On today’s Legally Speaking Podcast, I’m delighted to be joined by Marcin Durlak.  Marcin is the Managing Partner and Co-Founder of IMD Solicitors LLP, an award-winning boutique firm recognised for its culture-first leadership and bold innovations. He and his wife and business partner,were jointly named Managing Partners of the Year at the 2025 ModernLaw Awards, after pioneering a 4-day working week with 100% pay whilst achieving record growth and world-class satisfaction. Passionate about culture-first leadership, Marcin is redefining what success looks like in the legal industry. From arriving in the UK with 1 suitcase to running an award-winning firm, his story is proof that bold ideas can transform both business and lives.

So why should you be listening in? 

You can hear Rob and Marcin discussing:

– Pioneering a Four-Day Work Week in Legal Practice

– Building IMD Solicitors: From Language Skills to Award-Winning Firm

– Overcoming Challenges and Embracing Continuous Improvement

– Leveraging Technology and Innovation for Growth

– Cultivating Culture, Team, and Balanced Firm Expansion

Connect with Marcin Durlak here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcin-durlak

Transcript

Marcin Durlak  0:00  

With us. We’ll make a decision today. We implement it tomorrow. IMD translation evolved into a firm providing specialist legal translation, interpreting to law firms. There was definitely gap in the market for us, and for many, many years, this operated by providing services to IMD solicitors as a law firm. It’s about how you can leverage it, how you can make the most of it, how you can adapt. Everyone’s been working on a four day week, and we’re not even looking back. We’ve achieved 29% growth in profitability with everyone being on a four day week. So it’s working for us.

Robert Hanna  0:34  

On today’s legally speaking podcast, I’m delighted to be joined by Martin durlak. Martin is the managing partner and co founder of IMD solicitors, an award winning boutique firm recognised for its culture first, leadership and bold innovations. He and his wife and business partner were jointly named managing partners of the Year at the 2025 Modern Law awards after pioneering a four day working week with 100% pay whilst achieving record growth and world class satisfaction. Passionate about culture first leadership, Martin is redefining what success looks like in the legal industry. From arriving in the UK with one suitcase to running an award winning firm, his story is proof that old ideas can transform both business and lives. So a very big, warm welcome to the show. Martin,

Marcin Durlak  1:21  

Hi, Rob, thank you so much for inviting me. Pleasure to be here. It’s an absolute pleasure

Robert Hanna  1:25  

to have you on the show. Before we get into today’s discussion, which I’m thoroughly looking forward to, we do have a customary icebreaker question here on the legally speaking podcast, which is on the scale of one to 10, with 10 being very real. What would you rate the hit TV series suits in terms of its reality, of the law, if you’ve seen it.

Marcin Durlak  1:44  

So must admit, I’ve not seen it. I To be perfectly honest, I don’t watch much television on Netflix. I just try to try to allocate my time to family, work and sport. And there’s not much left, I’m

Robert Hanna  1:59  

afraid. So No, and we can give it a zero and move swiftly on. And yeah, you’ve been doing some incredible things on all of those footings. But I want to start at the beginning, if I may, could you tell our listeners a bit about your background and career

Marcin Durlak  2:10  

journey? Yeah, sure. So I’m originally from Poland. Have been living in the UK for almost 21 years. Decided to move to the UK, back in 2004 my when my native, native Poland joined European Union, meant to be a gap year, a year and a half later, went back to Poland to to take my bar entry exam, failed, came back to came back to the UK. Kind of did some planning and started applying to every single law firm around, and eventually got the job as a legal administrator in a boutique law firm in Manchester. And I think I’ve always had this idea to combine my language skills and the legal education. So back in 2007 went to the managing director of the firm I start as legal administrator. Suggested, actually, I think I can develop some business, and I’ll be forever grateful to him for giving me, for giving me the independence and support. And yeah, I think since 2007 you know, the date has grown from a one month bond with Me doing everything, obviously working on the client cases and the supervision through doing all my DIY marketing, SEO, Google ads to award winning boutique law firm with a team approaching 50, with some awards and accreditations like the Sunday Times, best places to work, climbing up the ladder in legal 500 so it’s been quite a journey. It’s quite a journey and

Robert Hanna  3:57  

an inspiring one, and that’s why I wanted to have you on the show to sort of have that discussion and congratulations on what you’ve achieved thus far, and indeed what you’re going to achieve. But want to cast your mind back to 20 years ago when you arrived to the UK after completing that master’s in law in Poland. What were the factors convincing you UK was where you wanted to build your career?

Marcin Durlak  4:19  

To be honest with you, it was a little bit random. In a sense. It was fitting my language skills. The other language, polish is my native language. I’ve been living in Manchester for almost 20 years, still working on my Mancunian accent. But yeah, the English is my second language effectively. So the choice really was between America, England or the United Kingdom. And having been to America a couple of times on our work and travel programme during university years, I thought, well, never been to the UK. So with my then girlfriend, we decided, well, let’s go to the UK for a year and and so yeah, that was the. Uh, that was that the reason really fitting my language skills,

Robert Hanna  5:05  

yeah, and playing to your strengths and building to your profile, it all makes sense. And you know, I guess one thing you spoke very openly about before, which we really appreciate on the show, is authenticity about about failure and rejection. And so you faced countless rejections from law firms in sort of part of your process before moving to Manchester. So what was your mindset during that period, potentially, people who might be facing failure or rejection at the moment, and how did you stay motivated?

Marcin Durlak  5:30  

Yeah, I think we just need to realise that the failure is just part of the journey, any journey. And yeah, very much encourage our team to try and fail and try again and fail again. And you know, just pick yourself up and move forward, right? And just going back to my journey, naturally. My original plan was to qualify as a solicitor in Poland. I took my barren to a exam I failed, and had to redefine my path and my journey then we originally moved. Actually spent first couple of years in in north Wales. So having failed a bar exam, bar entry exam in Poland, I started applying to every single offer in north Wales. In a hindsight, I’m probably happy that, you know, the eventually I wasn’t accepted anywhere. But my mindset was, okay, well, what can I do about it? So and the decision was, we need to relocate to the bigger city, being Manchester. Actually, the choice was between Liverpool and Manchester, and with me being Manchester United fund, the choice was obvious, okay, we relocate to Manchester, and as we speak, actually, we have office next to old tractor. I’m just watching old Trapper stadium from the window now.

Speaker 2  6:44  

So the little bit of Manchester United in my in my story as a motivation. But, yeah,

Robert Hanna  6:50  

this is gonna have to be a first on the legally speaking podcast. A lot of our fans will know I’m a very passionate Liverpool fan. We’re gonna have to terminate this interview on the grounds of,

Speaker 2  7:00  

well, it’s 2020, now, so, but Liverpool is more likely at the moment, to get the 21st title, I think,

Robert Hanna  7:07  

well, let’s see. Let’s see. But, yeah, all jokes aside, thank you for sharing that. I always use the acronym lose when it comes to rejection, which is, you don’t actually lose. It’s just life offering some experience. I think if you can have that mentality and keep going through all the adversities, it’s just part of your journey. And rejection is a redirection, and you’ve been able to redirect and do some incredible things, which we’re going to talk more about as we go through your journey. So let’s go to the utilisation of language skills. You kind of focused on that, because I believe at Henry solicitors, you pitched the idea of actually using your language skills to serve the Polish community. So what impact has this had on your career? Yeah.

Marcin Durlak  7:41  

I mean, that’s where we started. That was actually our original idea, to be able to speak the client language and be able to provide the service in the client language, where it expanded from just me being able to speak Polish and communicate with the client and provide them with advice on original and obviously supervision of other lawyers. It has grown into the team speaking around 18 languages across different specialism. But so it played a key role in kind of building the foundation of the business as it is. But I think in terms of the vision and it’s another thing I believe in, you just need to adapt as you go along. You need to redefine your maybe the vision or the priorities or the branding. In our case, originally, it was about the language that we able to speak, but then we quickly realised it’s not really only about the language. It’s about the cultural understanding. It’s about the sensitivity. It’s about, you know, understanding client that might be coming from, you know, abroad and having different issues, whether it’s a business client coming into the UK and expanding into the UK, or individuals settling here. So I think it’s more about this cultural like understanding and in terms of where we evolved, the journey was from speaking the language or speaking me speaking the language, then a team speak other languages, to developing expertise in a cross border work in English jurisdiction. And it’s interesting how you pivot and evolve. And I think you just need to stay open minded to be able to redefine the path as you go along. So failures and rejection and dealing with it and drawing the line and moving on is one thing, but then adapting and redefining your path is another important aspect, especially in the age of AI, absolutely, and it’s a really

Robert Hanna  9:35  

important word, isn’t it? Adaptability, because if nothing changes, nothing changes. You’re going to continue making the same mistakes, and you need to be adaptable, as you say, particularly in the age of AI, and I think also taking an element of accountability. I remember a mentor said very early on to me, Rob, if it’s meant to be it’s up to me. You need to take self accountability. You can’t keep pointing the finger and expecting you know everything to go your way. You need to look at yourself and things things you could be do differently or. Be learning from to move forward. And you’ve touched on, you know, earlier, a few of your other skill sets. Because as a sort of law firm founder, you mentioned SEO, and again, kind of sticking with adaptability as a theme. In 2007 you invested in building a website, learning SEO and running Google ads. So how is that different from the norm for the legal sector at the time? You know what? I think,

Marcin Durlak  10:22  

just looking back, I think now I’m more self aware than I was 20 years ago, but looking at my personality, I’ve always been so I suppose my natural personality, I’m more of an introvert than extrovert. So for me, more natural approach was sitting in front of my computer, sitting up in front of my laptop, diving in, into the SEO and doing my DIY sort of website optimization, rather than going out and network. I do go out, attend events, conferences, and I’ve learned to do that. And again, you know it’s I’ve been pushing myself outside of my comfort zone, and I’m happy with it, but not back 20 years ago. My natural approach was, well, how I can, you know, improve and how I can do deal with digital marketing. It’s not typical, I suppose, for for, for your lawyers, but, but yeah, I’ve always been passionate about the technology and it and yeah, back in 2007 I still remember kind of paying equivalent of couple 100 pound for a domain, which is sort of Polish equivalent of solicitor.co.uk, paying another couple 100 pound for the website design and development. You know, back in Poland, doing my own DIY and starting Google ads. It was back 2007 and it worked, right? You know, the inquiry started coming in. Business started coming in. And, you know, as soon, soon after, it kept me busy. So we started, you know, recruiting another person to help me out. And the team started growing, and that’s how we met with, with, with my wife and business partner, Ivan. We met essentially, you know, at work, working together on growing this project. And I always say

Robert Hanna  12:12  

you’re only one relationship away from changing your life. I’m going to come on to talking about that story in a moment as well. And you make a good point about the comfort zone, because the comfort zone is great, but nothing ever grows there, right? So if you can find a way to get out of that and kind of go to these things that maybe make you uncomfortable, but you pick up new things. You pick up new skills, networks, opportunities, whatever it may be. So let’s go to 2012 now, because they then created IMD translation. So what in the market were you looking to fill with that? Yeah.

Marcin Durlak  12:42  

So, so when we started 2007 we started growing this, this market kind of mostly catering for Polish, individuals, businesses to start with, and many of the cases we dealt with on the legal side, there was a need for translation and interpreting. So then we thought, okay, there is an opportunity there. So why not, you know, building a book of our own suppliers, translators, interpreters and and essentially providing the service instead of outsourcing, providing the service ourselves. So there was definitely a gap in the market for us. And for many, many years, this operated as essentially a satellite company providing services to Ivan solicitors as a law firm. But three, four years ago now, we just thought, yeah, I mean, there are just so many other firms offering this one, but quality is not always there, and we really understand the legal market were so, yeah, IMD translation evolved into a firm providing specialist legal translation, interpreting to law firms. And quite recently, I have to mention this one. We We launched a new new product, legal translation.ai which is secure, free, confidential equivalence, really, of the Google Translate or chat GPT machine translation, but it’s essential SRA compliance in the sense of providing security. So kind of quite entrepreneurial we are, I think, I suppose, in kind of looking for gaps in the market. And I very much believe, like gonna mention AI and technology. Again, it’s about how you can leverage it, how you can make the most of it, how you can adapt. And you know what I mean? I love just going back to legal, we actually going to be new customers of Clio, sponsors of this cost podcast, literally signed the contract very recently, and had recently had a kick up call, and one of the persons mentioned that, I think it’s Cleo CEO, that mentioned his words I’m going to quote, which I absolutely love, is that AI will not replace lawyer. Users, but lawyers using AI with will replace lawyers that are not using AI, which I think is what it is. You know, we just need to adapt, I suppose, and embrace the technology. What is, what is available. So we have a top topic, sorry, but

Robert Hanna  15:13  

no very much. And we’ve had Jack Newton feature on the show many times. And, you know, we’re big fans, obviously, of Clio. They’ve supported us. And, yeah, I think you know, you’ve got to be tech curious, you’ve got to be open minded, you’ve got to be looking for opportunities as a business owner, because that’s what you are, in addition to, obviously, the servicing of, you know, the day to day role. And I love how you’re leaning into where the puck is going when it comes to tech AI and offering new service offerings, because there’s opportunity isn’t there with it’s a tool. These are all tools that are available to you. The more you can sharpen the acts and get used to them. You can lean into new service offering, offerings, be more client centred, and do some good work. And okay, let’s talk about your your relationship then, because in 2015 you did found IMD solicitors with your wife and now business partner. What inspired you to build your own law firm together, and what was the initial vision for the firm? I know you were touching on that, but take us back to that 2015 period.

Marcin Durlak  16:05  

Yeah, so with Ivan, we met in 2010 so we’ve been growing this department for a number of years, and and we qualified at Henry’s, and then we’ve been kind of growing the department in within the within the firm to start with. But I think we always wanted this kind of independence and being able to be decision makers, and being able to to grow the business, you know, apply, implement our vision. So that was the reinspiration. Really, we wanted to grow with a business and take it into our direction and build our own legacy. And I touched on the vision earlier, right? You know, and I think that’s important part that, you know, yes, of course, your values, your culture, you know, the foundation, the base, will remain the same. But in terms of the vision and direction, I really believe it’s something you need to revisit every three five years. You know this may change, and in November, it’s going to be 10 years since we started trading as IMD. So our original vision was not very different. It pivoted, rather than changed completely. But originally it was about the language being USP. Now we, you know, we have a vision of vision to become the go to law firm for complex you know, matters often with cross jurisdictional element. We have a growing team of, you know, absolutely amazing professionals and partners with the both international and local client following. So it has evolved over the years, and we just need to embrace, embrace it, you know, embrace the change

Robert Hanna  17:52  

you do. And that’s so true, isn’t it, because things do, do change over time. And, you know, that’s just the world that we live in. And I think it’s great that you have that, that mindset as a leader. I think that’s one of the, you know, I always say Boutique is beautiful because you can move quickly. There’s less red tea. There’s ways you can react to markets you don’t have so much to to kind of deal with, where you can hopefully be more client centred as time goes on and technology evolves and market preferences and things happen you’re alluding to there, but just sort of so our listeners are more aware of what are some of the core areas you do specialise in as a firm? Just so folks who might be thinking about services know, yeah.

Marcin Durlak  18:26  

So as IMD solicitors, we do with both business and individuals. So on the business side, it’s mostly commercial litigation, corporate commercial and corporate immigration. On the individual side, family is the largest department. It’s, it’s my wife’s baby. Then we deal with private client probate and and high value personal injury. So there’s quite, quite a few areas, and our team is approaching 50 at the moment, so we’re still very much boutique in size. And yeah, we’re essentially building the team, and it’s always been for us about, I think, both in terms of the clients, the work we do, and the team. It’s about the quality rather than quantity. And we very ambitious. We want to grow but, but we’ve always been saying that, not at all costs. It’s as long as we preserve the direction, the culture, the values, and yeah, I love us, that the fact that we are boutique, what you mentioned about being, you know, more agile and being able to adapt to changes. You know, with us, we’ll make a decision today we implement it tomorrow. I remember speaking to a colleague from very large love, we’re talking about implementing one of the AI tools. I think they were looking at copilot, and I was like, Yeah, well, it’s coming through, between our compliancy, it, etc. You know, number of people. Being involved in our case? Yeah, we make a decision today, implement tomorrow, yep.

Robert Hanna  20:05  

And it is, it is a USP and a competitive advantage. And I think you know that that is the thing you know, where boutique firms can can move at speed, you know, to implement. I love it. Okay, what’s been the biggest lesson you’ve learned whilst building your firm today?

Marcin Durlak  20:21  

Yeah, I think the biggest lesson, I would probably say, is it’s normal that not everything will go according to your plan, and whether you consider it failure, or whether it’s you consider it a challenge obstacle, it’s just inevitable and inevitable that in any business or career path there will be, you know, ups and downs and and, yeah, so it’s, you know, on LinkedIn, I’ve been posting a lots of our success, but I try to keep it balanced. It’s not all about success. It’s not always upwards trajectory. It’s always up and down. So as long as you learn from the downs and learn your lessons, and as long as you think constructively about today, tomorrow, rather than yesterday, what didn’t happen yesterday, I think you should be able to maintain the upwards trajectory. So yeah, learning from mistakes and learning from experience. It’s a big thing, yeah, and it’s inevitable that there will be downs as well as ups.

Robert Hanna  21:28  

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Marcin Durlak  22:38  

I think the biggest, I would probably say two, but they probably close linked together. So when we set up ind in 2015 the first three years or so were upwards trajectory. And by at the time, I didn’t realise it’s inevitable that downs as well are ups. And we kept investing in a team and everything else, and then suddenly we hit massive cash flow problems. And I think it’s, you know, of course, you know, we can, you can try to manage, but, you know, financially, also, for any business, it’s not always upwards trajectory. There are some ups and downs, and we hit serious down right? You know, there was some serious cash flow problems, and we were lucky that we’re able to navigate it, but, but we had to make some serious, you know, changes, make some decisions. And I need to say at this point that, you know, I never trade trained as a business owner, manager or trained to be a lawyer. I started working with a business coach back in 2018 which was absolutely massive learning curve for me. There’s so much stuff we’ve gone through and the foundations we put in in place, it’s been absolutely incredible. And, yeah, it was actually Sanjiv dowdia from action college. I have to mention the name because he’s such an important person on our journey. And and, yeah, it was, it was incredible journey, still building on those foundations. And though the challenges were financial, but, but I think it went back to the team selection, the culture that we had that we’re not even aware of. So, so, yeah, in addition to systems, processes, etc, I think the biggest learning from them, from from from from the time, was, yeah, how important the culture, the values and team selection is, and we were guilty so many times of you know, maybe allowing people to stay longer than they should have, we have always thinking that, yeah, maybe it’s better to have someone than no one. And yeah, I think our approach is different now it’s definitely. We very selective in getting the right people. We don’t always get it right, and it’s another thing you know, we have to accept that, you know, we don’t always get every decision right, and it’s okay, as long as you can draw conclusions and move forward. So big challenges, both financial, cultural, team, we’re lucky to navigate it with some considerable effort. And it’s not always been since 2018 it’s not always be upwards, but the downs were much lower than than the one in 2018 So yeah, if you run a business, whether it’s law, for many business, it’s inevitable. It’s about learning from those experiences and hopefully not making the same mistakes again.

Robert Hanna  25:44  

Yeah, and I love that you touched on coaching. It’s so important because you don’t know what you don’t know, and you may have blind spots, and actually having someone come in and you know, it’s so important, isn’t it? And I think I just put it in a simple sports setting. You look at any professional tennis player, you look at any successful star, they’ve got coaches. They’ve got people around them are bringing out the best of them. And I think business coaching is one of the best investments you can do. And it shows to your people, to yourself, that you you really are passionate. You want to be the best. You want to be the top of your game. And sometimes you don’t know what like you say, what’s going on outside of the four walls, and having that strategic thought process and coaching is so important. Love it. Okay, let’s fast forward now to 2023 where you introduced a four day work week with full pay. What prompted you to adopt a four day work week?

Marcin Durlak  26:28  

Yeah, that’s right, January, 23 we implemented. And on the on the topic of kind of from decision of implementation, decision was made mid December, just before Christmas, implemented first of January. But the full credit has to go to my wife and business partner, Ivan. I it was her two motivators. The first one was her personal one. She really struggled. And you know, we need to realise so many lawyers struggling with, with the mental health and the challenges that the life, not on the work, but also life brings, trying to combine the work, personal life and everything. So it brings lots of challenges. And she thought, yeah, I really need to change something. But, but also thinking about the wider team, her team in a family department, or lawyers in general, struggling with mental health. And she thought, yeah, there must be a way to do it differently. And she would be kind of talking about the four day week, maybe for some time, but that seriously. And then in December 22 we talked about that, she made the decision, yeah, gonna roll it out. And in January 23 it started as effectively a pilot in the family department. It was absolute success. You know, people were obviously a little bit anxious, how we going to fit, you know, that all the work in four days, because we really wanted to implement the four day in a pure form, rather than Okay, well, work Monday to Thursday, but we expect, expected to do 10 hours a week, etc. So we obviously kept the same salary. We we kept the same financial expectations, and obviously client satisfaction expectations. We just staggered the day off the fifth day off across the week, but then we just adopted the mindset and always been part of a culture, it’s about output, not the input. It’s not about the number of hours you work, but but the output and output for us is happy clients and financial results. If this can be achieved in less time, it’s a win, win situation, and kind of trying always to kind of promote this within the team and how we can work differently, how we can work smarter to achieve the same. And maybe we can talk about it a little bit more later, but, but yeah, a nine month on end of financial year, we genuinely managed to achieve 122% so 22% increase in fee income productivity with no substantial changes to the team having recorded 80% of hours on the system. So it’s not that people record the same amount of hours and but 122% on 80% of the time. So this came by, you know, optimising non chargeable time, but also optimising, you know, the work done on the cases where there’s agreed fee, natural, if it’s right, it’s slightly more difficult. And again, so one of the challenges we can talk about, but yeah, the initial results were absolutely fantastic. So then back in 2000 in October 2023 we decided to throw that out across the firm. Right now, since in spring 2024 everyone’s been working on a four day week, and we’re not even looking back. We’re growing profitably. It is growing year end 24 i. Achieve 29% growth in profitability with everyone being on a four day week. So it’s working for us. I’m sure it’s not. It helps in terms of better work, life, balance, avoiding burnout, but it’s like not a solution for everything. You know, we we still have team, and we talk about it openly, struggling with some challenges, mental health challenges, and we’re looking for the ways to support them, but it definitely helped to get improved work life balance.

Robert Hanna  30:29  

Yeah, which is important, isn’t it? I think well being is so, so important. You want people coming that feel refreshed, happy, motivated, absolutely purpose and can really deliver their best for themselves, and, of course, for your for your clients. And yeah, I sometimes less is more, isn’t it? Less? Days, more output, more productivity, more more things that can happen. Okay, in a recent article, um Q, a on implementing the four day week in a law firm you share, we rely heavily on our stream, framework and culture of innovation, we’ve implemented several time saving tools. So can you tell us about the tools you’re currently utilising to maintain open mindset across the firm and encourage everyone to work smarter?

Marcin Durlak  31:09  

Yeah. So when we, when we it’s been a learning curve from us, and I think part of our culture is there’s continue, there’s always room for improvement. We can always do better. So that’s part of who we are. But at the back of the four day week implementation, and with this mindset, it’s all about output, rather than input, you know, happy clients, financial results, we came up with with something I called a stream framework. So as for standardisation, think what you can standardise. T for technology, AI. Let’s think what tools, what AI we can implement to to help us deliver same or more in less time, are for rest and recharge. And, you know, we’ve had people reporting that, yeah, after this extra day off, they come, you know, fully refreshed, they become more productive, which is fantastic. E for eliminating efficiencies. I mean, I guarantee that whether you are working in the law firm or anywhere else, there will be 10 or 20% of your time or tasks that you’re doing that have zero importance or there’s no productivity, not bringing any value. So eliminating inefficiencies a for automations. So what things you can automate, you know, in your workflows and for meeting efficiency and and I think we quite often see this in in large organisations where we have, you know, 568, people sitting in a meeting and not really. It’s no need for it. So, so is the meeting necessary? Does it have a structured agenda instead of one hour, can we do it in half an hour? Instead of half an hour? Can we do it in 15 minutes? So, so the stream framework is something we and we share. We talk about it and encourage very much everyone to think about it, how they can improve the work of you know, individually within the department, we also brought, actually, we respond to your question shortly, but we also implemented innovation bonus, just a small bonus, but just to encourage and incentivize everyone to think about how we can work differently. So it’s not only about introducing AI tools and technology, but also maybe thinking about different methods of working, how we can work differently, and it has been a real success. So I mean the tools that are different, but even as simple as digital note taking right in all the days, you know, when you have a new thing with a client, whether teams or in person, you would bring in a trainer, a junior who take notes, spend an hour in a meeting, then, you know, put the notes together. It’s two hours out of the window, right? Yeah. So we use, you know, the digital note taker plugs into the teams calls or in person meetings, and you have a beautiful bullet points, transcript, summary, action points in another meeting in zero time, so that just one of the one of the examples, and I know we use for example, text plays for kind of document, sort of for the email, automated email templates, snippet production, the number of kind of little tools that kind of make our life easier. Very much. Look forward to implementing Clio and look forward to the AI capabilities, which will I’m hoping take take their productivity to the next level. So sometimes it’s not even about the AI tools. It’s about kind of thinking outside of the box, and how we can make the work more efficient and what’s really important and how we can achieve the same outcome in less time, right? You know, whether we really need to spend an hour drafting a piece of document, maybe the same objective can be achieved by sending a simple email. Etc. So just really depends on the scenario, yeah.

Robert Hanna  35:02  

And I love that you motivate people as well to innovate, you know, and actually their ideas feel seen, heard and valued. Hence, there’s, you know, small bonus, like you say at the end of it, as well. And yeah, like you’re touching on their little tools, but big impact, right? And you’re building momentum. You’re adding inputs, what I described as, like, energy inputs, with these pieces of technology. And obviously, when Cleo arrives and with their Clio duo and their AI tools, I think it’s going to really enhance, obviously, workflows and efficiencies. Okay, so going back to the four day week, then what would be your advice to other law firm owners that might be listening to this, who might be thinking about the idea or thinking of adopting a four day working week to their firm? What would you say?

Marcin Durlak  35:40  

Yeah, I think I would probably say that first, you really need to consider the culture and the team, because I think for for this initiative and for remote working, by the way, you know we, we’ve been operating remotely with Zoe office, head office, Manchester office in London and Birmingham. But everyone has a full flexibility. It needs to be based on trust. There is no room for micromanagement, but that the culture and the right culture and the right people is absolute foundation. So first I would look at and have a reflection on what the culture actually is, and if there are right people to make this, make this move, assuming it is, then you can start small, right? We started small with a pilot in family department. This was announced as a pilot for the period of six months in one department. So this way you allow yourself to, you know, to test it without long term commitment. And I would also say it’s about identifying what the success look like in terms of the numbers. So what’s really, really important? And I think that was a period of time where our KPIs were, like, really, really complex. We were measuring far too many things. And now we keep things simple, right? It comes down to happy clients, and we measure client satisfaction both at the end of the case, we also send, send out a net net promoter score survey to every open client every quarter. On this basis, we measure client satisfaction for individual lawyers, for for the department, for the whole firm. So we measure client satisfaction, and we measure financial results, so kind of the billing and business development, depending on a person, and obviously, you know, with some issues, and someone needs support, and we can drill down the numbers, but, but going back to to what I think, and what I suggest is identify what the success look like, and what you expect from a person or team, etc, keep it simple, and then just measure, measure, measured output and and I think it’s about the change in mentality as well. In a sense, it’s not about number of hours you sit in front of a desk. It’s about what really matters, and what matters is happy clients and financial results for the firm, so

Robert Hanna  38:23  

yeah, and so KISS principle, keeping it simple is so so, so important, because if you confuse people, you’re going to lose people, and you’re going to cause overwhelm. And you know, I remember a mentor said to me very early on in my career, what gets measured gets done, right? So if you can simplify what gets measured, then you can review it. You can look at the data. You can make more informed decisions on data rather than emotions. Sometimes when your emotions go up, your intelligence decision making can go down. So I love that approach and really good advice. Thanks for sharing that. Okay, let’s talk about IMD corporate, because it’s a trading style of your firm focusing on legal solutions for global businesses. So tell us more about the corporate segment and the solutions they deliver.

Marcin Durlak  39:00  

Yeah, so IMD corporate is essentially a trading style by the solicitors. Around five years ago, we thought that would love to create a dedicated brand for businesses. It has evolved to a brand serving both those international and local businesses with both international and local client base, and we do offer services across the range of areas, from corporate commercial, commercial disputes, construction, corporate Immigration, so employment, so, yeah, pretty full range of support, very exciting, growing project, I think as a law firm, we kind of reach real exciting stage where we build those foundations, by way of, you know, obviously great culture core team. But. But also, kind of building our reputation, winning or being shortlisted for number of awards, climbing up legal 500 ladder, getting the Sunday Times best places to work, and attracting some really top talent from some top 30, top 50 law firms, and really exciting times that we kind of, you know, start growing on the building on this one, and growing the team and some absolutely amazing experts and people joining our team. So, but growth, yes, exciting, yes. But I always say, not at all costs. So

Robert Hanna  40:33  

grow as you go. And I guess you know, this bleeds nicely on to my area, which is legal recruiting, right? Because there’s growing you’re going to be hiring. So I want to talk about how you hire for cultural fit over sort of stereotypical CV tick boxing styles, and what are some of the factors you take into consideration when making a culturally fit hire for the firm.

Marcin Durlak  40:53  

So I always believe that that the person who is a great culture fit. Can learn and grow and build experience, obviously, naturally. Sometimes we’re looking for head of department partner level, so this experience for many positions will be, will be critical, but generally, I do believe that person who is right cultural fit can learn the skills, but someone who is the wrong culture fit, even with absolutely amazing skills, they will not feel the tip with the team and can do more damage. And I remember speaking to one of the lawyers at one of the conferences, and he was boasting about his client following, which was like very, very substantial and dealing with international arbitration potential would be a great fit, but the way this person was speaking to that female colleague was maybe indirectly but disrespectful, and I wouldn’t want to have this sort of person on a team, but responding to your Question. So yes, of course, we looking at our core values and core behaviours, respect honesty, commitment to excellence, but caring. But I’m also a big fan of the ideal team player model by Patrick Lanciani, so humble, hungry and smart is the model. Very much. Recommend this book to any business owner or manager. So this is the model we try to apply as well. Yeah, absolutely love it. Love it. And so it’s a people you know, that fit this model, that will fit to our team, I think,

Robert Hanna  42:38  

yeah. And I love that you have that focus, you know, because it’s important, isn’t it? I remember again, someone said to me earlier on, when I was going into businesses, setting up things. He said, it’s sometimes Rob It’s better to have a hole than an A hole. And you know, there is, there is some truth behind that for sure. Okay, this has been a really fascinating discussion. Let’s talk a lot about now going into the future, because you’ve been very keen to adopt technology, lean into AI, find new entrepreneurial service offerings, etc, etc. So the firm is thriving. As you’ve mentioned, you’ve had multi awards. You know, you’re a team of 50. You’ve enlisted in the Sunday Times, best places to work, etc, etc. But what does some of the future plans of the firm look like? Yeah, I think

Marcin Durlak  43:19  

we definitely at the stage of growing and building the team. So, yes, we might be approaching a team of 50, but, you know, there are some key appointments we looking to make, and want to get them right. So, so I think that the future looks building on the reputation that we have and getting more recognition and being seen as you know, innovate, innovative, both in terms of working practices, technology, innovative firm and attractive employer that also values and values mental health and well being for the team, and keeping the right balance between delivering absolute excellent client service and also looking after the lawyers. But how the future looks like. It’s about growth. It’s about balanced growth. It’s about becoming the well known brand for the work we do and and, yeah, having absolutely amazing team that is very much aligned with our culture. Yeah, it’s all about people. It’s all about the team and culture.

Robert Hanna  44:39  

Yeah, people matter, don’t they? And I think we is greater than me. The more you can build that team, and you can go together and grow you can have such impact, and you’re doing a great job, and you emphasise so much around values and culture, and that’s obviously why the firms continue to go from strength to strength. This has been a really insightful conversation. So before I let you go for our list for sort of solicitors who are also aspiring on. Entrepreneurs, what is your top piece of advice for building a successful practice from the ground up?

Marcin Durlak  45:05  

I’m a risk taker, but I would say just, just give a go. Go, dive in, but be open minded. Accept the fact that you’re not always going to get it right. Accept the fact that as part of our culture, there’s always room for improvement. It’s about the continuous improvement. Is about self awareness. And you know, if things go wrong, just just try to best constructive solution, and then just absolutely do you can do your best. So, yeah, I think it’s, it’s about taking a risk sometimes and learning from the mistakes. Because ultimately, running a business is a massive learning curve, regardless of where we are and what’s the size of the business, and as long as we learn from it, the future is bright.

Robert Hanna  45:58  

I love that mindset, and it’s so true. And I heard recently, you know, it’s not the hardest working people at the most successful it’s people who take the most amount of risk that are and I think that leads to what you said. You know, sometimes if you don’t risk anything, you potentially risk everything. You could be one away business idea, if you’ve got that floating in your head, or that partnership, or that application for that role, or whatever it might be, you might be comfortable in a job, but sort of take that risk to take that next step. Love that advice. This has been a really, really insightful conversation. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it much, and so it’s been an absolute pleasure, sort of having you on the show. If our listeners want to learn more about your career, or indeed, IMD solicitors, where can they go to find out more? Feel free to share any websites, any social media handles. We’ll also share them with this episode for

Marcin Durlak  46:37  

you too. Yeah, absolutely you want to find out more about the firm. The website is imd.co.uk, always happy to connect with with other lawyers and not on lawyers. So please find me on LinkedIn and say hi and and connect. So LinkedIn is always, always amazing tool to connect, and you never know when, when, at some point in the future the connection may and how it may evolve, I suppose. Yeah, so please feel free to connect, and I’ll keep

Robert Hanna  47:12  

banging on about it. You’re potentially only one connection away from changing your life. So look, Martin, thanks so much again. It’s been a real pleasure having you on. The legally speaking podcast, sponsored by Clio, but from now, from all of us wishing you lots of continued success with your career, indeed, the firm and future pursuits over and out. Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. If you like the content here, why not check out our world leading content and Collaboration Hub, the legally speaking club, over on Discord. Go to our website, www, dot legally speaking podcast.com. Has a link to join our community there. Over and out.