actually take that away right now.

06:56

I love that.

06:57

And there’s no surprise or you’re an expert at what you do.

07:00

Plus one to everything you just said.

07:02

Coming to you now, Imran, you operate in a world where pressure is a constant and margin for error is zero.

07:08

So what strategies have helped you lead with clarity when working under pressure?

07:12

And how can others apply them in these extreme settings?

07:16

Great question.

07:18

There’s a number of ways that I deal with pressure.

07:22

and one of those ways is that I’ve spent a bit of time in the mindset coaching arena and as a result of that I’ve learnt a lot of things about myself and one of the things that I’ve learnt is that not talking about coaching in detail but I’ve learnt that basicallyyou can really choose the state that you really want to be in.

07:48

So you’ve got the ability, each and every one of us has the ability to choose the state that they want to be in.

07:55

And as Maya said earlier, that sometimes we tell stories to ourselves, sometimes those stories are not generally necessarily correct.

08:06

What I’ve learnt about myself is for me to be in complete focus, for instance,I have to be in a very clean environment.

08:16

I’m a kinesthetic type of guy so I’ve got to feel that I’m in this flow state and in some ways also in addition I like to be in an environment where the smell’s really nice.

08:30

That puts me in ultimate focus and I’m able to handle any types of pressure.

08:37

Another way is that if I feel overwhelmed, I know that there’sso many things to do, just stop, pause, take some time out, go for a walk, leave the project for a day or two, in a way it’s controlling the deadlines that you’ve perhaps set for yourself, it’s okay to go over by a day or two or maybe three, just be in that flow state, sometimes it’s as simple as stopping, so that’s how I deal withpressure and from that I’d just like to share that it’s easy for everybody else to learn about what makes them perform in a flow state and also it’s easy for people just to pause, breathe and stop.

09:23

Yeah, power and the pause, I strongly believe that and again thanks for showing so openly and to your point around, I would say the little touch is a big impact, to the point about the smell, if you come into an environment that little touch just sort of amplifies the way that you operate.

09:36

Okay, coming to you now Rakiba, you’ve led through major growth phases, what’s one practical shiftthat’s helped you scale without compromising on culture?

09:44

And what would you do differently if starting over again from your years of experience?

09:47

Oh gosh.

09:50

Nice easy question.

09:52

I don’t know how many of you know of me or the firm.

09:55

So I started with Ronald Fletcher Baker as a paralegal back in 1989, 6th of November 1989, still remember it.

10:03

And I started right from the bottom, basically, and I then became a trainee solicitor, upper solicitor, then partner, then managing partner, where I ended my career after 35 years.

10:16

And the firm, when I started was just roughly about 12.

10:21

as I left it was 140.

10:24

In terms of scaling up, what was very, very important, people are your assets and that’s the first thing you have to really recognise is the talent in people and sometimes when people come before you in an interview, they themselves don’t even know their potential and I would like to think that I was very good in spotting those potentials and working with the individual and getting them to be the best that they can and in doing so,I’m not a jealous person.

10:53

I love to see people achieve because when they achieve, I feel that I’m also achieving.

10:59

And it is through that organic growth, working with individuals, so people are your assets, but along the way, there has been so many challenges.

11:08

I mean, come on, the economy, the politics, everything will interfere with your business.

11:13

You have to be alive to all of those challenges and also with changes in terms of how efficient you can be, in terms of scalingup.

11:22

So technology played a very critical part in that as well.

11:26

So all of those things together, yeah, the one thing I can say, you just have to be alive to the things that’s going to make your business grow and those are the components you look for in terms of when you’re doing it.

11:39

I love how you started with people, putting my talent and legal recruiting hat on.

11:44

It’s so important and I love your, people who follow me, I always used to like the expression collaboration is domination and we is greater than me and if youactually invest in those people and be happy for them, you grow together and it’s a win-win.

11:57

Love those insights, thank you.

11:58

Sarah, coming to you, as a solicitor and firm owner, how do you design a client experience you genuinely want for yourself and what’s one change that’s made the biggest difference for your firm?

12:10

It’s interesting that you ask.

12:11

So I, as a lawyer, I’m a family lawyer, so I deal with a lot of divorce.

12:16

and separation, it’s something that I’ve been through personally and so I understand I suppose what is needed from a client’s perspective and I think that brings a different level of understanding and empathy in terms of our client’s journey and it’s very important for us as a firm that we’re not just taking our clients through a step-by-step process, we’re there to support them and generally when they come to us they arein a point of crisis sometimes, or certainly a point of change, whether that’s a relationship breakdown, or it’s a bereavement, or it’s, you know, they’re moving house, they’re changing their employment, all of that is stressful.

12:54

And so it’s important for us to be able to support our clients through that journey.

12:58

And I often talk about the transformation that I see with my clients when they’re going through a separation.

13:03

The person that I see in that first interview, that first meeting, is very different to the personwho’s gone through the process and is coming out the other end and is actually positive about the way forward and is positive about the future and it’s quite an honour for me to be part of that journey, you know, even in a small way.

13:20

So in terms of the processes that we go through and things that make a change to our clients’ journey, I suppose that technology is a huge part of that in terms of keeping up with the change in technology, innovation andBut we have to make sure that along that journey, we’re still keeping that personal touch.

13:40

And that’s part of why I’m here today, really, is to step away from the business and just focus on those processes and make sure that, yes, while we’re using technology, while we’re moving things forward and streamlining the processes, we’re still including that personal touch, which is really important for us as a business.

13:54

Yeah, and completely agree.

13:55

And I love how you sort of highlight empathy.

13:57

And again, people who listen to the show, a lot of our listeners are sick of me saying we’re not in the B2B or B2C world anymore in the H2H.

14:04

It’s that human to human connection.

14:05

We’re stillcraving, even in the height of an AI revolution, which Piers Linney, former Dragon’s Den investor and lawyer, was on our show before, says AI is not once in a revolution, but once in a species opportunity.

14:15

And I genuinely believe that I think the opportunity is humongous.

14:18

So Peter, pulling it around to you, you know, there’s so much wisdom we could unpack.

14:23

So I’ll try and get a question where you can share as much of that as possible.

14:26

You’ve grown, you’ve merged, successful firm over decades.

14:29

What’s one principal decision that helped you create something long lasting?

14:34

And what advice would you give to others thinkingthinking about building a practice today looking back?

14:38

I can’t think that I can actually set out a principle that I’ve pursued or we as a firm have pursued.

14:48

I think I’m very fortunate in being able to say that opportunities came our way and we just had to analyse each opportunity and we had to make sure that the people who joined us would fit into our model.

15:02

and they had the same sort of personalities and principles that we have.

15:09

First of all, I wish you the very best of luck.

15:11

I think that if I was starting again now, I think I’d be terrified at the prospect and I’d probably, due to the obstacles I’ve had to overcome or we’ve had to overcome, I think I’d be quite wary.

15:25

But I think you’ve got to follow your gut instinct.

15:29

I thinkI think it depends on what sort of person you are.

15:32

It’s not everybody that’s made to actually be an entrepreneur who’s equipped to take a challenge.

15:41

I mean, speaking of myself, I worked in commerce for five years when I first qualified.

15:49

And we hit upon a recession.

15:52

And I, together with hundreds of other people, were due to lose our jobs.

15:57

So my late wife said to me, Well, Peter, you want to do what you always wanted to do, that is, start your own firm.

16:04

And I’d never wanted to start my own firm, but my wife encouraged me and she sort of pushed me into it.

16:10

And I got an overdraft and my wife and I said that we would use the overdraft and when the overdraft had gone, I’d get a proper job.

16:24

But I think luck came my way and fortunately we never had to touch the overdraft and a lot of very interesting clients came my way.

16:32

So I think there’s a lot of luck that comes into it.

16:36

And when you start up a business, I mean, you don’t know what’s around the corner, you don’t know whether there’s going to be a recession.

16:44

So I think luck is a big factor.

16:48

But I think that if you do want to set out on your own, you’ve got to say to yourself,Do I have the attributes?

16:54

And you could have people closely around you who recognise your attributes and encourage you, because those who are closely around you would…

17:05

talk you out of it if they felt you didn’t have what it takes.

17:09

Yeah, there’s so many things I can unpack there that I’m listening to and just relating to.

17:13

And I love that your late wife did that because I always say the comfort zone is great but nothing ever grows there and actually that’s kind of pushing you out of that comfort zone and so successful.

17:21

And you know passion will ultimately always pull you through.

17:24

And again, yeah, we’re in interesting times at the moment and I think you have to be curious, you have to be willing to learn, you have to be prepared to put yourself out there.

17:30

So thank you for sharing that wisdom with us.

17:33

We’d love to come back to you now, Maya.

17:36

for your sort of follow-up question.

17:37

And I love this because you’re building the Nike of mental fitness.

17:41

So if the legal sector were your next big audience, which I’m sure they’re going to continue to be even more so off the back of the lawyer’s retreat, what would your starter playbook look like to help law firms embed a mindset into their training as part of their culture?

17:58

Another easy question.

18:00

When I first started my work in mental fitness, I started trying with the corporate world, and I really didn’t like it because, as we all know, it’s a bit of a tick box exercise.

18:12

But then I started to really understand what employees, whether you’re a lawyer, whether you are a consultant, whatever it might be, or a business owner, MD, what is actually going on?

18:25

Like, what would you actually want?

18:27

And the thing that I’ve found resonates with people is at the end of the day, every single lawyer or high performer has to treat themselves like an athlete.

18:39

You have to because when I look at how an athlete treats their work and their lives, you know, rest is part of the work, it’s not a reward for the work.

18:48

It’s ingrained within their lifestyle, their seasons essentially.

18:53

after they’ve just done a marathon, do they do another one?

18:56

Probably not.

18:56

They would know to recover and to recharge.

19:00

But also when you think about how they prepare for, you know, big days or big matches, there’s a lot of preparation that we don’t see.

19:07

And champions aren’t made in the ring, they’re just merely recognized there.

19:12

And I think it’s the same with a lot of different arenas and careers.

19:17

And so when we actually start to think, okay, if I invest in myself like I am an athlete, and that meansmy body, my mind, my emotions, even my soul, like my purpose.

19:27

I think the way we view our own mindset changes.

19:31

And the reason why a lot of people don’t like me, and I’ll explain why, is because stop blaming your employer for your mental health.

19:43

Like, it’s not your fault, agreed, but it is our responsibility.

19:47

And I mean that in the most exciting way.

19:49

If an individual decides, hey, I want to take ownership of my own mindset, I’m going to work on my boundaries, I’m going to work on…

19:56

my own vision, or I’m going to contribute to the firm’s vision, that is cool.

20:01

You will stand out.

20:02

Because actually, you know, it’s not anyone else’s job, it’s not your parents’ job, it’s not your partner’s job, it’s not your employer’s job to solve what’s going on in here.

20:10

You are the expert.

20:11

And I think ever, when you take ownership and you take responsibility, that’s when a lot can change.

20:16

So really, if I was going for the legal sector, I would start with the people that’s going to impact the most, which is the athletes who are doingthe big stuff and the actual work every single day, because it has to start from bottom up as well.

20:32

Yeah, and I love all of those insights.

20:34

And it reminds me of what a mentor said to me very, very early on around accountability.

20:38

If it’s meant to be, it’s up to me.

20:40

You have to be self-accountable for these things.

20:42

And I think my early basketball coach in school days said one thing around AIE, and it’s always stuck with me.

20:47

Attitude is everything.

20:48

And I think if you have the right attitude, then you can absolutely overcome any situation.

20:52

So yeah, I really appreciate you sharing all those insights.

20:54

Imran, coming to you,For your follow-up question, you’ve obviously built a firm defined around trust, integrity and compassion.

21:01

What’s one tangible way law firm leaders can embed those values as they grow?

21:05

I think so far as that question is concerned, for me, it took me some time to really think about our values.

21:15

You know, sometimes values areValues that just appear in a manual or you might walk into an office and you might see some signs that have values in the office but then do people really live and breathe those values?

21:30

So for me it was a case of really looking inside of myself first and thinking about things in this way that what are my values?

21:40

What do I expect from people?

21:43

And having done some deep inner work, I was able to establish that my values fundamentally are, I’d like some integrity from people, I’d like trust, and I’d like people to treat me in a compassionate way.

22:00

And as a result of that, when I was able to establish those values for myself, I thought this would be wonderful to have these values in my business and have that human first approach.

22:13

What happens in the criminal defence world is, you know, people think it’s, you know, innocent until proven guilty.

22:23

But the reality of the situation is that the justice system is broken.

22:28

Sometimes innocent people are found guilty and sometimes guilty people are found, you know, are acquitted of the crimes that they were charged with.

22:40

So in essence, for me, in this world ofAI and technology advancing on a day-to-day basis and the fear and the scaremongering that’s going on within the profession of what’s AI going to do.

22:56

I think whilst there’s a place for things like artificial intelligence, there’s definitely a place for human intelligence and that’s something that weforget about the human side of these cases, because let’s face it, the people that I represent are mostly professionals, people within a regulated profession, have received a letter because they’ve either been falsely accused or have made a mistake because they weren’t aware of regulation.

23:29

They’re going through the most difficult part of their lives,risking their reputation, you know, risking the license that they need to practice and in essence they need somebody that understands them.

23:47

Think about these people as if they’re a part of your family.

23:51

What if it was your brother, your mother, your father, your sister, your niece, your nephew, your best friend?

23:57

How would you deal with them?

23:58

And that’s where those values come in.

24:00

Thank you very much.

24:01

That’s so beautifully said.

24:02

And again, someone said to me very early on when just moving into business, particularly sort of B2B back then and B2C, he said, it’s not about you, it’s about them.

24:11

And I think that’s exactly what you’ve said there.

24:13

It’s about putting yourself in their shoes.

24:15

And one of the things again, in terms of getting the right people through the door, what someone taught me very early on when I was looking at my business, he said, it’s better to have a hole than an A-hole, which I know is a little bit inappropriate, but it’s so true.

24:25

Again, if you get the wrongperson into your business who’s not a part of those values, it can be more detrimental than anything that you’ve built.

24:33

So yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that with us.

24:34

So Rakiba, coming back to yourself, law often rewards perfectionism, so what mind shift has helped you lead more sustainably and how can others adopt that?

24:45

It’s back to your people again, but in this context I will say that I put myself in the position of being a servantTo the employee, not the other way around, yeah, because, but unless you’re in that those in the shoes of somebody who has to do those hard work, only then will you appreciate what it’s like.

25:08

So, if you start from the top and you’re just like dictating to people, you cannot…

25:15

you know, you cannot understand what those people are feeling.

25:18

You have to have the empathy, you have to have the feeling.

25:21

And I think that that has been the key to the success that we’ve had in the firm, Ronald Fletcher Baker.

25:28

I have, and through that I have, you know, so many careers I have made over the years.

25:36

Even, I would say, when I announced my departure from the firm, I had people coming back from 25 years, like in my LinkedIn post, people reachingto me.

25:46

So it’s not one thing.

25:48

It’s just putting yourself as being the servant to your employees and all else will learn.

25:54

Love that.

25:55

And again, it costs nothing to care and it means the world and has the biggest impact for your firm and business.

26:00

Thank you.

26:01

Sarah, coming to you, you’ve built deep roots in your local legal community.

26:05

What’s one lesson from local leadership that perhaps some of the larger law firms often overlook?

26:12

Yes, so we are a big believer in supporting local businesses, working locally, a lot of our clients are local to the office and in terms of, we do a lot of networking which again is on a local level and so I think when I’ve been setting up the business, when we’ve been looking at how we grow that business, you can find a lot of that support in those networking groups and their communities like this here today, there’s someone who can help you with whatever problem you might come across.

26:42

you know, and vice versa.

26:43

So that’s been really important to us.

26:46

And in terms of lessons, I’ve never worked for a big firm.

26:50

I don’t plan to.

26:52

I have a similar story to yourself actually.

26:54

So I started as a student, I worked my way through the business.

26:59

And so…

27:01

In terms of moving things forward, say we do support the local community because that’s something that we very much believe in.

27:07

Our clients are very important to us on the personal level and say that’s something that is very important to us as a practice.

27:15

Yeah, I know it’s so important to everyone here in attendance at the Lawyers’ Retreat as well, and I was speaking to people as I arrived today, that everyone’s happy to help one another and I’m really passionate about trying to change that narrative within the legal profession to encourage more collaboration, support andcommunity spirit because as I say I think we is greater than me.

27:33

It’s been a rich conversation so Peter coming to you to probably tie in two of the themes that has been talked about a lot and before that I’ll just remind the audience that they should be quickly writing down three words on their cue cards and picking up some pens very shortly as we look to close.

27:48

You’ve been known and still known for being trusted and delivering a personal service.

27:52

How can modern law firm owners strike the balance between innovation and human connection?

27:57

We all recognise that we rely heavilyon modern technology and basically your question is how do you make sure you don’t rely too heavily on technology?

28:11

Well I think as a principle, spelled A-L at the end, you have to make sure that you stay in contact with your client.

28:23

Remember it’s your client who pays your wages so you have tomake sure that you maintain that contact with the client.

28:35

And if you have somebody working alongside you as a colleague, you have to make sure that you and your colleague work closely together as a team.

28:44

But as the main principle with the AL, you have to make sure that you maintain that contact with the client and not allow your colleague to, as it were, overshadow you.

28:58

Yes, just remember to go back to basics and in a way kind of forget that there is technology, there is e-mail and all the other gadgets and what have you, that there is still, you know, solicitor and client.

29:17

Yep.

29:18

And ABC, always be client-centered.

29:20

And I think that just wraps up the conversation beautifully.

29:22

So it just leads me to say thank you so much to all of my panelists for joining me here live in Ibiza for a pool-sized perspective session for the Lawyers Retreat.

29:31

So a big thank you once again to the co-hosts of Kate Burt and Kirsty Papin and all of our panelists today.

29:37

But for now, from all of us on the show, over and out.

29:39

Thank you for listening to this week’s episode.

29:42

If you like the content here, why not check out our world-leading contentand collaboration of the Legally Speaking Club over on Discord.

29:52

Go to our website www.legallyspeakingpodcast.com for the link to join our community there.

29:59

Over and out.