On today’s Legally Speaking Podcast, I am delighted to welcome back to the show Curt Sigfstead. Curt is the Chief Financial Officer at Clio. Curt has a wealth of experience in financial planning, accounting and investment banking. His expertise in financial leadership and understanding of SaaS and fintech is a valuable asset to Clio.

So why should you be listening in? 

You can hear Rob and Curt discussing:

– Clio’s Customer-Centric and Strategic Growth Approach

– Curt’s Deep Financial Background and Transition to Operator Role

– Evolving Role of a CFO at a High-Growth SaaS Company

– Clio’s Strategic Vision and Scalable Global Expansion

– Significance and Impact of Clio’s Series F Funding

Connect with Curt here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/curtsigfstead/

Transcript

00:00:00 Curt Sigfstead

A core value of Clio is putting the customer first. You don’t stop, you keep the momentum going, but you may not drive at 60 miles an hour when you can’t see more than 10 feet in front of you.

00:00:10

We’ll keep moving forward.

00:00:11 Curt Sigfstead

We’ve got a tremendous opportunity ahead of us.

00:00:14 Curt Sigfstead

Sharedo, who actually partners very effectively with a number of these larger players in the space. And so while we’ve entered large law, we haven’t entered large law as a direct competitor,

00:00:26 Curt Sigfstead

if you will, to some of the larger players in this space we’ve actually entered

00:00:30 Curt Sigfstead

As an important partner.

00:00:31 Rob Hanna

On today’s legally speaking podcast, I’m delighted to welcome back to the show. Curt Sigfstead Curt is the chief financial officer at Clio. Curt has a wealth of experience in financial planning, accounting and investment banking. His expertise in financial leadership and understanding of SAS.

00:00:48 Rob Hanna

And Fintech is a valuable asset to Clio, so a very big, warm welcome, Curt.

00:00:54 Curt Sigfstead

Thanks, rob. Great to be here.

00:00:55 Curt Sigfstead

Excited. Always good to catch up with you and share the latest thoughts and also get your insights on things so happy to be here and let’s get going, yeah.

00:01:05 Rob Hanna

Yeah, absolutely. And and before we get going, we have a customary icebreaker question here on the legally speaking podcast, which is on the scale of one to 1010.

00:01:15 Rob Hanna

Being very real.

00:01:16 Rob Hanna

What would you rate the hit TV series suits in terms its reality of the Law

00:01:20 Rob Hanna

If you’ve seen it on the scale of 1-10.

00:01:24 Curt Sigfstead

So unfortunately I have not seen it Rob, so I’m going to have to give it a zero in terms of my ability to rate it zero to 10. So that’s.

00:01:34 Curt Sigfstead

Where we are.

00:01:35

That’s where we are and.

00:01:36 Rob Hanna

That’s a very valid and sensible answer, but with that we should move swiftly on to talk all about you. So to begin with, would you mind telling our listeners, but about your background and?

00:01:45 Curt Sigfstead

Hey, Johnny. Yeah, sure. So. So I started here and clearly about 3 years ago, but that’s really sort of the beginning of the Clio journey, if you will. But I really began my career in finance about 25 years ago. And, you know, I came out of Business School and thought about the opportunities.

00:01:56 Rob Hanna

Yeah.

00:02:07 Curt Sigfstead

To me and.

00:02:08 Curt Sigfstead

And I was really intrigued by the opportunity to join JP Morgan, you know, an incredible firm, global Reach, incredible finance training ground, lots of opportunities. So join JP Morgan and started my career in in mergers and acquisitions with media companies and technology companies.

00:02:28 Curt Sigfstead

In New York and then we moved to California in 2000, not knowing that we were about to hit one of the worst tech recessions ever.

00:02:40 Curt Sigfstead

And managed to survive through through that journey, which has all kinds of interesting lessons and and observations as we sort of continue through our trials and tribulations even today, and then focus in California on software.

00:02:59 Curt Sigfstead

Companies, you know, vertical, sass, some similar to to Clio, but different industries.

00:03:04 Curt Sigfstead

And then ran into the Great Recession, which was another learning opportunity, and managed to keep my job through that whole period of time, which was of course filled with lots of roller coaster rides and.

00:03:20 Curt Sigfstead

Both opportunities, but also you know challenges especially for the early stage company ecosystem and and also also for the large public company.

00:03:30 Curt Sigfstead

And and then came through that and then, you know, obviously a tremendous number of of kind of leading technology companies, companies like ServiceNow, Avalara, Blacklines, smartsheet, all of which you know, I was directly involved with as they went through their IPO.

00:03:51 Curt Sigfstead

Moneys and.

00:03:53 Curt Sigfstead

And then I, you know, I got the.

00:03:55 Curt Sigfstead

Itch to move to the operator side. You know, there’s sort of a side once you’re you know you’re on the agent side, you’re an investment bank, you’re you’re seeing all the fun these management teams are having and you know the opportunity to really think about 1, you know, set of issues as opposed to, you know having 10 or 15.

00:04:13 Curt Sigfstead

Clients that you’re you’re working with and.

00:04:17 Curt Sigfstead

So in 2000.

00:04:18 Curt Sigfstead

I Made the move to the operating side, I joined a fast growing Toronto-based fintech company Clear Co. It was named Clear Bank at the time but changed the name to Clear Co.

00:04:31 Curt Sigfstead

And.

00:04:31 Curt Sigfstead

Really, with the mission to take.

00:04:33 Curt Sigfstead

That company, through its series C financing, was Series B and tech company. And you know, we we happened to land on the right side of of COVID with respect to being an e-commerce finance company and so had a very successful outcome with a very compelling product suite as well.

00:04:51 Curt Sigfstead

And once once I did that, I I actually got a call from Jack and.

00:04:58 Curt Sigfstead

You know, I think Clio at the time was thinking about a CFO that could help them, you know, tackle the challenges of scaling quickly, you know, taking on a much more complex set of M&A transactions, potentially thinking about, you know what public market opportunities sometime in the future.

00:05:17 Curt Sigfstead

But you know, wanted to kind of have that that those set of experiences in in the next CFO.

00:05:23 Curt Sigfstead

And and the nice thing was, rob, you know the previous CFO was was just simply retiring. I think he had had a great run and and had done a fantastic job so.

00:05:34 Curt Sigfstead

So I stepped into the role.

00:05:35 Curt Sigfstead

In Clio and.

00:05:36 Curt Sigfstead

Early 2022 and found a fantastic finance org and sort of have taken the company from there so…

00:05:43 Curt Sigfstead

Hopefully that gives you a little bit of uh, the flavour and sort of background of my finance career.

00:05:49 Rob Hanna

Yeah. No, absolutely. And thank you so much for for giving that rich overview and and what I learned about that you you said and Jess, but it’s very true you know with these adverse markets and downturns and recessions and crashes.

00:06:01 Rob Hanna

You always learn.

00:06:01 Rob Hanna

You know, and you like. You said. You learn so much through that time that’s equipped you. You’ve gone on your journeys, you’ve built your skill set and always.

00:06:08 Rob Hanna

Use the acronym.

00:06:09 Rob Hanna

Lose. You never actually lose. It’s life offering some experience. And I think that’s what you’ve articulated well there, but.

00:06:15 Rob Hanna

Let’s go to.

00:06:16 Rob Hanna

The the present then, because you are the.

00:06:18 Rob Hanna

CFO of clear, you’re doing a tremendous job.

00:06:21 Rob Hanna

But for those who might be less familiar of what the CFO does of such a huge organisation such as Clio, what is your role involve and what does a typical day like look like for you, appreciating perhaps not 2 days?

00:06:31 Rob Hanna

So.

00:06:32 Curt Sigfstead

Yeah. So, I mean a typical perspective want to.

00:06:35 Curt Sigfstead

See a flow.

00:06:36 Curt Sigfstead

In a company like Clio is, you know, I’m just the guy in the corner office who says no to everything, you know, and and. No, no, no. And every budget’s too big. And, you know, every opportunity isn’t big enough. And. And you know what it what it really is, is is you’re.

00:06:51

You’re a thought.

00:06:51 Curt Sigfstead

Partner and you’re an industry partner and you’re really trying to assist every level of the company, you know, including the Board of Directors.

00:07:01 Curt Sigfstead

With making the best decisions possible, and that’s with having the available financial sort of tools to do that and two, to ensure that our investors, our employees, our stakeholders, have the utmost confidence in Clio, its results.

00:07:21 Curt Sigfstead

Its performance and so making sure that everything you know on our financial side is it is locked down so.

00:07:28 Curt Sigfstead

You know, my day can be as varied as the weather in the UK. So it is, you know it could start with a a meeting you know with our accounting team talking about a particular policy memo that we need to hammer out in terms of you know work we’re.

00:07:49 Curt Sigfstead

Doing with our auditors to helping our go to market.

00:07:52 Curt Sigfstead

Team think through, you know, some of their efficiency metrics and and how they might think about some some strategies on that front.

00:07:59 Curt Sigfstead

To a call with Jack, you.

00:08:01 Curt Sigfstead

Know regarding a, you know, an investor meeting that we recently had and how we want to approach.

00:08:06 Curt Sigfstead

That to an upcoming board meeting and.

00:08:08 Curt Sigfstead

How we’re going to position, you know, updates to our budget.

00:08:12 Curt Sigfstead

And how we’re going to talk about the?

00:08:15 Curt Sigfstead

Rest of the year.

00:08:16 Curt Sigfstead

Which is a timely topic because.

00:08:18 Curt Sigfstead

Of everything that’s going up in the world and and how do we can, you know, best sort of balance both the opportunity and clearly some of the challenges that some are forecasting in the economy. So it’s it’s an incredibly.

00:08:32 Curt Sigfstead

Rich role with a lot of different opportunities to help influence.

00:08:37 Curt Sigfstead

Outcomes across the company.

00:08:39 Curt Sigfstead

And with Bill frankly of of really assisting Clio in becoming the best company possible by making the best decisions with the most information available. So I love it. I love the variety, I love the team that we work with across, you know, all aspects of the company and it it makes for a day.

00:08:59 Curt Sigfstead

It’s never the same as the last day, so it’s good. It’s really fun.

00:09:03 Rob Hanna

Yeah. And and.

00:09:03 Rob Hanna

It’s exciting and you know, we have the the pleasure of obviously collaborating with Clio with with you know yourselves, your side of the pond. But over here in the UK where we do have that mixed weather daily.

00:09:05 Curt Sigfstead

Yeah.

00:09:14 Rob Hanna

You know, today is today is no exception. And I think when I interviewed Jack a a couple of years back, I always you know, we were chatting away and I said new level new Devil.

00:09:22 Rob Hanna

Right. And Clio has obviously kept.

00:09:23 Curt Sigfstead

That’s exactly. It’s very good. Yeah.

00:09:23 Rob Hanna

Going keeps going, keeps going to other levels and we’ll come on to that shortly. But I guess you are a leading legal tech platform. You continue to to innovate.

00:09:34 Rob Hanna

Continue to look forward as part of your North Star mission to transform a legal.

00:09:37 Rob Hanna

Experience for all. How do you see?

00:09:39 Rob Hanna

The company evolving in the next few years in light of where we are today in 2025.

00:09:44 Curt Sigfstead

Yeah. So you know, so first, we’re obviously getting bigger, you know, and that’s on a number of metrics, you know, revenue and people, products, opportunities.

00:09:58 Curt Sigfstead

But that means that we.

00:09:59 Curt Sigfstead

Need to get.

00:10:00 Curt Sigfstead

Smarter about how we actually prosecute or go after those.

00:10:05 Curt Sigfstead

Opportunities and.

00:10:06 Curt Sigfstead

You know it doesn’t. Yeah, I think earlier. Earlier, in some companies journeys it’s a little bit 1 + 1 = 2 and you know, for Clio now with the scale that we have, you know 1 + 1/2 = 2, you know we should get more leverage out of, you know, our resources. So that’s that’s you.

00:10:26 Curt Sigfstead

Know sort of.

00:10:26 Curt Sigfstead

Number one is like continuing to.

00:10:29 Curt Sigfstead

To grow. But thinking about that.

00:10:32 Curt Sigfstead

That opportunity to benefit from scale 2 is, you know, we have so many exciting opportunities on the growth side as we continue to expand not only in our core markets, but we see such a huge global opportunity and already customers in countries where we.

00:10:49 Curt Sigfstead

Don’t even have a.

00:10:50 Curt Sigfstead

You know a go to market.

00:10:51 Curt Sigfstead

Motion adopting Clio’s platform.

00:10:53 Curt Sigfstead

And that’s only been extended by, you know, our recent acquisition of share do, which we might get into in a little bit more detail. But you know now we can serve everyone from you know the single practitioner all the way up to law firms and legal organisations that have thousands of of of participants or employees so.

00:11:14 Curt Sigfstead

That’s that’s, you know, setting up that challenge bigger, broader partnerships as we expand globally, those require a lot more attention and.

00:11:23 Curt Sigfstead

For we’ve got so many new product opportunities and the integration of those products and so we see that opportunity our payments business, you know our payments platform has become an incredibly useful platform for our customers. And so we’re seeing.

00:11:43 Curt Sigfstead

A lot of growth on that front and we see the ability to add on additional financial services that continue to help our customers scale and grow, so.

00:11:52 Curt Sigfstead

There is some, there’s no lack of opportunity as we get bigger and I think the, you know, the challenge in an organisation like Clio is there’s so much to get after is you know, how do we prioritise that? And then two, how do we then go after that in the most.

00:12:11 Curt Sigfstead

You know in my terms, you know capital efficient way and because we do, you know one of the things that you know we we often forget as we get bigger is you know the capital that we use to build.

00:12:26 Curt Sigfstead

Clio is is really.

00:12:28 Curt Sigfstead

You know your grandmother’s pension, your uncles’s, you know, retirement fund and and even though it’s venture capitalists and and growth equity that that deploys the capital, that’s where you know the, the, the, the amount, the money actually comes from individuals like that. And so we have to be incredibly respectful and.

00:12:48 Curt Sigfstead

Thoughtful about how we how we deploy that money. So that’s some the good. The good news is that’s been sort of quarter Clio you know since its founding and and we just have to keep remembering that as we scale and and grow.

00:13:01 Speaker 3

So.

00:13:03 Curt Sigfstead

Yeah, it’s. It’s exciting. Like there’s just a lot in front of us and in a very good way. And and we’re, you know, maniacally focused, focused on our customers and ensuring that their their lives get better as we introduce more products and more, more platforms for them to utilise.

00:13:22 Rob Hanna

And and I’ve seen that since we’ve been partnering with, with, with Clio since 2021. And I think what’s impressed me the most is obviously and we’ll talk about this, the acquisitions, the raises and everything else. But as you’ve continued to grow.

00:13:34 Rob Hanna

Though you’ve not lost.

00:13:36 Rob Hanna

The core identity and culture of the business, and I think that’s really fundamentally important as well. You really care about your people. You care about your clients. Like you said, you’re exceptionally client focused and driven. You’re empathetic, you’re innovative. And that’s really what you know, we enjoy partnering with with Clio all about as well. I think that culture at the heart of the organisation has has.

00:13:54 Rob Hanna

Said. And you know, to your point as well, you know we we recently went out to Dubai and we met with so many Clio customers. You know they’re in Dubai and that gives an example. When I go to Clio con, you meet.

00:14:04 Rob Hanna

People from, you know, from Africa, from all parts of the world that are clear users. So you know, as you continue that growth and that journey, it’s just going to be hugely exciting. So yeah, moving then to your where you made history last year with your series F, not many get to.

00:14:17 Rob Hanna

To that level of of of.

00:14:19 Rob Hanna

Funding so huge milestone for Clio. Congratulations once again, but for folks who may be less familiar.

00:14:25 Rob Hanna

You know what does the series of funding actually mean, and how has this investment actually been put to work and the impact it’s had so far?

00:14:33 Curt Sigfstead

Sure. So you know, for those less familiar, you know, there’s sort of a venture capital convention around funding rounds and.

00:14:42 Curt Sigfstead

You know you typically start with your seed and preceed and then you start on the alphabet journey and you start to go down the alphabet and your goal is not to get to Z. That is not the goal of of this, but it’s just a it’s it’s a convention and and you know I I think historically there’s been a little bit more convention around the fact that.

00:15:03 Curt Sigfstead

Later you get down the funding, sort of the further down the alphabet, the kind of little bit stranger it seems for a company to be there because typically you go public.

00:15:14 Curt Sigfstead

But with all the volatility that we’ve seen in the public markets and frankly a lot of the benefits of being a private company and importantly the amount of capital that’s available in the private markets to fund companies like Clio, you’ve seen companies like Stripe and Canva, you know, continue to you know.

00:15:34 Curt Sigfstead

Pursue their private trees and with.

00:15:37 Curt Sigfstead

Valuations and date of birth is another one that are, you know, north of 20 billion, 30 billion and so.

00:15:43 Curt Sigfstead

It’s proved to.

00:15:44 Curt Sigfstead

Be a very viable path for for companies like ourselves, so incredibly exciting event for us, it was an opportunity for us to do a couple things.

00:15:57 Curt Sigfstead

1st.

00:15:59 Curt Sigfstead

We had some early.

00:16:00 Curt Sigfstead

Stage investors who just Clio’s.

00:16:03 Curt Sigfstead

Been here for 17.

00:16:04 Curt Sigfstead

Years most funds are set up with sort of a 10 year timeline and so you know, they were coming up to kind of their end of end of life if.

00:16:13

You will for.

00:16:14 Curt Sigfstead

The particular fund and so they look for an opportunity to sell some their their shares.

00:16:19 Curt Sigfstead

Return that to their limited partners or lips, as they’re often referred.

00:16:25 Curt Sigfstead

And so that was sort of #1 #2 is we hadn’t done sort of an employee liquidity event for four years. And so it was an opportunity for us to reward and provide liquidity to our employees and why that’s really important Rob is because.

00:16:46 Curt Sigfstead

We grant stock options and for a lot of employees stock options are this sort of ephemeral instrument that is very difficult to understand and really doesn’t have any value. But when you actually exercise your option and.

00:17:03 Curt Sigfstead

You’re able to.

00:17:04 Curt Sigfstead

Sell your stock, your, your share and you see that money come into your account.

00:17:09 Curt Sigfstead

All of a sudden, every other option you have becomes that much more real and you start to understand why we have options and the opportunity around that. So you know second opportunity for us was around employee liquidity and also you know the second piece of that is really firm.

00:17:26 Curt Sigfstead

Bring up our compensation programmes in terms of how real they are for our employees and 3rd was to really bring in a new set of investors who could take us to the next level and and that’s not to say our existing investors were, you know, ladders by any means. They pushed us and been fantastic.

00:17:48 Curt Sigfstead

Partners. It’s just that as you get to, you know, different levels of scale, different investors have different networks. They have different areas of expertise and they can really help you around the table. Think about what the next stage of the company should look like.

00:18:03 Curt Sigfstead

And so that was the third benefit of going out and doing the series F and it’s been tremendous having, you know, NEA as on our cap table and our board and we also brought on Goldman Sachs and 6th St and Tide mark and also Capital G which is the late stage arm of of Google or Alphabet so.

00:18:24 Curt Sigfstead

Fantastic outcome for us and what if we’ve done with it since?

00:18:30 Curt Sigfstead

Well, we’ve focused the.

00:18:32 Curt Sigfstead

You know the capital and the expertise around scaling the company. You know drive you.

00:18:38 Curt Sigfstead

Know being able to.

00:18:40 Curt Sigfstead

Seek key executive talent, thinking strategically about our landscape and what opportunities we have as companies begin to think about M&A. And so it’s been and and most importantly, we’ve done a tremendous amount on the product innovation side and you’ve seen the introduction of.

00:19:00 Curt Sigfstead

Duo and and you know, that’s just really our first foray into the the whole AI opportunity that we see ahead of us,

00:19:07 Curt Sigfstead

so it’s been it.

00:19:09 Curt Sigfstead

Was a fantastic process, fantastic outcome, critical for us to go to the next level and.

00:19:17 Curt Sigfstead

It it only served to validate, I think for us and also for the market that Clio’s on the right track given you know the $3 billion valuation and the 900 million that we we raised as part of that series of transaction. So hopefully that gives you that perspective you.

00:19:34 Curt Sigfstead

Were looking for.

00:19:35 Rob Hanna

Yes.

00:19:36 Rob Hanna

And it it just shows the the momentum that Clio is building as well. And you know it’s it’s all strategic. You know when when I hear your your story and the way Clio approaches things like you said it would have been very easy to to stick perhaps with what you already know. But going out and seeking and bringing in these strategic.

00:19:52 Rob Hanna

Partners and advisors and those networks and collaborating or say collaboration is domination. It just shows that you can really keep that momentum and stay at the forefront. And I also love that you’re putting people first as well and and genuinely finding a way through that. So people actually see that their efforts are contributing and they will see, like you say, those dollars in their in their bank account.

00:20:10 Curt Sigfstead

Exactly.

00:20:12 Rob Hanna

Which at the end of their people work hard.

00:20:14 Rob Hanna

They’re they’re rightly.

00:20:15 Rob Hanna

Deserves of it. OK, let’s talk generally before the share due acquisition, which obviously would come on to next, but your your approach to acquisitions as as a business. Could you maybe explain sort of start to finish high level sort of your your approach at Clio?

00:20:20 Curt Sigfstead

Yeah.

00:20:30 Rob Hanna

Yeah. So we’re we’re very.

00:20:32 Curt Sigfstead

Fortunate in in our broader legal tech sector to have both, you know this incredible organic growth opportunity, but also this, you know, amazing M and a opportunity at the same time and.

00:20:46 Curt Sigfstead

The the You know the the the sort of from an outsider perspective you would say?

00:20:53 Curt Sigfstead

Well, why don’t you just focus on the organic opportunity? That was the way of Apple and and you know, they grew and became this incredible platform.

00:21:01 Curt Sigfstead

But in the legal space broadly, or, you know in legal tech, there are so many workflows. This is this is not one workflow that solves everybody’s you know it’s it’s it’s there’s there’s a lot to do in legal.

00:21:20 Curt Sigfstead

And we just simply can’t pursue everything with the resources we have. And so.

00:21:27 Curt Sigfstead

You know our approach and the reason why I just give you all this context is because our approach has really been about executing M&A as it relates to opportunities that are on our road map. But we just simply couldn’t get there fast enough. So we’re not going out and sort of looking at each bright shiny object.

00:21:47 Curt Sigfstead

And deciding.

00:21:48 Curt Sigfstead

So yeah, that’s a cool company. Let’s buy that and just bolt that on. We have a very deliberate product planning process that goes out multiple years and we think about, you know, what would be best as we talked about for our customers and if we find companies out there that are.

00:22:08 Curt Sigfstead

Not far ahead of us on this journey or could accelerate that room, that road map in some way, shape or form that has typically been the impetus for us to pursue M&A.

00:22:16 Curt Sigfstead

And we’ve been fortunate, you know, prior to the acquisition of share due that we can benefit from our application integration platform. So we’ve got over 3.

00:22:27 Curt Sigfstead

150.

00:22:28 Curt Sigfstead

Partners that are connected to the Clio platform that can be integrated into our managed platform and.

00:22:37 Curt Sigfstead

You know those those that’s a very good way for us to understand if these companies are in fact adding a lot of value to our current customers and so.

00:22:49 Curt Sigfstead

We benefited from that visibility in in our previous acquisitions like Mexicana for example, which became our Clio grow product and and so share do deviated you know to kind of transition a little bit into that shared you deviated from that in the sense it was not.

00:23:09 Curt Sigfstead

Something that we had that experience with.

00:23:12 Curt Sigfstead

But it was definitely a critical part of our road map as we thought about where Clio was going to be in the next five years and we definitely saw the opportunity to extend our platform to you know from those, call it SMB law firm to the large enterprise law firm and so.

00:23:32 Curt Sigfstead

That’s how you know our. So our M&A, you know to kind of wrap that up in a bow.

00:23:38 Curt Sigfstead

Our M&A is really built around product acceleration, not simple consolidation and cost reductions that we can, you know, benefit from.

00:23:48 Rob Hanna

Yeah. And it’s again, it’s it’s so small. You know the way that you you approach these things and again moving to shady then I was delighted not surprised that that happened and for two reasons. One I’ve been recruiting in big law for over a decade. So a lot of my clients are now going to be using sharding straight Clio which is which is great and hopefully will be a lot of pain.

00:24:08 Rob Hanna

Friction within within our world, but also whether a mission so verbose, and I’ve spoken to Jack about this.

00:24:14 Rob Hanna

Support transform the legal expert.

00:24:16 Rob Hanna

For all, there was no way you couldn’t move into the space. It has you. You you have to go where the mission leads. And so you know, it was great that you, you, you did it this year. But why? Why share you in particular? Why was that the.

00:24:28 Rob Hanna

Right. One because.

00:24:29 Rob Hanna

It is a competitive space. There are some.

00:24:31 Rob Hanna

Other players that.

00:24:32 Rob Hanna

Are very well immersed in that what made share do the right move for?

00:24:34 Rob Hanna

Clear and strategy.

00:24:36 Curt Sigfstead

Not necessarily rank order, but I’ll give you sort of sort of why you know this was you know, an important acquisition for us and why we decided to pursue it first was you know, as we talked about the space and transforming legal experience for all.

00:24:48 Curt Sigfstead

We had, we.

00:24:49 Curt Sigfstead

Had to think about the enterprise in in that space.

00:24:52 Curt Sigfstead

But 2 when you look at a lot of the platforms across that space, a lot of them not all, but a lot of them are platforms that were developed. You know many, many years ago and therefore you know, carry a lot of legacy technology.

00:25:13 Curt Sigfstead

With them. And so when we met Ben and the team at Sherdon.

00:25:18 Curt Sigfstead

There were a couple things that really stood out. First, just an incredible culture. You know, the team there right away, we could see how Clio and Sheridan would come together in a way that would be almost seamless in terms of approach to customers, approach to employee relations.

00:25:38 Curt Sigfstead

And and also you know technology development so.

00:25:41 Curt Sigfstead

It it was.

00:25:42 Curt Sigfstead

That was very apparent very early on too.

00:25:46 Curt Sigfstead

Very cloud forward cloud native approach to technology development, which as you know Rob and we’ve talked about many times is sort of at the heart of Clio and really you know the transformation that that we led in in the legal space.

00:26:05 Curt Sigfstead

And forward is, you know, the really low code architecture for the user on this front. So they’ve they’ve started in a position of thinking about the customer.

00:26:19 Curt Sigfstead

And how that customer is going to build their workflows and also permissions into the case management platform that they they provide. And so again you know that just touched right on a core value of Clio which is putting the customer first. So their solution.

00:26:39 Curt Sigfstead

Being cloud native is also much easier or much more customer friendly in terms of the ability to customise that for each of the work situations which you know as we know case management in a small and medium sized firm can be.

00:26:54 Curt Sigfstead

The UM really built around sort of five to 10 people and and sort of the permissioning and and sort of the building of the process can be quite or can be a little bit more simple if you will, and but in in a large law firm you could have 100 people touching your case. And so there there’s a lot more work that has to be done.

00:27:15 Curt Sigfstead

And a lot.

00:27:16 Curt Sigfstead

For permissioning that has to be built in, especially as you think about different practise areas within a large law firm and the like, so you know along with the way of saying just kind of hit the hit hit, hit all of the key areas that we were focused on and and obviously just a huge bonus of being so culturally aligned and so.

00:27:36 Curt Sigfstead

We’ve had, UM, just a a great time getting to the finish line. As you mentioned, there are competitors in this space.

00:27:45 Curt Sigfstead

The good news is shared. You actually partners very effectively with a number of these larger players in the space. And so while we’ve entered large law, we haven’t entered large law as a direct competitor, if you will, to our you know some of the larger players in the space we’ve actually entered as an important partner.

00:28:06 Curt Sigfstead

So that, that, that will certainly help us as we as we get our footing and kind of continue to build there.

00:28:12 Rob Hanna

Yeah. And I’m. I’m just trying to sort of.

00:28:14 Rob Hanna

Summarise that in my.

00:28:15 Rob Hanna

Own head and I would put that down to the three C’s. Given we’re talking to Clio, number one, cutting edge. I think they’ve got cutting edge technology. Like you said, that’s very much focused on, you know, the cloud and looking forward to not holding clunky legacy tech. I think #2 customer putting that customer. Yeah, absolutely at the heart and #3 we all know.

00:28:33 Rob Hanna

Culture each you know. Strategy for breakfast. I think having that right culture and I.

00:28:36 Rob Hanna

Even saw that in Benz.

00:28:37 Rob Hanna

Video announcement it was so human on LinkedIn, just so natural and just, you know, I can see the energy of clear and shared doing the culture is just working super well. So yeah, very excited. And as I say, delighted to see that so going to put the end user and and law firms first, how will this particular position we shared or.

00:28:58 Rob Hanna

Improve the experience for those larger law firms. Mid size larger law firms and.

00:29:04 Rob Hanna

Typically.

00:29:05 Curt Sigfstead

Yeah. So you know effectively.

00:29:08 Curt Sigfstead

What shared you?

00:29:09 Curt Sigfstead

Does is it enables a very easy to use, easy to integrate cloud based case management system within the firm and why that is?

00:29:25 Curt Sigfstead

Why that’s incredibly helpful is because.

00:29:31 Curt Sigfstead

There are a lot of systems that large law firms have already invested in. They’ve done a tonne of training, they work well, they’re affect.

00:29:39 Curt Sigfstead

With and so they’re not going to remove them. And so the the the mission of share data is to take all that invested technology base and just basically raise the bar and integrate them in a way a that’s easy you know for the law firm to do but.

00:29:59 Curt Sigfstead

Who provides basically a seamless experience across all of those? Call it silo or focused solutions to create a comprehensive case management.

00:30:09 Curt Sigfstead

Platform and so how that helps and improve the legal experience for all, which is at the heart of our mission, as you know, is it’s going to make those law firms much more efficient because they’ll have increased visibility across their cases where they stand, who’s staffed on them.

00:30:16

Sure.

00:30:30 Curt Sigfstead

You know the work that’s going on, and two, they can leverage their existing investments and take advantage of best of breed, you know, improvements across those platforms as they become available and.

00:30:42 Curt Sigfstead

So you know, that’s what large law firms are looking for. They’re not looking for in.

00:30:47 Curt Sigfstead

Some ways the.

00:30:48 Curt Sigfstead

Clear sort of all in one box that we provide to you know, the small and medium sized law firm which benefit from an incredibly, you know integrated platform.

00:30:58 Curt Sigfstead

They’re looking to to knit together.

00:31:00 Curt Sigfstead

If you will all of their critical.

00:31:02 Curt Sigfstead

So systems into a comprehensive case management system with a forward-looking platform. And that’s exactly what share do does.

00:31:11 Rob Hanna

Today’s episode is brought to you by Clio, host of the biggest conference in legal Clio con. This year’s Clio con, set for Boston, MA in October the 16th and 17th, is taking shape. The latest exciting news. The full agenda is now live. You don’t want to miss the chance to see what’s happening in the legal industry. Connect with all your peers.

00:31:31 Rob Hanna

And level up how you use legal technology. Plus, Clio has made it easier than ever to make your conference experience.

00:31:37 Rob Hanna

Your own. They’ve sorted keynotes, workshops and sessions into different tracks, meaning you can choose the track that best suits your needs or mix and match from multiple tracks to build a customised experience. Further curate your Clio con experience when you book your hotel with exclusive pricing and secure tickets to the iconic evening.

00:31:57 Rob Hanna

That part.

00:31:58 Rob Hanna

It’s no surprise, then, that clear con is already over 50% sold, so don’t miss out. Past prices will never be this low again, so act now. Visit Cliocom.com to secure your past today. Now back to the show. You’re always looking for fusion rather than confusion, aren’t you? When it comes to integration and trying to make it happen.

00:32:17 Rob Hanna

And you’re trying to reduce friction as well, and the more you can ease that so people can operate more efficiently. I I think it’s brilliant. OK, so you’ve come out the blocks clear came out the blocks rather really fast. Once again this.

00:32:30 Rob Hanna

Year and obviously you’ve acquired share do and does this you know what does the signal in terms of Clio’s approach moving forward, should we expect to see some more M&A activity from clear?

00:32:41 Curt Sigfstead

Yeah, I I think you know if you kind.

00:32:44 Curt Sigfstead

Of if you look at.

00:32:44 Curt Sigfstead

Our cadence at M&AI think this.

00:32:46 Curt Sigfstead

Is our, you know, 5th acquisition you know.

00:32:50 Curt Sigfstead

Over the last.

00:32:51 Curt Sigfstead

6-7 years and so.

00:32:55 Curt Sigfstead

We’ll continue to.

00:32:56 Curt Sigfstead

Do M&A, you know, we don’t see any departure from what has been, you know what we would call product driven or product road map driven driven M and.

00:33:06 Curt Sigfstead

A which tends.

00:33:07 Curt Sigfstead

To be by its very nature or sort of call it smaller or.

00:33:14 Curt Sigfstead

You know, bite sized so you know I.

00:33:17 Curt Sigfstead

I think you can expect.

00:33:17 Curt Sigfstead

That from Clio because what we need to do is continue to build on our platform, continue to serve our customers. They have evolving needs and there’s so much innovation now in the.

00:33:28 Curt Sigfstead

Gold ecosystem there’s just no way we can stay on top of all of it here at Clio and so we can provide a great home for a lot of these companies to frankly, you know, extend their reach, you know, broaden their careers, build their products and so.

00:33:46 Curt Sigfstead

I think there’s a.

00:33:47 Curt Sigfstead

Good balance right now for.

00:33:48 Curt Sigfstead

Us to continue to do what we’ve been doing.

00:33:51 Rob Hanna

Yeah, absolutely. If it if it’s not broken, right, keep, keep going. Keep keep following the the path you’ve touched on it briefly, but just want to go a little bit deeper in terms of sort of market shift because legal tech is evolving rapidly and as someone who’s constantly interviewing CEO’s and legal techs on this show and you know, looking at legal tech or being on the various businesses myself.

00:34:11 Rob Hanna

You know the speed is, is, is, is exciting. But you know there’s increasing investor and obviously customer interest. How do you see the market shifting and how is Clio positioning itself for that? Yeah, so.

00:34:26

I’d love to.

00:34:26 Curt Sigfstead

Say we’re brilliant, but we’re fortunate, you know, to be in the position that the markets really coming to Clio in, in, in waterways and we had built our platform to really.

00:34:41 Curt Sigfstead

Enable a number of things, including enhance, you know, first and foremost, enhancing the legal experience for all, but importantly the the legal professional themselves in terms of making them more efficient, giving them more opportunity to generate revenue.

00:34:56 Curt Sigfstead

And giving them the data that they need every day to to.

00:34:59 Curt Sigfstead

Better operate their law firms and so.

00:35:02 Curt Sigfstead

You know in, in, in.

00:35:03 Curt Sigfstead

A lot of ways what’s happening is the markets coming in our direction, which is, you know, law firms and legal professionals want an easy to use, comprehensive platform that gives them the visibility into their practise.

00:35:16 Curt Sigfstead

The data they need to basically make better decisions.

00:35:20 Curt Sigfstead

And you know something that integrates to make their work life that much easier, but also makes the customer experience, you know, that much better. And So what we’ve seen is, you know, a number of law firms, professionals, really.

00:35:38 Curt Sigfstead

Start to think.

00:35:38 Curt Sigfstead

About, OK, what’s going to be the next step that I?

00:35:41 Curt Sigfstead

Want to take?

00:35:42 Curt Sigfstead

We obviously see that happening, you know daily here at Clio in terms of the interaction with customers.

00:35:50 Rob Hanna

But we’re in.

00:35:50 Curt Sigfstead

Particular, we’re seeing an acceleration of that dialogue as AI becomes a a bigger part of the picture. And you know the reason for that is that lawyers are practising or practising professionals and but they’re also the ones who are are making the decision around the type of technology that they’re going to use.

00:36:10 Curt Sigfstead

So they they don’t have a lot of time to be able to entertain 10 different service providers for different platforms, 15 different AI solutions, they they need to know and they need to have the confidence that they’re dealing with the best possible product out there and one that’s seamless in terms of its integration.

00:36:30 Curt Sigfstead

And that’s where Clio comes in. We, we we provide that platform that capability for the lawyers and and our attorneys around the world and you know with our solution they.

00:36:43 Curt Sigfstead

And create that much more efficiency in their day, which allows them to do so many things. It’s not. In some cases it’s to, you know, grow their business and bring on, you know, additional customers. For some it’s to, you know, improve the quality of their life and and to use those hours for other activities.

00:37:03 Curt Sigfstead

And for some, it’s to create the space for pro bono work. That is important to a number of professionals so you know we’re seeing that come our way and and, you know, we were we were on that journey and I think really the AI.

00:37:21 Curt Sigfstead

Part of the puzzle.

00:37:22 Curt Sigfstead

Really just accelerates a lot of those trends and a lot of those opportunities for attorneys and that has, you know, in a very good way brought a tonne more attention to the space as well. And and I think raised the awareness for attorneys to start thinking about, you know that that they really can’t.

00:37:42 Curt Sigfstead

Change the way they work.

00:37:44 Curt Sigfstead

And and and the pressures of that work and and make their lives that much more efficient by using a platform like Clio. So lots, lots of dynamics in the marketplace, some external, some internal. But you know, we we sort of stick to the fundamentals which is, you know anything that can add value to the.

00:38:04 Curt Sigfstead

Customer put the customer.

00:38:06 Curt Sigfstead

First, think about how that’s going to help them accelerate revenues, how that’s going to reduce costs, you know, make their day that much.

00:38:12 Curt Sigfstead

More efficient. That’s been sort of at the core of Clio since the founding of the company, which Jack founded the company with, with Ryan so.

00:38:20 Curt Sigfstead

So it’s been good.

00:38:21 Curt Sigfstead

To be in the position that we’re in as as a lot of these changes occur and and and evolve.

00:38:26 Rob Hanna

And yeah, I I see that first hand having the you know the the benefit of of of interviewing many of the C-Suite are clear. And one one thing that stuck in my mind is there’s a famous saying within product which is fall in love with the problem, not the solution. And that really landed with me in terms of how transfixed you are. Like you say in terms of freeing up their time becoming more efficient.

00:38:46 Rob Hanna

Moving those.

00:38:47 Rob Hanna

Headaches really getting to the heart of that problem being transfixed on that to ensure that you can make their lives better. And I thought that was just, you know, so touching to what you were. You were saying there, let’s move to macro trends. You know, what macro trends are you currently watching in legal, but also tech and the broader economy?

00:38:59

Yeah.

00:39:06 Rob Hanna

And that will ultimately, perhaps influence Clio’s road map?

00:39:10 Curt Sigfstead

You asked that question at a very interesting time log as we’ve gone through a incredibly turbulent week in.

00:39:17 Curt Sigfstead

The markets and with respect to international trade at a very high level, we’re we’re watching what’s going on in the world just as much as everybody else is. And we are, you know, trying to define what may be a slower economic outlook versus one that remains on track and it’s.

00:39:37 Curt Sigfstead

If nothing, it’s difficult, but two, it sort of focuses you on just really agile business management, which is agility both in terms of managing the company, but agility in terms of solutions for your customers as they navigate this as well and.

00:39:53 Curt Sigfstead

I think that you know for us, the thing that might change a little bit as we sort of deal with this macro and I’ll get into some of the aspects of the macro, but certainly been clouded over the last couple of weeks is you just tend to stick to what you know and you tend to drive a little bit slower. You know it’s like going driving in the fog.

00:40:14 Curt Sigfstead

Like as things get the visibility.

00:40:15 Curt Sigfstead

Gets a little bit less.

00:40:17 Curt Sigfstead

You keep moving forward, you do a little bit further in terms of cheques and sort of balances as you move forward, you don’t stop, you keep the momentum going.

00:40:26 Curt Sigfstead

But you may not sort of drive at 60 miles an hour when you can’t see more than 10 feet in front of you. And so you.

00:40:33 Curt Sigfstead

Know we’ll we’ll keep moving forward.

00:40:35 Curt Sigfstead

We’ve got a tremendous opportunity ahead of us. The balance to sort of that, call it, economic uncertainty that that certainly has emerged and you can see it in the way some of the equity analysts are talking about.

00:40:47 Curt Sigfstead

Software and you know, in the public markets is that.

00:40:52 Curt Sigfstead

We’re still at the.

00:40:53

Very.

00:40:53 Curt Sigfstead

Early stages of digital.

00:40:55 Curt Sigfstead

Transformation in the in the the legal profession.

00:40:59 Curt Sigfstead

And and the core of what we deliver and obviously many of the other players in the industry is efficiency and opportunity to make the work life situation that much better. And so I think these are, you know, these are markets where you know the the.

00:41:19 Curt Sigfstead

Sort of. The strong tend to get stronger. Those who provide the most customer value continue to you know, gain the momentum in terms of their advantage.

00:41:30 Curt Sigfstead

And those who are, you know, sort of a little bit less clear on their mission, you know, to have to find sort of a new path forward, so.

00:41:41 Curt Sigfstead

So despite all this.

00:41:42 Curt Sigfstead

We remain incredibly optimistic, Rob, on in terms of the opportunity for Clio as someone mentioned to me, it’s.

00:41:50 Curt Sigfstead

Sort of like a traders.

00:41:51 Curt Sigfstead

Environment like you can predict the next month.

00:41:54 Curt Sigfstead

The next two years is kind of difficult, even three years, but you know long term that this all has to happen. Like with respect to the transformation and in various industries around broader software and technology and so we feel confident that we’re in the right spot, but we’re probably.

00:42:14 Curt Sigfstead

Checking our pace and checking our progress that much more frequently just to ensure that we don’t lose our way in.

00:42:21 Curt Sigfstead

In what is?

00:42:22 Curt Sigfstead

You know, frankly a cloudy, no pun intended, you know, outlook.

00:42:26 Rob Hanna

I think the key message there is there’s only one way you’ll look where you’re looking, and that is, even if it’s at a slower pace, you’re still looking forward with caution and and you know I think that’s such a good point to to sort of focus on there that you know and look the only constant in business is always going to be changed. You know, you just look at.

00:42:33 Curt Sigfstead

Absolutely.

00:42:41 Rob Hanna

The whole evolution.

00:42:42 Rob Hanna

Of the last, I think to my.

00:42:43 Rob Hanna

Grandfather around his law firm in the 1950s, you know, bricks and mortar.

00:42:46 Rob Hanna

Paper desks you.

00:42:47 Rob Hanna

Name it. All of that sort of. You know, the way that’s transfixed over a short period of time in less than 100 years, you think another sort of 1020 years on where the world of legal tech is gonna be. I think it’s hugely exciting. And we’ve touched on a.

00:43:00 Rob Hanna

Guy and I wanna ask a sort of more specific question because it is becoming an automation, a really big part of the legal tech world. How is clear OA approaching these advancements whilst keeping?

00:43:12 Rob Hanna

At the centre of innovation.

00:43:15 Curt Sigfstead

Yeah. So yeah, one thing just to go back on the point that we that we just talked about then I’ll grab.

00:43:21 Curt Sigfstead

I’ll jump to the AI piece is.

00:43:24 Curt Sigfstead

The the fortunate perspective I bring is is we sort of went through my career background as I as I went through, you know, the tech depression of 2001, I went through the Great Recession.

00:43:35 Curt Sigfstead

And you know.

00:43:36 Curt Sigfstead

The the lessons as we sort of touched on that that are timeless or that companies that stayed focused on their mission stay moving forward.

00:43:45 Curt Sigfstead

Remained in control of their destiny, came out of those periods stronger than ever. And you know, that’s exactly the type of motion that we have here at Clio and that that, you know, the game plan that we’re we’re pursuing. And so that that doesn’t change and and that that’s related to your question around AI, which is.

00:44:05 Curt Sigfstead

You know our our approach has always been to build AI from the professional or from, you know, the legal professional standpoint. So it’s not AI for the sake of AI.

00:44:18 Curt Sigfstead

It’s not AI built on, you know, a a platform that doesn’t respect or manage confidentiality in a way that’s critically important to our customers. And so we, you know, we took a very step by step collaborative approach with our customers.

00:44:38 Curt Sigfstead

In building our product on our platform and so.

00:44:42 Curt Sigfstead

You know, we we see duo as that first step and we’ve gotten great feedback on on duo and we’re continuing to refine it and build that as we go forward, but we won’t.

00:44:56 Curt Sigfstead

We’re not going to do anything, Clio. That’s not customer 1st and. And so that may mean that we’re maybe a little bit slower or a little bit more deliberate, but we know at the end of the day that you.

00:45:08 Curt Sigfstead

Know our we’re.

00:45:09 Curt Sigfstead

Selling trust every day to our customers and that that trust just can’t be broken over. You know, an accelerated.

00:45:15 Curt Sigfstead

Timeline or, you know, a product that we haven’t thought through with our customers, so.

00:45:20 Curt Sigfstead

You know that’s that’s how.

00:45:21 Curt Sigfstead

We’re approaching it and we see a huge opportunity for it. It’s in a critical part of our whole go forward product strategy, but it’s not something we’re going to compromise on with respect to our customers.

00:45:33 Rob Hanna

Yeah, and it takes a takes a long time to build up a reputation and trust, and it can take, like you say, maybe just chasing something shiny or doing something just because of what else is going on and not staying true to your mission and your core values and.

00:45:45 Rob Hanna

Again, that’s absolutely what Clio has set clear. Apart from my experience of working and for everything, I see that you.

00:45:50 Rob Hanna

Are so focused.

00:45:51 Rob Hanna

On that mission. And so like you said, if it takes a little bit of time, but you get it right and actually the end product and the experience and everything that goes with that is exponentially good.

00:46:00 Rob Hanna

Then it’s a win win.

00:46:01 Rob Hanna

And before we, we look to close and it’s been a thoroughly.

00:46:04 Rob Hanna

Enjoyable conversation as viewers.

00:46:05

Yeah.

00:46:05 Rob Hanna

Right speaker, it’s just challenges, you know.

00:46:08 Rob Hanna

What are the?

00:46:09 Rob Hanna

Biggest challenges law firms face today that Clio is looking to work hard to to solve.

00:46:17 Curt Sigfstead

I I think there’s couple. You know, I think 1 is getting visibility on their operations, just really understanding their business more and more so that they can allocate resources, hiring customer or client focus more effectively investing those resources. I think that that is.

00:46:38 Curt Sigfstead

One of the key things that legal firms, both large and small, are trying to get their heads around 2 is uh, you know, ensuring that they’ve got the right partner, the right vendor for them on the technology front.

00:46:52 Curt Sigfstead

You know, depending on the nature of the size of the law firm, it’s a little bit different. It’s, you know, for our smaller customers, it’s about having that partner that can provide as much as possible. And on the larger customer side, it’s about having a best of breed partner that really understands their needs from top to bottom and can help them execute on their strategies.

00:47:13 Curt Sigfstead

I think 3 they’re trying to hire the best talent possible, which is always, you know, the challenge of any law firm.

00:47:21 Curt Sigfstead

And you know, having a a very.

00:47:25 Curt Sigfstead

Lawyer or attorney friendly platform in terms of technology is is actually part of the hiring benefit for some of these law firms and they do win talent as a.

00:47:35 Curt Sigfstead

Result and so.

00:47:38 Curt Sigfstead

And and three is that there’s changing customer demands in terms of the level of service, the capabilities that the law firms can offer and and being there as a partner and and when needed, making sure that they have access to their, to their legal professional and so.

00:47:58 Curt Sigfstead

I I don’t think.

00:48:01 Curt Sigfstead

Some of those challenges have really changed per say, you know, except for some of the, you know, adoption of AI and some of the, you know, making sure that you get your cases cited right, for example, but.

00:48:14 Curt Sigfstead

But they’ve been elevated in this environment and just because the stakes are higher and you know the opportunity, there is so much bigger given the leverage that you can get from the right, right technology parts.

00:48:27 Curt Sigfstead

So yeah, we’re we’re excited about the challenges, the challenges give us our opportunity and and our ability to meet with our customers and and.

00:48:35 Curt Sigfstead

To help them.

00:48:36 Curt Sigfstead

You know, achieve their goals, so it’s it’s been great to see those challenges met by Clio and obviously.

00:48:47 Curt Sigfstead

Others technology providers, as well as as lawyers, face a changing backdrop, and it, you know, an outlook that is is certainly rapidly evolving.

00:49:00 Rob Hanna

Yeah. And just picking up on your, your points around talent. You know having, you know, been recruiting in big law for over a decade around the globe. You know, when I first got into this, a lot of the conversations used to be about comp or career progression. And of course, they’re still important in culture. But one of the common questions we get now is, can you tell me about their tech stack? You know, what is, what is the tech that they’re using? Because I don’t want to move.

00:49:21 Rob Hanna

If, if they’re using clunky because you know like to your point, they want to be working in efficient, you know, high modern environments where they can perform at their best. So they can free up time to do that strategic thinking that human touch. And so it really, really is important. I’m seeing that first hand from people actually considering the career moves and. And so I guess with that some, some last piece of.

00:49:41 Rob Hanna

Career advice from from your side, Curt, what advice would you give to those interested in venturing into the world of legal tech and perhaps those who are quite keen and they’ve been inspired by Clio’s acquisitions today, if they want to learn more about acquisitions, what would you say to that?

00:49:57 Curt Sigfstead

Yeah, I would say this is a tremendous opportunity that’s only going to continue to grow. We’re the very early meanings of this transformation in legal. It’s a $3 trillion plus global industry that’s going through a massive transformation. I mean think about healthcare 20 years ago, think about I.

00:50:17 Curt Sigfstead

T40 years ago.

00:50:20 Curt Sigfstead

You know, legal tech is going through a huge change and that’s going to result in a huge opportunity for those who are interested in legal tech. So you know my.

00:50:32 Curt Sigfstead

Advice is to get in early and.

00:50:34 Curt Sigfstead

Get it now and you know with respect to.

00:50:39 Curt Sigfstead

Umm.

00:50:40 Curt Sigfstead

Some of the areas of focus or you know the M and a type of opportunity, I I I think that you know first and foremost there’s sort of the fundamental aspects of M&A and and valuation and all of those tools and process which you can pick up you know in in lots of different areas and and industries but.

00:51:01 Curt Sigfstead

You know, you got to start early and legal because there is a lot of complexity. And so if you’re interested in that as a career path, it’s better to get in early, build those relationships, build the understanding of the space.

00:51:12 Curt Sigfstead

And and then you’ve got a long opportunity ahead of you, I mean.

00:51:16 Curt Sigfstead

We’re we kind of, I think sometimes think that this is already well, well supplied or well covered by the existing companies. But you think about the global opportunity here, it’s it’s absolutely massive and it hasn’t even been scratched.

00:51:32 Rob Hanna

And that’s the exciting part, right? And I I love that you you touched on there and mentor said to me very early on, Rob into my career and before starting business contacts are good, but it’s the relationships that pay and Clio really invests well in those relationships across.

00:51:46 Rob Hanna

You know, on that car, I’ve enjoyed our relationship. You know, it’s the second time we’ve been able to to do this recording. So if our listeners.

00:51:52 Rob Hanna

Want to to follow you, or indeed.

00:51:54 Rob Hanna

Learn more about.

00:51:55 Rob Hanna

Clio, where can they go to find out more? Feel free to share any websites or social media handles.

00:52:00 Curt Sigfstead

Yeah, I’m on LinkedIn. You can obviously.

00:52:03 Curt Sigfstead

Go to www.clio.

00:52:05 Curt Sigfstead

Dot com you know and and, you know, find us and and.

00:52:09 Curt Sigfstead

You know, we’ve got Clios on Instagram, Clio, you can follow us on LinkedIn. There’s lots of opportunity to kind of hook up with the company, so.

00:52:19 Curt Sigfstead

Yeah. Please, please.

00:52:21 Curt Sigfstead

Look us up. Search us out. We got a lot of stuff. Exciting stuff happening and thank you, Rob, for a fantastic conversation. Really appreciate it.

00:52:28 Rob Hanna

No, it just leads us to say thanks so much once again to you, Curt, it’s been an absolute pleasure having you back on the legally speaking podcast.

00:52:33 Rob Hanna

Sponsored by Clio, but from now, from all of us, over and out. Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. If you like the content here, why not check out our world leading content and collaboration club that legally speaking club over on Discord goes to our website, www.legallyspeakingpodcast.com has a link to join our community. Over and out.