Legally on the Move: Festival of Entrepreneurs – Tre Lowe – E03

Welcome to the Legally On the Move Festival of Entrepreneurs miniseries, recording live here from the Birmingham NEC. We’re going to be diving into some of the sharpest minds across the UK, some of the top CEO, some of the top cutting edge businesses for an exciting, fast-paced series. So stay tuned, get excited and looking forward to delivering even more from the show.

In the final episode of this miniseries, we get to speak with Tre Lowe. Tre is an entrepreneur, music producer and founder of SOBO Club. He first rose to fame as part of the UK garage scene with the iconic hit “Body Groove”, which continues to generate significant royalties today. With a background in the music industry, Tre has deep experience in copyright, royalties, and the importance of owning intellectual property. In recent years, Tre has transitioned into entrepreneurship, appearing on BBC’s The Apprentice and launching new ventures focused on community and impact. His personal journey—especially following the loss of his brother in 2020—has inspired a philosophy of living with urgency and purpose. At 50, he’s also a new father, embodying resilience, reinvention, and gratitude in both business and life. Stay tuned for the insights that he and our panel of surprise experts have to share as we say goodbye to this year’s Festival of Entrepreneurs.

So why should you be listening in?

You can hear Rob, Tre and the panel discussing:

– How to Be Fearless but Legally Smart as a Creative

– Knowing the Difference: Master Rights vs. Publishing Rights

– How to Be Wary of 360 Deals

– Streaming Royalties Are Low – Ownership Is Key

– Making It as a Founder and Co-Founder

Connect with Tre Lowe here – https://uk.linkedin.com/in/clare-moses-0904b629

Transcript

Robert Hanna 0:00

One. Welcome to the legally speaking podcast, recording live here at the festival of entrepreneurs. And I am joined by name title organisation,

Tre Lowe 0:08

Mr. Tre Lowe, and I’m the founder of S OBOclub, and most people probably know me as well from body groove mate the body Murphy, I’m actually shattered. I can’t believe I’m singing that software,

Robert Hanna 0:21

one of my favourite shoots growing up. It’s a real pleasure to actually finally be doing and what I wanted to talk to you today is because we connected on clubhouse, and it’s amazing how so many people from that era are here today.

Tre Lowe 0:33

It’s great. It’s like, it’s like a family reunion a little bit it is, and it’s

Robert Hanna 0:37

been a huge year for you in terms of all things entrepreneurial, personally, just tell us a little bit about your sort of entrepreneurial

Tre Lowe 0:44

journey. Oh, my God, this year has been crazy. I mean, probably going back to the last year or two. I mean the apprentice, which is crazy. I’ve come from the music business, ended up on BBC The Apprentice, which is amazing. It was actually, it was a crazy journey in some ways, because what proceeded that was the death of my brother in 2020 which really changed things for me. Before, if he had in the past, I probably would never have gone on a TV show. But after he passed, I looked at the world from a point of view of, I don’t know how much time I’ve got, yeah, and I really want to make a difference. And I’ve always been the biggest fan of Lord sugar. And the opportunity came up. I’m like, I’ve got to get on it. I’ve got some great business ideas, and I really want to get a chance to be able to pitch in front of the interviews, which is a scary process. And yeah, it’s been great. So I did the apprentice to see me. I got married, yes, had a child this year, and I’m 50, so you could probably see the bags under my eyes. I’ve just been going 100 miles an hour like I say, I look at life like each day is a blessing. I have no idea how long I’ve got, so I want to do as much as I can in a time that I’ve got, and my fundamental thing is I really want to make a difference in as many lives as possible. So yeah, it’s been a busy period for me, and that’s why we’re

Robert Hanna 1:55

grateful for you coming on a legal show. But I love your attitude of gratitude, and so I guess taking you back to the music industry, because we have a lot of people in and around people in and around the legal world. Listen to this. Want to talk about, like, copyrights, IP challenges you probably had back in the day when it comes to body groove, if people are thinking about releasing music now, what are some of the things they might be needing to think about to ensure that maybe they don’t make some of the mistakes you may have did

Tre Lowe 2:16

back then? Wow. I mean, our first record, actually, I want to, I want to say this. I don’t know how the world has changed, but our actual first big hit record was a brand new Monica. The boy is mine, yeah, and it was a bootleg. I can admit it now, because 27 years ago, no one’s gonna sue us. Ago. No one’s gonna sue us, but we made a tonne of money of selling it white label, something you can’t do. So the equivalent of nowadays is just put it out there, because what you will be selling is your name. So I do want to start then I know, obviously your legal channel. But I think for the creators out there, don’t let legality within reason stop your creativity. Yeah, because what happened in our case is a record label, rather than sue us, which they had a perfect right to do, ended up partnering with us because we took that track and actually made it popular and made it go back to number one, and the record label rep in the UK became one of our managers. So never be afraid to push the grain, I would say number one. But then Legally speaking, I think if you’re an artist, and it could be in any field, really, make sure that you’ve got your eyes dotted and your T’s crossed, yeah. Make sure you understand your paperwork. Make sure you’ve got a bloody good lawyer that’s advising you, because that could bite you on the bum years later. Yeah. Make sure you’ve also got a lawyer that’s pushing for you, because three points is not as good as seven points, for instance, you know. And on your own, you might think, I’m just going to sign a deal because it’s a deal. Yeah, and you might end up signing a lousy deal, a 360 deal, which, for those that know, don’t know, means that they own everything you do. In our case, back in our days, it would be like you do a separate publishing deal, separate record deal, then your merchandise, everything else you could do separately. Now they sign a lot of artists 360 which means, I don’t know anything you do if you can be independent, be independent. Try and do a distribution deal. If you’re bloody good musician or whatever creative, try and own your IPO intellectual property and licence it out rather than sell it. So in our case, body groove, we gave it to the record label, which is universal, and it seemed like a lot of money at then, but they owned that record for your whole life, plus 50 years, I believe, right, which is a long time to own something that you’ve created. So just be careful about what you’re signing legally. Make sure it really works for you 10 years from now. Robin, I need the money. I need it really right now. So I just think, be careful about what you’re signing. Yeah, get a good lawyer.

Robert Hanna 4:54

Very sage advice. And I guess, just to break it down for people then say, if body groove and Royal. Royalties in how that works. So if with what you’ve done, if body groove is played on the radio or elsewhere, now, what does that mean from a royalty perspective for you? So nothing or something,

Tre Lowe 5:09

that means a lot. My God, we get a tonne of royalty to that record. So basically, royalties are split in two. You’ve got the mechanical royalties, which the record labels, that’s the actual master the recording, and then you’ve got the publishing side of it, and they’re split in two. So in our case, the publishing is something that’s renewed every five to seven years, and Sony owns it. From the recording point of view, universal owns it, but I never think to point out actually they own that physical recording. But you can get it recorded again. You can get it recorded so faithfully to the original that to a normal person, they won’t know. But in that case, you would own the actual mechanical right, because publishing tends to be renewed and not owned forever, as the physical master side tends to be owned forever. I don’t know what the deals are nowadays, but certainly what it was in in my days. So yeah, the royalties will come from those two angles. One will be from the publishing side, ones from the master inside. The royalties are not as much as it used to be in my days, though. So say, for instance, you’re on like, body group, it’s probably streamed over 100 million across all the DSPS. Yeah. And say, from Spotify, you only get something like five grand for a million streams. Wow, which is not much. So you see what I mean when I say, if you own your copyright, you’re now getting near 100% obviously, they’re gonna get a little cut, versus, in our case, I think we own 16% of it. So you’re getting 16% of whatever that five grand is if you got a big enough record to show off your Taylor Swift. Happy Days, yeah. But nowadays, not so much, you know. So that’s, yeah, that’s how royalties works. No, really

Robert Hanna 6:33

appreciate that. And a lot of people in the legal industry are creatives themselves. And actually they have lots of things that they’re building, be it podcast channels, be it media options, whatever it might be. So it’s really good advice. Okay, now I want to talk about the apprentice, because you’ve been through that. And again, lots of lawyers or people who are legal tech entrepreneurs, people, how did you get on it? And again, you did a talk on it. Give us some top tips if people do want

Tre Lowe 6:56

So I ended up on The Apprentice because, like I said, my brother passed away, and I really wanted to make a difference. I had this idea for a shot that would impact men, that would promote testosterone, yeah, because modern men’s testosterone levels are falling off a cliff, yeah. And there are so many environmental reasons and lifestyle reasons and modern reasons why that is so I had this business idea. Anyway, my wife actually applied for the show, and something in me just said, Tre, you need to apply as well. And it’s weird, right? Because going back to body groove, if you ever watch the video for body groove, you’ll notice that me and my brother in the background, but it’s actually my brother’s voice on that track, but he didn’t want to actually be on the video, so we had to get someone in, because he refused, and then I refused because we weren’t into fame, right? But back in our days, fame wasn’t as big as it is now under the pool. So my thought, my thing was, oh my god, I’m gonna go on TV. I love the show. I love Lord sugar, one of my biggest idols, but my God, I don’t have to be on TV, but because my brother passed, I’m like, No, I now want to be on TV because of the leverage that you get. Because I am someone who wants to be a recognisable face that makes a difference. Yeah, so leverage was everything to me. So I went and auditioned, and I thought to myself, the minute they know I’ve done body groove and I can come across competent enough they’re going to be like, Oh my God. And I learned, actually later, that the producer did punch the air when I walked in, because he’s thinking, How is it a guy that did body group has walked in to the apprentice like, it doesn’t make sense. Such an iconic track, though, yeah, but it just doesn’t make sense. They’ve never had a musician on the show, right? Okay, and I’m the oldest person that’s ever been on that show, as far as I know. Not anyone talks about it, because nobody says, I look my age like age, like, black. Don’t crack. It’s one of those things. But yeah, it was just a sense of purpose. I was like, right? I need to get as many eyeballs as possible. Yeah, it’s one of my favourite shows. It’s not a typical reality TV show. As far as I could say, I see it more of as a business show than a reality TV show. And I’m like, yeah, let me go for it. And you know, luckily, I ended up all the way in the final five. But because of the short notice nature of that, I went on it, I didn’t have enough time to flesh out the business idea. So I knew I’d probably get to the finals, because I’m so bloody competitive, yeah, but I thought if I do get there, I won’t be able to win it, but the advice I’d get from the advisors would be priceless, and it really was, because everything was like, okay, the product idea that you’ve got is rubbish, but you as a person, would invest in you all day long. And I think that’s great, you know, it’s a great endorsement. You know, absolutely. And the advice I’d give to people is really go for it. Actually, okay. I’d say, go for it, but be yourself. Because some people go in there and try and be a bit performative and try be larger than life and something that they’re not because they think that’s what they see on the show. I would say, No, be yourself. Just be yourself. But. End up to dialling yourself a little bit. Yeah, don’t be a shrinking violet.

Robert Hanna 10:03

Really go for it. No, I love that. And we’re actually recording in Black History Month, and it’s something we do a lot to support. Actually, we’ve had one of the world’s first rappers and lawyers come onto the show. We’ve had some of the top presidents of the Law Society and incredible people. And we’re real allies and try to support and really encourage diversity, equity, inclusion. So I guess, from your own perspective, in terms of going through multiple industries, property, music, etc. What do you think more could be done to support black, emerging talent coming through?

Tre Lowe 10:29

I’m glad you say that right, because I also have a show on a political show, a weekly show, Saturdays, 69 I plug it on GB news. And GB news is a channel that does skew towards the right, and I’m very much centred politically and socially, and I’m glad you say that, because I think we’re now in the sort of Trump era where people are like, dei is dead and di is wrong, and people just assume if they see a black face, you’re probably not qualified. You’re only there because you’re dei higher. And I think that’s wrong. So first of all, I just want to say that I think there should be more encouragement of diversity, but with competency. Don’t just put someone in that’s not good, because they do the whole movement of this service. But I think the thing I like about diversity is here you’ve got diversity of ideas and diversity of creativity. You know, if I look at, say, our journey musically, that was an amalgamation of growing up Nigerian in a West engine neighbourhood with all of the myriad of cultures in my neighbourhood, which is not in Hill. So it’s something that diversity brings. Whether it’s ethnic diversity, religious diversity, could be gender diversity, it just it adds a richness that otherwise won’t be there, because the old world was a much more sort of male pale still, sort of where the world, and also socially, economically, much more of an Oxbridge type world where, you know, Mama and Papa and they handed it on, and you didn’t get much creativity. I mean, can you imagine Hip Hop existed in a world that was as rigid as that? Right? Yeah. And I think I love the fact you’re starting to see in all sorts of spaces, even in banking and stuff like that. So I’m really encouraging of the of the in and of itself. I just think it’s great, but as long as it’s not performative, I think there are a lot of organisations that talk about it, but don’t really do it. There are a lot of organisations now that are scaling back. Because obviously, whatever happens in America, you know, America sneezes, we catch a cold, so people are starting to dial back on and I think that’s really, really sad. And I think for people of colour or from sort of, you know, genders that are marginalised or underrepresented, like women, for instance, in the FTSE 100 not many women at CEO C suite levels, I think, really lean into being better than you even need to be. Yeah, and it sounds crazy when I say that, because I grew up in a culture, a Nigerian culture, where it was before the woke era. And I hate using that term, but for one of a better word, I didn’t have this sense of complaining because I was black or it’s not fair? Yeah, I grew up in a culture where my dad said to me, you’ve got to work three times harder because you’re black. And I think that’s becoming more true now, as people are starting to dial back and dei I think be bloody good, be as amazing as you can be. But I think do more in terms of organise more be seen more like, that’s why I’ve gone the apprentice, be known more, become so, so attractive, almost as your own personal brand, that people want to work with you. And I think that’s one of the biggest advantages of being someone of colour or someone that’s not the norm in whatever industry you you are, people remember you. Yeah, so I walk into a space I’m even here like, there’s not that many black faces. I love that. I don’t feel intimidated by it. I love it. Why? Because people gonna remember me. Of course, I think lean into that strength. Don’t lean into the fact that I’m, you know, I’m a minority, and it’s gonna be harder. I think it’s gonna be easier. Yeah, I actually think I have a massive advantage growing up with this sense of you got to work three times harder, and being fully self expressed in my self identity and very proud of it. And just, yeah, going for it. I have a crazy amount of confidence, crazy love it answers your question. So, barely any sleep. So I’m like, trying to, like, keep it all in my head. No, it’s probably been a new dad. It’s like, no sleep. And key point

Robert Hanna 13:55

about is, you know, if you’re not visible, you’re almost invisible in the world we live in. Yeah, it’s

Tre Lowe 13:59

really key. But another thing to add to that, though, Be of service, though. So when I say, Be visible, don’t do the whole ego. It’s not about you. Yeah, serve with people. So be of service. My thing, I want to be known. I don’t want to say famous, because it’s a stupid word for that concern. But I want to be known, because the more known I am, the more I can disseminate all of my ideas, and my ideas, I believe, are to make people great at what they do and who they are. And I think if you’re like that, that’s why nothing will get in my way. So I don’t care how many times I fail, because it’s not for me. I really want to make a difference. Because, like I say, after my brother died, I don’t know how long I’ve got, and I want people to remember me as Tre was that kind of person that wanted you to be your best and do well. That’s why I want to be known.

Robert Hanna 14:36

I love that. And my late grandfather, you say to me, live, respected, die, regretted. And I remember saying to people when I deliver talks, is if you want to be known, if you want to be known, create, but if you want to be trusted, educate. And so what we try and do with everything here is we’re trying to educate people, right? And you build that trust and that voice of authority, and then you can go out there and and do great things, traits, amazing, but you’ve cut across so many different industries, and you know, you’re successful entrepreneur. What are some of the traits you look for when. About business partners or employing people, or, again, people who might be thinking of going on entrepreneurial journey. What are some of the traits you look for?

Tre Lowe 15:06

I think generosity, like what I just said, it’s not about me, okay? And that’s what I loved about the the apprentice. I think even to this day, I get stopped all the time. I wasn’t expecting that. And it’s not just stopped. Like Love Island. Oh my god, you want to show it stopped. Like, Tre, you inspired me. And I love that, yeah, because I didn’t necessarily set out consciously to be let me be inspirational, because then that’s like an inauthentic house just being me, yeah, and who I am naturally someone that wants to give I want to point to other people. It doesn’t mean I don’t want to compete against you and smash the hell out of you. Of course, I want you to also be your best. So I look out for qualities of, I look out for qualities of real contribution, generosity. I like people who want to make a difference, like I’ve just been I talk a lot about Ubuntu, and a lot of people don’t know what that means, but it’s this African philosophy of, if I win, you win. And someone else said something else to me. It was a new concept, which is radical collaboration that’s here with you. Yeah, I’m not someone thinking I’m too big, or I’m doing that, or maybe you pay me what you’re going to do. Who do you think you are? My thing is, no, I think be someone that radically, radically collaborates with other people, especially when there’s congruency, right? Collaborate where you know what I want you to really win. Because even from a business point of view, people never forget that, because I always remember how you made them feel exactly, you know. So I’m a big network and one of my companies, sober club, is all about networking. People always remember that. So when you’re doing business, people always come back to you. So I look out for people who want to contribute, people who have a purpose and a vision beyond them. I love people who generally think about their contribution as what they’re going to do is going to reverberate through time. And I said that on The Apprentice, you know. And there’s no accident that me and that me and my brother ended up being musicians. Why? Because music reverberates through time. It’s the biggest contribution. You know, I’ve gone through. Can I swear on this? Or can I talk I want? Probably not. Okay. I went for a lot of shit in my life medically, and I do have a lot of different medical conditions, one of which is severe tinnitus. And one of my biggest heroes is Beethoven, because when he did the Ninth Symphony, he had to be turned around by the audience because he couldn’t even hear so even without realising, in fact, he did, because he talked about in these diaries, he always had a lot of suicidal ideation, and I’ve gone through that myself with my health. But he recognised that his contribution was bigger than him. Yeah. So there I was, what 170 years later, this young kid in Notting Hill going for the most horrendous suffering with tinnitus and other health and conditions, thinking sometimes, you know what, maybe I’ve got a jump off a building. His legacy fed into me, and without those kind of people pouring into me, I may not be here. So I love people that think about their contribution as reverberating through time. Steve Jobs is another one. I mean, all of us in our pockets, has Steve Jobs legacy. Yeah, I love that. So I like people who think beyond themselves. How am I going to actually have a positive impact in society, which is why I do the news channel that I do, because I want to impact the world. I see the way the country is going. I want to be part of that conversation, especially now, of a young son. So those traits, generosity, integrity, even things like just aliveness and alacrity, people who are like, alive, but you’ve got that, look at you in red. You’ve got everybody’s energy. Yeah, everything’s energy. I love the whole energy of people who have this positive spirit, people who are negative. I run away from them. I’m like, no, no, don’t infect me with that stuff.

Robert Hanna 18:15

that stuff. It’s, you know, you’ve got radiators or drains. Yeah, be around those radiators. Some people are

Tre Lowe 18:18

drain this. And another thing I think I showed you this, right? I think I showed you this, right? I always walk around with this, right? When I’m going to go talk Joe, I walk around with this, guess, why? Tell me. No, you tell me. Why do I walk around with a rolled up toothpaste when I’m going to speak and do an event like this? What does this signify?

Robert Hanna 18:34

You want to look on point, no excellence, no positivity.

Tre Lowe 18:40

So you know what’s weird about this, right? We have more reverence for this little tube of toothpaste than we have for our life. What does it signify? I grew up crazy poor in Notting Hill. My dad, on paper, was a very wealthy man, but in practice, he was poor because he was in property, and he never let out his property. That’s a different story from every day, right? But we used to roll up the toothpaste. Why we wanted to squeeze everything out. Most people don’t live life like this. I love that. This is my analogy of and that’s why, when people think, oh, Tre, you’ve gone from music to this, I believe in the power of reinvention. You’ve always got something left to give you. Said it earlier. I think you said about your granddad, right? Most people, they’ve done surveys off at the end of life. You know, what they regret. They regret what they didn’t do, not what they did do. So this is my reminder always to keep squeezing out every bit of talent, every bit of purpose, every bit of service. Because if we can do it for bloody toothpaste, and everyone, every morning, uses this, why do we leave so much and so many people you know, leave so much left to give I know. I start that business, then I’m going to marry that person, then I’m going to leave this bloody corporate job. Then. No, no, do it now. Squeeze everything you can. And most people are too terrified, because they’re worried about failure, maybe they’re worried about success, which was my brother’s issue. But no, I want to squeeze every single drop that I’ve got because someone listening maybe even to this podcast, just like I was inspired by Beethoven, they might be inspired by me. So. Want to keep squeezing out everything I’ve got in service of other people, and it’s so important.

Robert Hanna 20:04

I love that. And it’s not one day, it’s day one, right? It’s actually, I love that. To your point earlier about, you know, collaborating with people. We talk a lot about collaboration as domination, and actually coming together with other people, like we is greater than me, and I just love your whole mindset and mantra. So with that and supporting one another, where can people go to find out more about what you’re working on, and tell our listeners where they can find out more and support

Tre Lowe 20:25

you. So guys, you can find me at Trello, and that is on LinkedIn. Is that Tre low on Instagram? Is that Trello? I think on Facebook, it’s at Trello. And trust me, guys, I’ve got people that will look through my all of my socials, and I’ll definitely get any message that you guys send. But you can also go to sobo club.com as well and find that about our networking events and training company. And that is S, O, B O club.com and at the moment, we’ve actually got an amazing training that’s training people how to do this. It’s a speaker’s training, because most people’s biggest fear of it, and that is this holding the mic. And I really want people to get used to holding the mic and sharing their story. Because, you know, like when I was in the depths of hell, I relied on people who shared their story to keep me going. So whoever you are, you’ve got a story. There’s something you’ve got in you that’s going to inspire, perhaps even save someone’s life. Never be afraid to hold this mic and share your story. So yeah, that’s where you can find me, and that’s my company, soboclub.com,

Robert Hanna 21:20

inspirational, amazing. Cheers. Thank you so much. It’s so great to finally make you in person after all these years. Thank you for the difference you make as well. Thank you. We appreciate that. So here we have it, folks wrapping up form the legally speaking podcast live at the festival, entrepreneurs, but from Tre and the iconic body group for now, over and out.

Panel

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Good morning, everybody.

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Welcome to Day 2 festival of

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entrepreneurs. And today we are talking

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about who supports the CEO. So my

00:00:10,205 –> 00:00:12,934

name, my name is Rob Hannah. I’m

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the founder of KC Partners. We’re a

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legal talent solutions and content

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creation. I’ve also the host of the.

00:00:20,440 –> 00:00:22,038

Legally Speaking podcast, which is the

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number one podcast for law in the UK,

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ranked in the top 1% of shows in the

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world. And we’re sponsored by an

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organization called Cleo, which is a

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legal tech business for the $3 billion

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valuation. And I’m joined by a

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star-studded panel today and I’m going to

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go from left to right for some short

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introductions and then we’re going to get

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into today’s discussions. So please

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kindly. Introduce yourself.

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O’reilly’s.

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Also, umm.

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5381 people on

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their business days

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and. Thank you.

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Ohh I’m going to hit the like.

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Testing. Testing that was so good you

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could say it again. Can

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you hear me OK?My name

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is Darren O’Reilly, I’m the co-founder of

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also also is a high protein superfood

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milkshake we’ve been looking up to being.

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It’s terrible.

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Yeah, let’s go in the meantime.

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We are the world’s largest CEO

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here. Advisory and coaching business

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45,000 members politically across

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countries.

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Good morning, everyone. I’m Roger here.

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Thank you. Company

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pioneering blood flow restriction wearers

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so our products enable athletes at all

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levels to recover faster, perform better.

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We work with 300 pro sport teams across

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the world, including some of the greatest

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athletes on this planet. Off planet, we

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actually worked with NASA and SpaceX on 2

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space missions so far we’re on Polaris.

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For the last year.

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Thank you very much. Well,

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ohh. Wow.

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Well, good morning everybody. My name is

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Heba. Then I’m the CEO and founder

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for other very limited what we do.

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We have a low power wireless sensor

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network with a neuromorphic chip, which

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is AI on the chip and we

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monitor major infrastructures like

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tunnels, bridges. Anything

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that you use as basically as

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a big instructor, we actually monitor.

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So we monitor the Crossrail, Tideway,

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NTR, learned teething, Hong Kong as

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well, Australian tunnels and water names,

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Singapore jump, fly over and we

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make sure things doesn’t collapse.

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So we provide a huge amount of

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data, and that data helps engineers to

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make a decision. And it gives them

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not just data, it’s actually a prediction

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as well, how things are going during

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that construction. Third time, third

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times, the time you can hear me.

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Yeah, my name is Darren O’Reilly and I’m

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the co-founder of also also is a high

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protein superfood shake. Basically what

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our philosophy is when your foundation

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you’re strong, you’re potential is

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unlimited and that starts with nutrition.

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So we want to do is grade a

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formulation that can support people on

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their busiest days. We’ve been nominated.

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And food and drinks started for the year

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and in the short period of time where we

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shipped over 450,000 miles across the UK

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and Ireland and then to about 2800

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countries around the world. So there we

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have it folks. I’m looking after the

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bodies, to looking after bridges and

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everything in between. That’s what I love

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about events like this, such diversity of

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business interests. Interesting things we

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can learn from startup founders and

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entrepreneurs. So let’s get into it now.

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We’re gonna start from sort of solo

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founder to supported leader and come to

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you first roller judicially because you

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left the career in banking, very

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successful one to build your business.

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You’re now used by, as you mentioned,

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over 100 elite sports teams. So what was

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the first moment you realized you

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couldn’t do it alone?So I

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think from from day one, to be honest,

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actually I’m not, I’m not a solar panel

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with cofounder actually. And actually

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that’s really important. I think. So I’ve

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got so much respect for anyone who’s a

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solo founder of business because it’s so

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hard to do on your own. And one piece of

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advice would be if you are starting any

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aspiring fountain here would be to find

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cofounders. Couldn’t find your network in

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my work. Can you do people and living,

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breathing and bleeding and with you as

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well. And then from a CEO perspective, so

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it’s the way of cofounders. I’m still the

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CEO. They have different roles in that.

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Mine got very different rates of theirs

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and what you find in a kind of a high

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growth startup like Pietro where we’re

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operating in kind of blue. Make an

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environment where no one’s done what

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we’ve done before. You’re constantly

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seeing challenges and issues that you

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have no idea what to do. And so I’ll do

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another problem today, which we’ll find a

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solution for tomorrow. I’ve got to find

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that, and it’s not going to all come from

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So I really value kind of collective

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intelligence around me, and that can be

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in the core. And that could be advised,

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that could be coaches and it’s my job

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really the CEO is to run, ask, find those

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people that I can kind of leverage for

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intelligence and ask the right questions.

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Then to pull it together with expertise

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in different areas, particularly where

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and we can say for example, I have a lot

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of people in marketing PR, that’s not

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something that comes naturally to me. So

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I can leverage the expertise. And that

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would help me find solutions going

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forward. Love that and I always. We’re

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all about collaboration domination find

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those people you collaborate and do some

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better and said it yesterday we is

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greater than me. I think if we can come

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together as we’re talking about in terms

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of Co founders super powerful Rebecca

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love to come to you because you know the

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Steve sports over 45,000 plus leaders

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globally. So from your perspective, why

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do great CEO’s need strong advisory?And

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peer networks to avoid the isolation that

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700 miles to go through. And thank you.

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So it can be very lonely as a, as a CEO.

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I mean, even as a co-founder, I think you

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know, you’re, you’re out there on, on

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your own and you don’t have the answers.

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And I think really kind of great CEO’s

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have the humility to know that they have

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that growth mindset and they really want

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to go out. And seek advice and

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perspectives from a diverse group of

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peers, quite frankly. And that’s exactly

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what we do. Essentially, we bring

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together those CEO’s from non competing

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businesses and create that safe space

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where they can, you know, kind of

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strategise with other people who don’t

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have any vested interest in their

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business, quite frankly, other than just

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supporting another. Fellow leader. So

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it’s really important. It’s that sense of

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community as well. And you know, I said

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it yesterday, you’re only one connection

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away from potentially changing your life,

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maybe your business, maybe your

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aspiration. They can unlock that piece of

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gold with Darren I was talking about

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actually before coming on stage. But I’m

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coming to you and as a former sort of

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very successful professional rugby player

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turned co-founder. What parallels do you

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see between leading a support team on the

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pitch and as building senior, as building

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your business, basically? Yeah, it’s a

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great question. I think the parallels are

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massive. So I’ve been fortunate enough to

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be kind of coached and managed by some of

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the best coaches around. And so like some

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like Turkey, Joe Smith, Mike brought up.

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OK, but they always feared would bring in

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outside support to give examples of

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teamwork. And then like any great team,

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no one individual wins. You all win

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collectively or you all lose

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collectively. So when we look at building

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culture and like the word culture has

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banded around a lot, particularly in

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startups. What you really want to be able

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to do iron the right behavior programs.

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You understand what intrinsically

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motivates people to be the best version

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of themselves. So for example, some

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people are really motivated by the

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flexibility of time. So if they’re a

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young family, you’ve been able to come in

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a little later to the office or leave a

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little earlier, but logged on and maybe

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do that work. Other people

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all around money, other people if they’re

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around promotion and being able to do

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that. So if you understand what motivates

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individuals and then give them the

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freedom to run whatever area their

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business lives, like what you said,

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right? So certain areas of business, I’m

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definitely not the right person to be

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doing it. You need to be able to give

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people freedom and motivation to be able

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to take complete ownership and that’s how

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you build the right team around you and

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also the right environment and it shows

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that you genuinely care. I think they’re

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not just a number, they’re a person and

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they change. So from my own perspective,

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having a legal head hunting business, we

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don’t say we place somebody once, we

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place them for life and maybe when they

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first start they are interested in them.

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And maybe they are prepared to leave the

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house, maybe family life comes along and

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they’re looking for a little bit more

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flexibility. And as an organization, if

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people stay with me, you need to

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understand that their priority shifts.

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They’re getting home for bath time is

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their top priority actually at the moment

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versus maybe what’s on the the dial. And

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that improves retention. It just improves

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the overall culture. It’s just the win,

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win all round. OK here, but as. Again, a

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founder yourself, when did you realize

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you needed help Well, I wish actually

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somebody in the trash told me that that

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you need another family because I am a

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sole founder and I founded the business

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12 years ago but I was very fortunate

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you know from the age of 18 as

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an engineer actually worked in. Another

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company. Which

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is very successful in terms

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of chip design and design

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and work we amazing engineers

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throughout to actually help an

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architect what politics which people

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use us today in their

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films and I think that

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the. Major things for me is always

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we needed people to connect and people to

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advise us and to lead us in certain

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way. And it doesn’t matter from your

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family wishes, they probably don’t

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understand where exactly what you’re

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doing to people around you. But somebody

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is like Tudor Brown, which is the brand

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of the arm. And

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he advised me on regular

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basis professors that during the

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universities that I worked with

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like Andy Terrell and as

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well David Cardwell and David

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Howard, it’s like they’ve been

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really, really there for me

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when. Have some technical

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challenges and need a certain

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people in the company from

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technicality and St. You

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look for as, as you said, this

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is basically where the holes where the

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labs and you’re trying to put a

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really good team around you to help

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out in strategy. Decisions and

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critical decisions and when you take it

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and I’ll say I always hire people

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who are better than me and they

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understand things that I don’t understand

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because you and you need to really

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versatile of different people around you.

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So your team is. Is it 4?

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And having the right team is is a crucial

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Yeah. And that leads nicely onto the the

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next part of of the discussion, which is

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the right kind of support because advice

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is great, but bad advice is actually

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devastating for you. And I’m talking from

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experience. And I say specific is

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terrific. So Raj at Pietro and, you know,

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scientific rigor. Credibility absolutely

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key to what you’re about. So how do you

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choose the right advisors and experts to

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support you that’s going yeah. So I think

305

00:11:46,589 –> 00:11:47,985

again, it’s about point about

306

00:11:47,985 –> 00:11:49,939

understanding the gaps that you have in

307

00:11:49,939 –> 00:11:51,894

your you’re kind of your own knowledge,

308

00:11:51,894 –> 00:11:53,848

but also finding the right people’s often

309

00:11:53,848 –> 00:11:56,361

like as it is, the hiring is kind of

310

00:11:56,361 –> 00:11:58,315

fraught with difficulty as well. And one

311

00:11:58,315 –> 00:12:00,568

of the things that we do. Firstly, look

312

00:12:00,568 –> 00:12:02,243

to our own network for the relevant

313

00:12:02,243 –> 00:12:03,918

individuals. So we have kind of referral

314

00:12:03,918 –> 00:12:06,310

to that. And then what we’d like to do a

315

00:12:06,310 –> 00:12:08,224

hike over also almost try before we buy.

316

00:12:08,224 –> 00:12:10,377

So can you work with them for a short

317

00:12:10,377 –> 00:12:12,291

period of time, see how they fit in?

318

00:12:12,291 –> 00:12:14,205

Because lots of people come to start up,

319

00:12:14,205 –> 00:12:15,401

especially when you’re here because

320

00:12:15,401 –> 00:12:17,315

you’re high growth saying we can take you

321

00:12:17,315 –> 00:12:19,708

to the next level, we can do this and you

322

00:12:19,708 –> 00:12:21,861

know we want 1% of the business and like

323

00:12:21,861 –> 00:12:23,594

you. Don’t know what outcomes gonna come

324

00:12:23,594 –> 00:12:25,492

from working with them. So we often like

325

00:12:25,492 –> 00:12:27,390

to have a period of time we’re working

326

00:12:27,390 –> 00:12:29,051

together before we commit to a longer

327

00:12:29,051 –> 00:12:30,237

term relationship. And actually what

328

00:12:30,237 –> 00:12:32,373

we’ve seen is a lot of our advisors are

329

00:12:32,373 –> 00:12:34,271

start off as investors, took a great way

330

00:12:34,271 –> 00:12:35,932

to start as well. So they’ve actually

331

00:12:35,932 –> 00:12:37,593

really believed in what we’re doing. They

332

00:12:37,593 –> 00:12:39,491

put money into the business. We then work

333

00:12:39,491 –> 00:12:41,626

with them for a bit and actually like our

334

00:12:41,626 –> 00:12:43,449

Chief strategy officer at the moment. You

335

00:12:43,449 –> 00:12:45,193

started just an investor and that’s a

336

00:12:45,193 –> 00:12:47,186

great way to go. You know, they’ve got

337

00:12:47,186 –> 00:12:49,428

skate skin in the game and when it’s the

338

00:12:49,428 –> 00:12:51,172

bad times, they still care. You know,

339

00:12:51,172 –> 00:12:52,667

they don’t go running because they’re

340

00:12:52,667 –> 00:12:54,411

invested in it. And I think that’s

341

00:12:54,411 –> 00:12:55,906

important for stability as well. OK,

342

00:12:55,906 –> 00:12:57,401

Rebecca coming to you, You’ve launched

343

00:12:57,401 –> 00:12:59,145

the scale. Tons of brand is very

344

00:12:59,145 –> 00:13:00,390

successful, cheaper now. Obviously I

345

00:13:00,390 –> 00:13:02,134

saved this stage. How should CEO’s go

346

00:13:02,134 –> 00:13:03,774

about thinking building Advisory Board?Or

347

00:13:03,774 –> 00:13:05,392

indeed leadership team that truly

348

00:13:05,392 –> 00:13:07,658

challenges rather than being just a yes

349

00:13:07,658 –> 00:13:10,248

yeah, I I think it’s so important because

350

00:13:10,248 –> 00:13:12,838

you don’t want to create an echo chamber

351

00:13:12,838 –> 00:13:15,104

and just people that are validating your

352

00:13:15,104 –> 00:13:17,370

own thoughts. And you know, KPMG did

353

00:13:17,370 –> 00:13:19,635

study 20 years ago now that actually

354

00:13:19,635 –> 00:13:21,578

diversity brings higher performance in in

355

00:13:21,578 –> 00:13:23,886

teams. So you didn’t want to. Giving

356

00:13:23,886 –> 00:13:25,891

people that compliment you and that will

357

00:13:25,891 –> 00:13:27,896

challenge because like you say, you know

358

00:13:27,896 –> 00:13:30,188

you don’t want to just keep doing the

359

00:13:30,188 –> 00:13:32,192

things that you’re doing. You have to

360

00:13:32,192 –> 00:13:34,197

think outside the box. Business is moving

361

00:13:34,197 –> 00:13:36,775

so quickly today and you know the pace of

362

00:13:36,775 –> 00:13:38,494

innovation and change. You need that

363

00:13:38,494 –> 00:13:41,313

challenge. And nothing changes if

364

00:13:41,313 –> 00:13:43,016

nothing changes, and I’ve seen it time

365

00:13:43,016 –> 00:13:44,963

and time again, people can’t get the same

366

00:13:44,963 –> 00:13:46,909

result or they keep agreeing on the same

367

00:13:46,909 –> 00:13:48,855

principles as we need to bring in that

368

00:13:48,855 –> 00:13:50,558

new energy that probably are going to,

369

00:13:50,558 –> 00:13:52,261

you know, provide feedback, even if it’s

370

00:13:52,261 –> 00:13:53,964

from a negative or constructive way. And

371

00:13:53,964 –> 00:13:55,911

you need to find a way of actually

372

00:13:55,911 –> 00:13:57,614

utilizing that fuel it to take the

373

00:13:57,614 –> 00:13:59,074

business forward and forward. So Darren,

374

00:13:59,074 –> 00:14:01,020

coming back to you, why is it important?

375

00:14:01,110 –> 00:14:03,210

People outside of your business who

376

00:14:03,210 –> 00:14:05,310

challenge you from a leadership and

377

00:14:05,310 –> 00:14:07,060

actually the direction you’re thinking,

378

00:14:07,060 –> 00:14:08,810

ohh, look, it’s critically important

379

00:14:08,810 –> 00:14:10,560

because look, everybody can strategize

380

00:14:10,560 –> 00:14:12,660

internally, but sometimes, you know, you

381

00:14:12,660 –> 00:14:15,460

need to be able to see the wood

382

00:14:15,460 –> 00:14:17,560

from trees and for like garage

383

00:14:17,560 –> 00:14:19,660

deployment, we’ve been fortunate to bring

384

00:14:19,660 –> 00:14:22,179

on some really good. Board advisors as

385

00:14:22,179 –> 00:14:24,277

well as investors. So wouldn’t more

386

00:14:24,277 –> 00:14:26,025

notable people, something called frankly

387

00:14:26,025 –> 00:14:28,822

Clr and Mark had a 10 billion market

388

00:14:28,822 –> 00:14:31,620

cap net taken on Nas in the US.

389

00:14:31,620 –> 00:14:34,417

But the reason why I really wanted Frank

390

00:14:34,417 –> 00:14:36,864

involved in business, which one is the

391

00:14:36,864 –> 00:14:39,312

killer? He knows exactly what he wants

392

00:14:39,312 –> 00:14:42,242

and how he wants to go. We

393

00:14:42,242 –> 00:14:44,566

also have a scale building. He’s managed

394

00:14:44,566 –> 00:14:46,890

organizational up to four or five 6000

395

00:14:46,890 –> 00:14:49,546

people were in league team. Like when I

396

00:14:49,546 –> 00:14:51,870

say lead, we’re really lean. But he’s

397

00:14:51,870 –> 00:14:54,526

also able to help bridge the gap from

398

00:14:54,526 –> 00:14:56,186

uncertainty to certainty pretty quickly

399

00:14:56,186 –> 00:14:58,178

because he’s seen where other businesses

400

00:14:58,178 –> 00:15:00,170

have made that mistake. We’re extremely

401

00:15:00,170 –> 00:15:02,548

fortunate to have somebody like. In the

402

00:15:02,548 –> 00:15:04,461

business, but I would really encourage

403

00:15:04,461 –> 00:15:06,694

everybody in the room if you’re looking

404

00:15:06,694 –> 00:15:09,245

for support use your network reach out to

405

00:15:09,245 –> 00:15:11,477

people who called outreach to try and

406

00:15:11,477 –> 00:15:13,710

that’s how we are engaged and started.

407

00:15:13,710 –> 00:15:15,942

Then I introduced her to another person

408

00:15:15,942 –> 00:15:18,812

on our board and I’m the main thing is

409

00:15:18,812 –> 00:15:21,363

be coachable would be able to listen to

410

00:15:21,363 –> 00:15:22,924

what these seasoned. Entrepreneurs, CEO’s

411

00:15:22,924 –> 00:15:24,654

are able to advise you, unless you’re

412

00:15:24,654 –> 00:15:26,383

going to be coachable, there’s no point

413

00:15:26,383 –> 00:15:28,360

in having them. So like it’s a double

414

00:15:28,360 –> 00:15:30,336

edged sword. You want the man, you want

415

00:15:30,336 –> 00:15:32,066

their investment, you out there guys, But

416

00:15:32,066 –> 00:15:34,290

if you don’t listen to it, it’s a waste

417

00:15:34,290 –> 00:15:36,760

of time as well. So you’ve got to be open

418

00:15:36,760 –> 00:15:38,737

to being coached. And I think that’s the

419

00:15:38,737 –> 00:15:40,466

big thing that frankly, it’s about our

420

00:15:40,466 –> 00:15:42,196

business and it’s, it’s so true because

421

00:15:42,196 –> 00:15:44,449

you almost. Drop your ego, you know, be

422

00:15:44,449 –> 00:15:46,092

humbled and be open to being humbled

423

00:15:46,092 –> 00:15:47,970

because of the reason you want them in

424

00:15:47,970 –> 00:15:49,613

the room for that expertise and wisdom

425

00:15:49,613 –> 00:15:51,257

and all these buzzwords. But the reality

426

00:15:51,257 –> 00:15:53,135

is they’ve been there, done that and they

427

00:15:53,135 –> 00:15:54,778

can fast getting so much, they’re faster

428

00:15:54,778 –> 00:15:56,656

and so much quicker and smarter way. So

429

00:15:56,656 –> 00:15:58,065

really great point. Thanks for sharing

430

00:15:58,065 –> 00:16:00,178

that he was coming back to you. How did

431

00:16:00,178 –> 00:16:02,056

you choose? You mentioned a lot of people

432

00:16:02,056 –> 00:16:04,078

earlier, hugely successful. How did you

433

00:16:04,078 –> 00:16:06,434

choose the advisors and structures that

434

00:16:06,434 –> 00:16:09,183

gave up to bury the strongest foundation?

435

00:16:09,183 –> 00:16:11,932

So that’s a very easy right now

436

00:16:11,932 –> 00:16:14,681

we are at 12 years and our

437

00:16:14,681 –> 00:16:17,430

advisors as well, they do change over

438

00:16:17,430 –> 00:16:20,178

the the period because at different stage

439

00:16:20,178 –> 00:16:22,927

of the business you need different people

440

00:16:22,927 –> 00:16:25,783

and. Sometimes I’m going to

441

00:16:25,783 –> 00:16:28,562

go slightly kind of differently.

442

00:16:28,562 –> 00:16:31,342

One thing, sometimes you have

443

00:16:31,342 –> 00:16:34,121

to swell and trust your

444

00:16:34,121 –> 00:16:36,900

instincts and challenge the advisors.

445

00:16:36,900 –> 00:16:39,679

And I remember when we

446

00:16:39,679 –> 00:16:42,458

bought our factory in Lee

447

00:16:42,458 –> 00:16:45,320

and during. Just some

448

00:16:45,320 –> 00:16:48,260

and I had to go all the

449

00:16:48,260 –> 00:16:51,200

way to find the right place at

450

00:16:51,200 –> 00:16:54,140

that time when everybody said ohh, this

451

00:16:54,140 –> 00:16:57,080

is a bigger problem. It’s a it’s

452

00:16:57,080 –> 00:17:00,020

a very risky because buildings now all

453

00:17:00,020 –> 00:17:02,960

empty. How this is going to scale?

454

00:17:02,960 –> 00:17:05,750

It was actually. Very crucial for us.

455

00:17:07,510 –> 00:17:10,165

I didn’t get too much support at

456

00:17:10,165 –> 00:17:12,821

that time, but in a scene in

457

00:17:12,821 –> 00:17:15,476

time, I said challenge me. It’s it’s

458

00:17:15,476 –> 00:17:18,132

the time. If we don’t do it,

459

00:17:18,132 –> 00:17:20,787

we can’t scale. We can’t go bigger.

460

00:17:20,787 –> 00:17:23,443

We have huge amount of challenges as

461

00:17:23,443 –> 00:17:26,353

a scale up to. Adapt

462

00:17:26,353 –> 00:17:28,653

the technology and move on and

463

00:17:28,653 –> 00:17:31,336

productions. So we’re trying to do that

464

00:17:31,336 –> 00:17:34,019

and right now it’s an opportunity for

465

00:17:34,019 –> 00:17:36,702

us to have an amazing building. It’s

466

00:17:36,702 –> 00:17:39,384

it’s 1886, used to be factory in

467

00:17:39,384 –> 00:17:42,067

Leeds and it’s right in the heart

468

00:17:42,067 –> 00:17:44,750

of the city, 2 minutes walk from

469

00:17:44,750 –> 00:17:47,635

the train station. We can get things

470

00:17:47,635 –> 00:17:49,988

across to delegates within two hours and

471

00:17:49,988 –> 00:17:52,678

you are from door to door and it’s

472

00:17:52,678 –> 00:17:55,367

a great things. We were like OK, we

473

00:17:55,367 –> 00:17:58,057

are in the right place, we are very

474

00:17:58,057 –> 00:18:00,410

good universities. We can actually see it

475

00:18:00,410 –> 00:18:03,100

as a home for us. So the support

476

00:18:03,100 –> 00:18:05,789

then, OK, what is the challenges, how the

477

00:18:05,789 –> 00:18:08,669

challenge is going to be?How the advisors

478

00:18:08,669 –> 00:18:11,306

looked in there and they listen to my

479

00:18:11,306 –> 00:18:13,944

opinion and that time and then they said,

480

00:18:13,944 –> 00:18:16,581

OK, we’re going to have a really hard

481

00:18:16,581 –> 00:18:19,219

time just get off the business because a

482

00:18:19,219 –> 00:18:22,186

huge amount of money is going to go to

483

00:18:22,186 –> 00:18:24,493

one part of it, which is the

484

00:18:24,493 –> 00:18:26,471

manufacturing, which is this it didn’t

485

00:18:26,471 –> 00:18:29,254

have and we just. Have a huge amount

486

00:18:29,254 –> 00:18:32,041

of stands for that especially I would say

487

00:18:32,041 –> 00:18:34,828

in the UK you really need to look

488

00:18:34,828 –> 00:18:37,267

in as manufacturing in in different ways

489

00:18:37,267 –> 00:18:40,055

so and sometimes and it did work and

490

00:18:40,055 –> 00:18:41,100

I think we.

491

00:18:42,1000 –> 00:18:45,576

Trusting your instincts, sometimes it’s a

492

00:18:45,576 –> 00:18:48,152

really helps as well. Yeah, it’s

493

00:18:48,152 –> 00:18:50,728

a challenge to challenge these people

494

00:18:50,728 –> 00:18:53,304

who are surrounding you, but it’s

495

00:18:53,304 –> 00:18:55,880

during that time it’s like you’re

496

00:18:55,880 –> 00:18:58,456

thinking who can help with recruitment.

497

00:18:58,456 –> 00:19:01,032

So we’ve got somebody who is

498

00:19:01,032 –> 00:19:02,320

very experienced and.

499

00:19:03,740 –> 00:19:06,563

And they actually managed to get

500

00:19:06,563 –> 00:19:09,386

a really key person. And during

501

00:19:09,386 –> 00:19:12,209

that time we worked with other

502

00:19:12,209 –> 00:19:15,032

people on strategic, some of my

503

00:19:15,032 –> 00:19:17,855

ex colleagues in arms, I called

504

00:19:17,855 –> 00:19:20,678

them. And it’s like, OK, we

505

00:19:20,678 –> 00:19:23,641

need that part. Of the business and

506

00:19:23,641 –> 00:19:25,813

that strategy to go in to different

507

00:19:25,813 –> 00:19:27,986

markets because we are expanding in the

508

00:19:27,986 –> 00:19:30,468

belief we’re expanding in the US so how

509

00:19:30,468 –> 00:19:32,640

can we tackle these areas and that

510

00:19:32,640 –> 00:19:35,123

experience as well as comes in from these

511

00:19:35,123 –> 00:19:36,985

advisers which is important. Yeah, no,

512

00:19:36,985 –> 00:19:39,467

you’re right it is right to challenge and

513

00:19:39,467 –> 00:19:42,260

leads alumni here so I’m sold on lead so.

514

00:19:42,610 –> 00:19:44,353

It’s over there again, mentor said to be

515

00:19:44,353 –> 00:19:46,314

very early on. If it’s meant to be, it’s

516

00:19:46,314 –> 00:19:48,057

up to me. Sometimes you have to take

517

00:19:48,057 –> 00:19:49,147

responsibility if you’re gonna challenge

518

00:19:49,147 –> 00:19:50,890

and you know these people that have come

519

00:19:50,890 –> 00:19:52,415

in and and and back yourself. But

520

00:19:52,415 –> 00:19:53,941

equally, if there are people that have

521

00:19:53,941 –> 00:19:55,248

got sound advice, you know, make

522

00:19:55,248 –> 00:19:56,555

reasonable decisions. OK, We’re going to

523

00:19:56,555 –> 00:19:58,298

go from 3rd and final part of the

524

00:19:58,298 –> 00:20:00,042

session. If we do have time, we’re a

525

00:20:00,042 –> 00:20:02,003

little bit time. We will try and take a

526

00:20:02,003 –> 00:20:03,671

couple of questions at the end. That

527

00:20:03,671 –> 00:20:05,708

there is something burning. Please do try

528

00:20:05,708 –> 00:20:08,036

and get them ready. I’m gonna go to

529

00:20:08,036 –> 00:20:09,491

leading with purpose while staying

530

00:20:09,491 –> 00:20:11,819

supported and Raj back to you now and

531

00:20:11,819 –> 00:20:14,148

start up some really a straight path. I

532

00:20:14,148 –> 00:20:16,185

think it’s something like that. How do

533

00:20:16,185 –> 00:20:18,222

you stay resilient as a leader while

534

00:20:18,222 –> 00:20:19,968

balancing the weight of expectations from

535

00:20:19,968 –> 00:20:21,714

your teams, customers and as you

536

00:20:21,714 –> 00:20:23,460

mentioned investors here. So I think.

537

00:20:23,900 –> 00:20:25,889

Yes, perfect resilience and probably I’d

538

00:20:25,889 –> 00:20:28,209

say consistency or two. The absolute must

539

00:20:28,209 –> 00:20:30,861

have trade founders. If you can’t take a

540

00:20:30,861 –> 00:20:33,513

no rejection, don’t be a founder. You get

541

00:20:33,513 –> 00:20:36,165

that time and time again in the funding

542

00:20:36,165 –> 00:20:38,486

journey and I think that’s again where

543

00:20:38,486 –> 00:20:40,806

your team comes around and the people

544

00:20:40,806 –> 00:20:43,790

advise us so we can rely on and lean.

545

00:20:43,880 –> 00:20:45,709

When people around you, so like getting

546

00:20:45,709 –> 00:20:47,277

investors, for example, is a really

547

00:20:47,277 –> 00:20:49,106

important part of the journey and having

548

00:20:49,106 –> 00:20:50,674

a good relationship with investors is

549

00:20:50,674 –> 00:20:53,025

critical to it. So we can come to them

550

00:20:53,025 –> 00:20:54,855

with problems when we have tough moments.

551

00:20:54,855 –> 00:20:57,206

And the same with the core team as well.

552

00:20:57,206 –> 00:20:59,558

Do you want to have people you can lean

553

00:20:59,558 –> 00:21:01,648

on so that you’ve supported at all times?

554

00:21:01,648 –> 00:21:03,739

And I think that’s the thing that gets

555

00:21:03,739 –> 00:21:05,885

you. Through it as well. So it’s it’s,

556

00:21:05,885 –> 00:21:07,431

you’re absolutely right. It’s never, it’s

557

00:21:07,431 –> 00:21:09,236

never linear. It’s always up and down.

558

00:21:09,236 –> 00:21:11,040

You have different problems. And if you

559

00:21:11,040 –> 00:21:12,329

have that network, that collective

560

00:21:12,329 –> 00:21:13,618

intelligence they’re talking about that

561

00:21:13,618 –> 00:21:15,423

will help you get through those those

562

00:21:15,423 –> 00:21:16,712

difficult moments. Yeah, there’s cliches.

563

00:21:16,712 –> 00:21:18,516

It sounds tough times don’t last, but

564

00:21:18,516 –> 00:21:20,579

tough people do, right? And I think if

565

00:21:20,579 –> 00:21:22,383

you can get through those moments, it’s

566

00:21:22,383 –> 00:21:24,393

beautiful on on the other side. Care

567

00:21:24,393 –> 00:21:26,516

about coming to you now because you’re

568

00:21:26,516 –> 00:21:28,031

very passionate about diversity and

569

00:21:28,031 –> 00:21:29,851

inclusive leadership. How can CEO’s lean

570

00:21:29,851 –> 00:21:31,973

on communities and networks to help them

571

00:21:31,973 –> 00:21:33,792

grow as authentic purpose driven leaders?

572

00:21:33,792 –> 00:21:35,914

Yeah, I think it’s such an important

573

00:21:35,914 –> 00:21:37,733

question. It’s so interesting because I

574

00:21:37,733 –> 00:21:39,553

think we were having this conversation,

575

00:21:39,553 –> 00:21:41,978

you know, 20 and 10 years ago, authentic

576

00:21:41,978 –> 00:21:43,797

leadership was, you know, wasn’t, wasn’t

577

00:21:43,797 –> 00:21:46,788

the kind of thing. So, so for

578

00:21:46,788 –> 00:21:48,942

me, it’s about if you’re gonna show up

579

00:21:48,942 –> 00:21:50,558

with purpose and authenticity, it’s about

580

00:21:50,558 –> 00:21:52,713

how do you connect and how are you

581

00:21:52,713 –> 00:21:54,598

showing up vulnerably? And I think that’s

582

00:21:54,598 –> 00:21:56,753

really important for your team to kind of

583

00:21:56,753 –> 00:21:58,099

like see that vulnerability because

584

00:21:58,099 –> 00:22:00,254

that’s really where the kind of like the

585

00:22:00,254 –> 00:22:02,139

magic happens and you build trust with

586

00:22:02,139 –> 00:22:04,293

the team. You make sure that you know,

587

00:22:04,293 –> 00:22:06,245

you’re, you know, you’re not. Come across

588

00:22:06,245 –> 00:22:08,010

as though you’re, you know, you know

589

00:22:08,010 –> 00:22:09,524

everything, but it’s garnering that kind

590

00:22:09,524 –> 00:22:10,785

of community and that support

591

00:22:10,785 –> 00:22:12,299

essentially. So. And of course you’ve

592

00:22:12,299 –> 00:22:14,065

gotta be very passionate as a founder

593

00:22:14,065 –> 00:22:16,083

with, you know, what the purpose is of

594

00:22:16,083 –> 00:22:18,101

what you’re doing. And so I think that’s

595

00:22:18,101 –> 00:22:19,362

critical. Yeah. And they’re really,

596

00:22:19,362 –> 00:22:21,632

really well said. And you do have to be

597

00:22:21,632 –> 00:22:23,146

passionate. You generally have to believe

598

00:22:23,146 –> 00:22:24,912

because otherwise it will consume and you

599

00:22:24,912 –> 00:22:26,678

probably will give up. So I absolutely

600

00:22:26,678 –> 00:22:28,427

want. Some background, OK, Darren, coming

601

00:22:28,427 –> 00:22:30,102

back to you, because sustainability is

602

00:22:30,102 –> 00:22:32,058

central to your business and brands. So

603

00:22:32,058 –> 00:22:34,572

how do you lean on your team and advise

604

00:22:34,572 –> 00:22:36,247

to ensure your purpose is delivered

605

00:22:36,247 –> 00:22:37,923

authentically and not just as marketing?

606

00:22:37,923 –> 00:22:40,437

So a lot of people just Chuck it out

607

00:22:40,437 –> 00:22:42,392

there and don’t actually live by those

608

00:22:42,392 –> 00:22:44,906

values. Yeah, look, it’s, it is a lot of

609

00:22:44,906 –> 00:22:46,303

marketing people unfortunately do that.

610

00:22:46,303 –> 00:22:48,986

We’re on a journey. From a certified B

611

00:22:48,986 –> 00:22:51,457

Corp so that’s one that’s one way of

612

00:22:51,457 –> 00:22:53,311

proving that we’re actually standing up

613

00:22:53,311 –> 00:22:55,473

for the worries that we we’re holding

614

00:22:55,473 –> 00:22:57,018

ourselves accountable internally. We have

615

00:22:57,018 –> 00:22:59,798

a number of values that you know some of

616

00:22:59,798 –> 00:23:01,343

them are around transparency, honesty

617

00:23:01,343 –> 00:23:04,123

heavy speak to her husband how we try to

618

00:23:04,123 –> 00:23:05,976

educate our customers to generate the

619

00:23:05,976 –> 00:23:07,521

businesses keep reverting back so

620

00:23:07,521 –> 00:23:09,356

ultimately. Therefore, you need to be

621

00:23:09,356 –> 00:23:11,654

able to have a certain set of values

622

00:23:11,654 –> 00:23:13,090

around sustainability, but also the

623

00:23:13,090 –> 00:23:15,388

purpose of of how you’re going to drive

624

00:23:15,388 –> 00:23:17,399

your business. And if you’re able to

625

00:23:17,399 –> 00:23:19,697

continue to go back to that, then you’re

626

00:23:19,697 –> 00:23:20,846

holding yourself responsible. And

627

00:23:20,846 –> 00:23:22,857

everybody in the team kind of understands

628

00:23:22,857 –> 00:23:25,729

and signs up for the same values as we do

629

00:23:25,729 –> 00:23:27,453

as a final leadership team, but

630

00:23:27,453 –> 00:23:29,403

hopefully. You’ve gone there before

631

00:23:29,403 –> 00:23:31,611

processes along 1 and it’s complicated,

632

00:23:31,611 –> 00:23:33,452

very, very complicated, but it’s

633

00:23:33,452 –> 00:23:35,293

definitely stressing our, uh, our

634

00:23:35,293 –> 00:23:38,238

processes and how we even view our supply

635

00:23:38,238 –> 00:23:41,183

chain, how we deliver our product, how we

636

00:23:41,183 –> 00:23:43,392

hold ourselves accountable. So that’s one

637

00:23:43,392 –> 00:23:46,337

of the ways. And then again, having core

638

00:23:46,337 –> 00:23:48,655

set of values internally. That we signed

639

00:23:48,655 –> 00:23:50,561

up to do something. Yeah. And it’s it’s

640

00:23:50,561 –> 00:23:51,990

actions and it shows credibility. Just

641

00:23:51,990 –> 00:23:53,658

out of interest, has anyone been through

642

00:23:53,658 –> 00:23:55,564

the court process or also going on that

643

00:23:55,564 –> 00:23:57,231

similar journey in the audience at all?

644

00:23:57,231 –> 00:23:58,661

Has anyone thought about it? Interesting.

645

00:23:58,661 –> 00:24:00,328

OK, good stuff. All right, so final

646

00:24:00,328 –> 00:24:01,996

question, David, I’ll come to you. And

647

00:24:01,996 –> 00:24:04,378

then if we say we do have time, we’ll try

648

00:24:04,378 –> 00:24:06,046

and do maybe one or two questions

649

00:24:06,046 –> 00:24:08,190

depending how we get on as one of the.

650

00:24:08,260 –> 00:24:11,014

Few women leading in the space of AI

651

00:24:11,014 –> 00:24:13,424

and Internet of Things. How have networks

652

00:24:13,424 –> 00:24:15,490

helped you stay resolute and purpose

653

00:24:15,490 –> 00:24:17,556

driven people. Well, I think without

654

00:24:17,556 –> 00:24:19,966

network people and build a business, that

655

00:24:19,966 –> 00:24:22,376

is definitely the case and you’re trying

656

00:24:22,376 –> 00:24:22,720

to.

657

00:24:25,410 –> 00:24:28,035

I wouldn’t say you you’re trying

658

00:24:28,035 –> 00:24:30,659

to kind of join the dots

659

00:24:30,659 –> 00:24:33,284

of these network and how they

660

00:24:33,284 –> 00:24:35,909

can shape certain things that you

661

00:24:35,909 –> 00:24:38,533

want to to do with the

662

00:24:38,533 –> 00:24:41,158

business in terms of scaling or

663

00:24:41,158 –> 00:24:43,783

going to different markets or doing

664

00:24:43,783 –> 00:24:46,496

something. Totally out of the ordinary

665

00:24:46,496 –> 00:24:49,084

so and I think never. I

666

00:24:49,084 –> 00:24:51,240

never thought of it as.

667

00:24:53,320 –> 00:24:55,660

And there alone, however, the stars.

668

00:24:57,170 –> 00:24:59,916

And what we see right

669

00:24:59,916 –> 00:25:02,662

now, only about 2% of

670

00:25:02,662 –> 00:25:05,407

female business founded businesses they

671

00:25:05,407 –> 00:25:08,153

got invested in in the

672

00:25:08,153 –> 00:25:10,899

If the same foundation

673

00:25:10,899 –> 00:25:13,645

and investment for female founders

674

00:25:13,645 –> 00:25:16,391

or businesses led by female

675

00:25:16,391 –> 00:25:19,144

Counterparties mills and we

676

00:25:19,144 –> 00:25:21,759

actually would have brought in about two

677

00:25:21,759 –> 00:25:24,373

to £3,000,000 into our economy. So this

678

00:25:24,373 –> 00:25:26,988

is there are actually massive stars in

679

00:25:26,988 –> 00:25:29,976

that how can we how can we utilize

680

00:25:29,976 –> 00:25:32,591

that we need to think about it

681

00:25:32,591 –> 00:25:34,832

economically. It doesn’t matter we make

682

00:25:34,832 –> 00:25:37,820

half of the population and I is used.

683

00:25:37,930 –> 00:25:40,854

Let’s just play now by emails as

684

00:25:40,854 –> 00:25:43,779

well. So being an engineer, I love

685

00:25:43,779 –> 00:25:46,285

enginuity, I love technical things, I

686

00:25:46,285 –> 00:25:49,209

love building things and I think like

687

00:25:49,209 –> 00:25:52,134

a mother of a girl who loved

688

00:25:52,134 –> 00:25:54,640

doing technical things. I think it’s

689

00:25:54,640 –> 00:25:57,147

really encouraging the other open minded

690

00:25:57,147 –> 00:25:58,400

and people actually.

691

00:26:01,030 –> 00:26:02,893

And we can see from the university

692

00:26:02,893 –> 00:26:04,757

numbers, there are more females going in

693

00:26:04,757 –> 00:26:06,088

into these technical, technical positions

694

00:26:06,088 –> 00:26:08,218

as well. Yeah. And absolutely we we can

695

00:26:08,218 –> 00:26:09,815

fully support that. And what an

696

00:26:09,815 –> 00:26:11,678

incredible panel. And what I love about

697

00:26:11,678 –> 00:26:13,276

moderating things, I always take away

698

00:26:13,276 –> 00:26:15,139

lessons and learnings as well. One thing

699

00:26:15,139 –> 00:26:17,535

I will say is Grant my favorite piece of

700

00:26:17,535 –> 00:26:19,858

advice I was given. The magic we are all

701

00:26:19,858 –> 00:26:21,424

looking for is in the work you’re

702

00:26:21,424 –> 00:26:22,542

avoiding. Maybe you’ve heard something

703

00:26:22,542 –> 00:26:24,107

from one of these speakers today that

704

00:26:24,107 –> 00:26:25,673

there’s really hot hit hit that point.

705

00:26:25,673 –> 00:26:27,685

The key is to go and actually take action

706

00:26:27,685 –> 00:26:29,922

on that now and may even be coming up and

707

00:26:29,922 –> 00:26:31,487

speaking to one of these panelists after

708

00:26:31,487 –> 00:26:32,829

today’s session. Does anyone have any

709

00:26:32,829 –> 00:26:34,395

questions I’m getting yes you think I’ve

710

00:26:34,395 –> 00:26:36,407

got time go for it. Your hand up first

711

00:26:36,407 –> 00:26:38,196

thing got time be quick. Thank you all

712

00:26:38,196 –> 00:26:41,072

for. I guess from the

713

00:26:41,072 –> 00:26:42,524

conversations we’ve all said that

714

00:26:42,524 –> 00:26:44,848

conferred with that kind of stuff to you

715

00:26:44,848 –> 00:26:47,767

for doing this solo. What

716

00:26:47,767 –> 00:26:50,224

was the process like from bringing on the

717

00:26:50,224 –> 00:26:52,680

coal Fender and equity and just if you

718

00:26:52,680 –> 00:26:54,830

could talk kind of that process, what

719

00:26:54,830 –> 00:26:56,979

you’ve all been been trying to lose

720

00:26:56,979 –> 00:26:58,822

business launched exactly for two years

721

00:26:58,822 –> 00:27:01,586

and they will know that I need to bring

722

00:27:01,586 –> 00:27:04,042

my cofounder and to help me like the

723

00:27:04,042 –> 00:27:05,885

digital marketing and really help grow

724

00:27:05,885 –> 00:27:08,283

that sorry. So I’m just. Interested to

725

00:27:08,283 –> 00:27:10,296

see what that journey was like for you

726

00:27:10,296 –> 00:27:12,309

and how you bought them and what their

727

00:27:12,309 –> 00:27:13,818

ethnicity. And Russia, yeah, Russia don’t

728

00:27:13,818 –> 00:27:15,831

want 6 seconds or less each go through.

729

00:27:15,831 –> 00:27:17,340

Probably rushing down there. There’s no

730

00:27:17,340 –> 00:27:18,850

one process because everyone’s going to

731

00:27:18,850 –> 00:27:20,611

be slightly different. For the three of

732

00:27:20,611 –> 00:27:22,624

us that came together to fight, show one

733

00:27:22,624 –> 00:27:24,888

guy, Warren, had the idea. Paul and I had

734

00:27:24,888 –> 00:27:26,146

different expertise that come together

735

00:27:26,146 –> 00:27:28,410

and we came to go right at the beginning.

736

00:27:28,510 –> 00:27:30,282

So you’ll find that you started business,

737

00:27:30,282 –> 00:27:32,053

you wanna bring someone in, it’ll be

738

00:27:32,053 –> 00:27:33,572

slightly different. We then structured it

739

00:27:33,572 –> 00:27:35,849

in terms of me and Warren are gonna be

740

00:27:35,849 –> 00:27:37,874

doing more of the work going forward. So

741

00:27:37,874 –> 00:27:39,898

we get some sweats that behave well is

742

00:27:39,898 –> 00:27:42,429

one of the amount of money we put in and

743

00:27:42,429 –> 00:27:44,454

Paul wouldn’t. So he just got where you

744

00:27:44,454 –> 00:27:46,225

put the money in. How he structures

745

00:27:46,225 –> 00:27:47,491

really, really, really difficult. There

746

00:27:47,491 –> 00:27:49,530

is no one-size-fits-all. You want to be

747

00:27:49,530 –> 00:27:51,045

actually you’re comfortable with it going

748

00:27:51,045 –> 00:27:53,065

forward. So that’s the main thing is a

749

00:27:53,065 –> 00:27:54,327

union co-founder happy with the

750

00:27:54,327 –> 00:27:56,095

arrangement and you live with and he’s

751

00:27:56,095 –> 00:27:57,610

running the whole separate section on

752

00:27:57,610 –> 00:27:59,377

co-founder dynamics as well in terms of

753

00:27:59,377 –> 00:28:01,145

what you need, skill set, who you’re

754

00:28:01,145 –> 00:28:02,912

looking for, how you’re going to find

755

00:28:02,912 –> 00:28:04,680

that person. Because we’ve been doing it

756

00:28:04,680 –> 00:28:06,447

six years together now. We’ve got really,

757

00:28:06,447 –> 00:28:08,467

really well, but I’m very aware of really

758

00:28:08,467 –> 00:28:11,226

lucky. But it’s fairness. It’s like

759

00:28:11,226 –> 00:28:13,451

that’s the thing you need to look for is

760

00:28:13,451 –> 00:28:15,182

are you and your boyfriend are really

761

00:28:15,182 –> 00:28:16,913

happy and finding fair deals you’ve got.

762

00:28:16,913 –> 00:28:18,643

And then particularly where it’s W 60,

763

00:28:18,643 –> 00:28:20,374

there’s an element of that in there

764

00:28:20,374 –> 00:28:21,857

because everyone endearing to do that

765

00:28:21,857 –> 00:28:23,835

because you don’t want to go home working

766

00:28:23,835 –> 00:28:25,813

a lot harder. And I’m getting left and

767

00:28:25,813 –> 00:28:27,791

that that is just really difficult to be

768

00:28:27,791 –> 00:28:29,676

honest. Yeah, right. Great. So my

769

00:28:29,676 –> 00:28:31,614

co-founder is Doctor Brian Carson. So

770

00:28:31,614 –> 00:28:34,521

have he came on board with us was we

771

00:28:34,521 –> 00:28:37,105

were looking for a consultant at the time

772

00:28:37,105 –> 00:28:39,366

he bought into the idea of really

773

00:28:39,366 –> 00:28:41,303

aggressively because Doctor vision that I

774

00:28:41,303 –> 00:28:44,210

had and we sort of knew each other, but

775

00:28:44,210 –> 00:28:46,471

we weren’t very close or anything like

776

00:28:46,471 –> 00:28:49,378

that. So what my suggestion is if you are

777

00:28:49,378 –> 00:28:51,043

actively looking for somebody. Maybe

778

00:28:51,043 –> 00:28:52,954

bring him on the console to understand

779

00:28:52,954 –> 00:28:55,138

that you can work with them. You don’t

780

00:28:55,138 –> 00:28:56,502

have to necessarily agree with

781

00:28:56,502 –> 00:28:58,413

everything. They take you to see conflict

782

00:28:58,413 –> 00:29:00,597

to the good thing or first diversity or

783

00:29:00,597 –> 00:29:02,781

opinion is a really good thing. And then

784

00:29:02,781 –> 00:29:04,146

get into the cofounder conversations.

785

00:29:04,146 –> 00:29:06,056

That’s how Arlene came about. So we’ve

786

00:29:06,056 –> 00:29:08,786

kind of, he had a piece of work to do

787

00:29:08,786 –> 00:29:10,970

was he was leading a lot of division.

788

00:29:11,630 –> 00:29:13,308

Formulation that we wanted to position

789

00:29:13,308 –> 00:29:15,546

the product, the science and added a lot

790

00:29:15,546 –> 00:29:17,504

of credibility that I just didn’t have.

791

00:29:17,504 –> 00:29:19,741

So it’s a really tricky one. Yeah. I’ll

792

00:29:19,741 –> 00:29:21,699

share some more thoughts which happens if

793

00:29:21,699 –> 00:29:23,936

you want just one other quick thing on

794

00:29:23,936 –> 00:29:26,174

that would be get some legal advice as

795

00:29:26,174 –> 00:29:28,132

well to make joyful properly done. So

796

00:29:28,132 –> 00:29:29,810

don’t get like a template yeah.

797

00:29:31,050 –> 00:29:32,503

Not being chatty behaviour, yeah, Yeah,

798

00:29:32,503 –> 00:29:34,440

as someone who’s in that space, I would

799

00:29:34,440 –> 00:29:36,378

agree. And I would just add from actually

800

00:29:36,378 –> 00:29:38,799

doing it the wrong way. And if you have a

801

00:29:38,799 –> 00:29:40,495

cofounder where you have the same idea,

802

00:29:40,495 –> 00:29:42,916

that’s not the best way to go about it. I

803

00:29:42,916 –> 00:29:44,854

think having the same balance. So what I

804

00:29:44,854 –> 00:29:47,033

mean by that is you could both want the

805

00:29:47,033 –> 00:29:48,728

scale and exit business. You could both

806

00:29:48,728 –> 00:29:50,181

potentially want to do this particular

807

00:29:50,181 –> 00:29:52,085

segment of the market. The values are

808

00:29:52,085 –> 00:29:54,177

different to that that will make your top

809

00:29:54,177 –> 00:29:56,007

tip culture. People will leave you or

810

00:29:56,007 –> 00:29:57,576

have terrible turnover. So don’t just

811

00:29:57,576 –> 00:29:59,407

recruit on the having the same goal.

812

00:29:59,407 –> 00:30:01,761

There has to be some base level of value

813

00:30:01,761 –> 00:30:03,330

alignment. We can disagree and have

814

00:30:03,330 –> 00:30:04,899

challenges, but if the values are

815

00:30:04,899 –> 00:30:06,468

completely off, it will your business

816

00:30:06,468 –> 00:30:08,560

will never make it. And that is probably

817

00:30:08,560 –> 00:30:10,652

the biggest piece of advice I can get

818

00:30:10,652 –> 00:30:13,065

anybody to get the code. Basically start

819

00:30:13,065 –> 00:30:14,554

from scratch again many years down the

820

00:30:14,554 –> 00:30:16,255

line. I’m sorry, I don’t think you have

821

00:30:16,255 –> 00:30:17,744

time for any more questions, but these

822

00:30:17,744 –> 00:30:19,020

guys are hopefully be around afterwards

823

00:30:19,020 –> 00:30:20,934

just to take questions. So I just want to

824

00:30:20,934 –> 00:30:22,423

say thank you so much everyone for

825

00:30:22,423 –> 00:30:24,337

joining us today on on day two of the conference and a round, of course, for our panelists please.

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Legally on the Move: Festival of Entrepreneurs – Tre Lowe – E03

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