Clio Con Clips 2025 – A.J. Axelrod – E09

Transcript

Robert Hanna  0:00  

Welcome to Clio con clips 2025 recorded live from Boston and proudly sponsored by Clio, the world’s leading legal technology company, transforming the legal experience for all. I’m your host, Rob Hanna, and over this special legally speaking podcast series, we’ll be bringing you exclusive conversation with the brilliant minds behind Clio, the innovators, strategists, visionaries, driving one of the most transformative companies in legal tech. Across these interviews, we’ll explore how Clio is uniting brilliance across teams, technology and communities worldwide, from AI and data to leadership culture and the future of client experience, you’ll hear from people shaping what’s next for law and redefining what’s possible for legal professionals everywhere. So whether you’re a lawyer, technologist or leader passionate about innovation, you’re in the right place. This Clio conclips 2025 is where brilliance meets purpose and the future of law take shape. Let’s get into it. The a welcome to the legally speaking podcast recording live here from Boston for our Clio con clips 2025 sponsored by Clio. And I’m joined by

A.J. Axelrod  1:12  

my name is AJ, VP of payments and financial services at

Robert Hanna  1:16  

Clio. You absolutely are, and it’s a real pleasure to have you on the show live here at Boston. But before we get into it, what’s one fun fact people may not know about you here at Clio con, I don’t

A.J. Axelrod  1:25  

know how fun it is, but it is unique. I am allergic to pineapples.

Robert Hanna  1:29  

Oh, wow. Okay, so pineapple and Han pizza, that’s out of the

A.J. Axelrod  1:33  

question. I also grew up in New York, so pineapple and pizza is out of the question. But for me personally, Yeah, unfortunately, that or a fruit salad with pineapple, and it gets a little

Robert Hanna  1:41  

dangerous, absolutely. Well, let’s get into it, because it’s been an incredible Clio con. We heard from Jackson, oh, a lot of updates, particularly in your area. You’ve introduced pay later with a firm and Clio capital. So how will these reshape how firms and clients experience legal payments?

A.J. Axelrod  1:57  

Yeah, let’s start with the mission, transforming legal services for all. Lack of access is a major issue, right? And it’s hard enough to find a lawyer. It’s hard enough to find a good one. It’s hard enough to get through an engagement, to navigate the system, to add, you know, constraints of the financial system as another barrier is, you know, it’s unfortunate, I guess, to say the least. And you know, there’s no there’s no panacea, there’s no perfect solution for this, but I think it’s a worthwhile endeavour. So if we start with pay later, you know, with a firm, the reality is law firms, you know, too often, are actually getting into the business of being a creditor or a lender. Right people on payment plans and following up and doing this correspondence, and that’s taking time away from some from serving clients, yeah. And so hopefully that, you know, that shifts some of that burden gives clients optionality and how they pay. And I think important for us also to remember that, you know, particularly in the US, not everyone has access to credit. Not many people have actually enough money. Should there be an emergency? And so this helps, you know, give them some of that. I think the other side is we think about Clio capital is, if we think about Clio as, as it, you know, was historically an incredibly powerful set of tools right for, for running, sort of the business of law, as Jack talked about today. And now we think about like velex And coming soon, right? And about sort of the practice of law. But again, tools right. The other side of that is resources. And you know, many law firms are small businesses. Small businesses have challenges with cash flow and capital. They want to invest in growth. They want to have that flexibility as resources. And so to the extent we can make that easy, use the data we have in our system to make sure you get a great offer. Make repayment easy. That means no more navigating this complex system of like, how do I get a loan? How do I fund this business? Right? Just make it easy. Happen in the product. Meet you where you are and get you back to what you should be doing, which is serving

Robert Hanna  3:50  

clients. I love that, and I love I talk a lot about, you know, the more you can remove friction, yeah. And actually, you know, ease that process. The adoption levels go up, the higher you get. More client centred. You don’t

Unknown Speaker  3:59  

love going to the bank and filling out forms.

Robert Hanna  4:02  

Yeah, exactly. I want to go a bit deeper, because legal affordability is one of the biggest sort of access to justice barriers that we were touching on there. So how do these tools actually help close that gap? Specifically?

A.J. Axelrod  4:13  

Yeah, let’s just focus on on pay later for a second. Yeah, the average bill on Clio is is a big number for the average person. Yeah, right. You know, I forget the exact number, but if we look at how much does the average sort of American have in their savings right now for an emergency, it’s like $400 yeah. And you know, the average paid bill on Clio is a lot more than $400 and so, you know, if someone wants to engage with a lawyer and they don’t have that money, say, right now for a trust retainer. Or, you know, they don’t have right now to pay that bill, but they want to. Yeah, this eliminates that part with the sort of what could be an embarrassing back and forth with the lawyer if I can’t afford this, yeah. But also, the lawyer no longer has to do, like, as a payment plan, or should I wait a little to get work started? It’s get paid up front, move the process of dealing with that onto someone whose job is that in a firm, yeah? And you can just get on with it.

Robert Hanna  5:09  

Yeah. Love that. And it’s so important, isn’t it, the more we can do that, the amount of impact you can have. I know Cleo, you know that mission is true, transform the legal experience for all of that. Yeah, and that’s, that’s, that’s huge. Okay, so how do you ensure, then financial compliance and trust? Big words, when embedding new FinTech solutions into Clio payments,

A.J. Axelrod  5:27  

we take compliance very seriously, and we take trust enormously seriously as well. I think the first thing is, you know, we adhere to the highest standards of security. We make sure that that information is safe and secure to the absolute highest standard, and in terms of compliance, you know, we take that burden incredibly seriously. And I think the way we deal with it is in two parts. One, we work with only the most reputable partners. Yeah, the reality is, in any financial system, you don’t do it alone. You’re integrated into a much larger ecosystem. We’re only working with great partners, and we will prioritise that partnership, the quality of it and how they deal with these issues much higher than we will, you know, that extra basis point of revenue. And, you know, we, we go out of our way to make sure we’re not even flirting with that line of compliance.

Robert Hanna  6:10  

Yeah, I love that. And I always talk a lot about we is greater than me. And people be sick and tired of me talking about this on the show. But collaboration is domination. But Clio do it so well, and I see that from all the various partners you have, it’s incredible. And one thing you also do super well, and Jack touched on his keynote, is listening. So what feedback are you hearing from firms already using these products? And what have you been most excited

A.J. Axelrod  6:31  

about? Yeah. So, I mean, let’s just focus on core payments here for a second. Clio payments gets you paid two and a half times faster. Yeah. And so, you know, with lock up being around 90 days, we can ask Joshua exactly the particular number in the legal Trends report. But suffice to say, that’s a long time compared to most businesses, and so to get you paid faster means running that business a little bit easier. It also means getting onto client work a little bit better. We get great feedback around that excited about where text to pay has gone on. So if you aren’t using text by please go turn it on. And you know you saw today, right with the reaction to pay later and to capital people applauding. And we’re just really excited about it, that that code actually shipped on Monday morning, and without us saying anything, over 50 customers found it in settings and turned it on. So, yeah, just very excited. That kind of feedbacks the best, right? Using

Robert Hanna  7:22  

it? Yeah, use a bit. Using it, yeah, usability, adoption, and that shows how willing your existing clients are and wanting of tech and these features. And one thing Jack said actually during this was during this series F rays, when it was the 900 million that legal tech is now at the table. Because historically, FinTech has been years and light years ahead of legal tech. Legal tech, in recent years, has really kind of come up. So in terms of FinTech and legal tech now sort of intersecting, where do you see the biggest opportunity for growth?

A.J. Axelrod  7:48  

I mean, there’s so many choices. I think it’s important to maybe, like, zoom out a second. Like, Fintech is this horizontal application of, how do we take financial services, which have been in sort of a walled garden, hard to access, and make them easily accessible, yeah. And that the pillars of financial services have always been about distribution, underwriting and cost of capital. And software companies like Clio have great distribution and underwrite. We know all these things about you that show that you’re a good business, yeah. And, and we’re meeting you where you are. And so I think that intersection is like, these things belong together, and and financial services are must consume products. They’re not optional. So we should make them as pain free as possible, as high quality as possible, and meet you like contextually in a way that matters to you. Like, you know, I joke, but like, going to the bank is not a fun experience, and it takes away from what you are doing. And so if we can make that work better, it’s hugely impactful to just like running a better

Robert Hanna  8:48  

firm. And you know, it gives us our greatest commodity back, which is time. Yeah, you know. And that’s one thing, you know, we all want to protect where possible. And that kind of leans into what you’re saying around quality and everything else. And the whole theme this year of Clio con is uniting brilliance. So, you know, how does uniting brilliant sort of apply to bridging finance, technology and law all under one ecosystem? I

A.J. Axelrod  9:07  

think the best sort of financial services transactions, if you will, are the ones that disappear you don’t even notice them. Yeah, right, you know, you know, sort of like, if you if you notice what paying for something was like, it’s usually because it didn’t go away. And so, you know, I think what we look for in this, like this brilliant moment, if you will, is like, it’s the, you know, when Amazon bring us, like, brings us just a click to pay, or just make things easy, yeah, and, and that’s where this stuff comes together in the ecosystem. But to do that, well, it has to be interconnected. It can’t just be like, hey, these two things are next to each other. It has to meet you like in that moment, right? Whether it’s your billing workflow or you’re starting a firm for the first time, you know, do you are you bringing those things, like I said before, in contextually specific

Robert Hanna  9:53  

way? Yeah, because if you don’t, if you confuse people, you’ll lose people. And I say that so much, and the more you can kind of just simplify. And make it sometimes. And also it’s better to be clear than it is to be clever. Sometimes you can kind of just keep it simplicity. You’ll see adoption levels go up, and happiness levels go up, and all of that good stuff. The feedback will come racing in, and you can continue moving forwards, which has been a big theme of this conference, in terms of moving forward, in terms of, obviously, a system of action. So looking ahead for you, in terms of what excites you most about the future of Clio payments and Financial Innovation and law, what do

A.J. Axelrod  10:23  

you say? I mean, we have an incredibly, I think, compelling vision around where billing and payments and now taking that next step into capital. Yeah. You know, are to try to, just like, make you the most successful firm you can be, and to make sure you know that it’s success defined on your terms. Yeah. So for some people, that’s growth. For some people, that may just be time back, whatever it may be, but to just to have this opportunity for this stuff to just be easy, be clear, and to let you succeed on whatever those terms are for you, is just super exciting. For me,

Robert Hanna  10:55  

yeah, and I can feel that energy, and it’s just so exciting all round. And we touched on this bit earlier, but I want to go a little bit deeper again before we look to close. Before we look to close. Legal finance has traditionally lagged behind other sectors in innovation specifically. So what cultural or mindset shift Do you think still needs to happen inside firms for FinTech adoption to really take off?

A.J. Axelrod  11:15  

You know, I think we’re in, like, a really great transition moment in the legal industry. You would have said this about, like, any technology in law and AI, I think it’s like, dramatically changed how people are thinking so in this moment of adoption that I think is great, like, what has to happen is we need to do, you know, even more at delivering these things in a way that is specific to how you practice law, yes. And so it’s not, you know, here’s a, you know, here’s a revolving line of credit. And you’re like, what does that mean? You know? Or like, you know, the difference between that and a term loan or instalment based it’s we need to take away that financial language and make it meet people where they are, which is as lawyers. And so that’s the major innovation, is just delivering things to people you know in their day to day at the right moment, in an easy way to understand. That doesn’t require you to, sort of like, go find, you know, when you were in law school, to go find the friend who was getting his MBA or her MBA. Like, can you just explain to me what they just said? Yeah, I

Robert Hanna  12:14  

think that’s crucial, isn’t it? And again, I say this so much to people, and you’re talking about being specific. But if specific is terrific. The more you can be specific, the more adoption you’re going to have, the far more greater success you’re going to have. And AJ, you’ve had huge success, and you made a real impact with your role and what you’re doing at Clio and let’s go to Clio con then, because this has been another incredible year. I know we’re still quite early on into day one, but what’s been a highlight moment for you thus far of Clio con? This

A.J. Axelrod  12:39  

is my first Clio con. So it’s all highlight at this point, but the keynote this morning is just incredible. Jackson, phenomenal on stage, of course, but to see the reaction from the audience and to know that the things you’re doing really fill their need, you don’t want to just build a thing for the sake of building it. You want to make a difference in your customers lives. And to see those reactions, I think, is just reminds you that you are making a difference and inspires you to go do more. Yeah, and you

Robert Hanna  13:05  

could hear that in the audience, you know, where people were celebrating the products that you’ve been working day in, day out, on and strategizing on. And there was a real roar when going through a lot of the Clio payments, Clio capital and everything else. And so, testament to you, testament to the team and everything you’re doing. And if people want to know more about Clio or indeed, things you’re working on or building, where’s the best place for them to for them to go? Is it LinkedIn, social media? Is there an

A.J. Axelrod  13:25  

email address? I think starting on clio.com is the best place to go, you know, particularly around payments, it would be, you know, slash payments. But you know, if you’re a Clio customer, reach out. You know, if there’s something specifically I can be helpful on, you can find me on LinkedIn. I think there’s only one. AJ, Axelrod, so it shouldn’t be that hard to find me, but there’s a tonne of resources at your disposal around Clio, and I’d encourage you to just engage with all of them, and where there’s an opportunity to talk to one of us, we’d be more than happy to try to help. You couldn’t

Robert Hanna  13:55  

agree more. Well. AJ, it’s been an absolute pleasure live here in Boston, sharing how Clio is revolutionising all things legal, finance and client accessibility. But for now, from all of us on the legally speaking podcast, sponsored by Clio, over and out. Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. If you like the content here, why not check out our world leading content and Collaboration Hub, the legally speaking club over on Discord. Go to our website, www.legallyspeakingpodcast.com, there’s a link to join our community there, over and out.