On today’s Legally Speaking Podcast, I’m delighted to be joined by Amy Clowrey. Amy is a Solictor and the Director of the Child Compensation Team at Switalskis. She is the firm’s Training Principal, responsible for Qualifying Solicitrors, Solicitor Apprentices and Graduate Solitcitor Apprentices. Amy was awarded Lawyer of the Year at the Modern Law Awards 2023 and Rising Star Legal 500 Northern Powerhouse Awards 2024. She is passionate about encouraging and supporting the next generation of lawyers into the legal profession.

So why should you be listening in? 

You can hear Rob and Amy discussing:

– Amy Clowrey’s Personal And Professional Journey

– Implementing Advocacy and Legal Reform

– Mental Health in Law and its Importance

– Supporting Future Lawyers

– Media and Public Advocacy

Connect with Amy Clowrey here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-clowrey/

Transcript

Amy Clowrey  0:00  

Nothing happens if nothing happens. At that time that I wanted to be a child abuse lawyer, the women I represented who had significant mental health issues, oftentimes that was as a result of them being abused as children, and then their children were taken away from them. Thankfully, sweet taskers did have a child abuse team, so I made a beeline to come back here when I qualified, and I’ve been here ever since. So for me, all of the work that I’m doing, there’s a bigger picture to it, and there’s hopefully some change going to occur as a result of it.

Robert Hanna  0:28  

On today’s legally speaking podcast, I’m delighted to be joined by Amy Clowrey. Amy is a solicitor and the director of child compensation team at Zoe towskis. She is the firm’s training principal responsible for qualifying solicitors, solicitor apprentices and graduate solicitor apprentices. Amy was awarded lawyer of the year at Modern Law awards, 2023 and rising star legal 500 northern powerhouse awards, 2024 she is passionate about encouraging and supporting the next generation of lawyers into the profession. So a very big, warm welcome to the show, Amy.

Amy Clowrey  1:00  

Thank you for having me.

Robert Hanna  1:02  

It’s absolute pleasure to have you on the show. And before we get into your amazing career and all the great things you’re doing in and around the world of legal we do have a customary icebreaker question here on the legally speaking podcast, which is on the scale of one to 10, with 10 being very real, what would you rate the hit TV series suits, in terms of its reality of the law, if you’ve seen it.

Amy Clowrey  1:25  

Well, in my experience, suits is a little bit sexier than life in the law here. But I can’t speak for every law firm, but I would say I’d give it a five out of 10 to be diplomatic, yeah.

Robert Hanna  1:38  

And that’s what I’ve given it before, and I think that’s a very valid five. And with that, we’ll move swiftly on to talk all about you. So to begin with, Amy, would you mind telling our listeners about your background and career journey?

Amy Clowrey  1:49  

Yeah. So I am a child abuse lawyer, and I work for a large law firm called skis. We’re based in predominantly in Yorkshire, but we are a national firm. We’ve got about 400 employees, and I joined sweet house skis nearly 10 years ago. So I’m coming up to my 10th anniversary, and actually I was seconded here during my training contract. So I feel like I’ve been here for forever. Uh, now, but um, so my legal journey started, I think, when I was probably about 14 or 15, and that’s when I made the decision that I wanted to be, to be a lawyer. And that predominantly stemmed from, I think, my mum and dad getting divorced, and me wanting to understand the process, and that sort of piqued my interest. And then my dad would always say to me that I ask why a lot, and that I’d make a good lawyer. So, and I looked into it, I thought, You know what? I think I would so I went for it, and didn’t study law at a level because I was advised not to, and I was told that what the universities prefer it if you’ve got a clean slate. And I’m not sure how true that is, but that’s what I did. And then I went to Huddersfield university because at the time, there was only two universities in England that offered the combined undergraduate law degree and legal practice course, and that meant that I could get student finance for the whole of the course, which, to me, was perfect, because I couldn’t really afford, you know, I didn’t have savings like that, and I didn’t really want to get a bank loan, so I opted for Huddersfield because it was closest to home, and I had a great experience there. And during my second year of university, the University had a summer programme where you could apply to a law firm as an intern. So I did that, managed to get a local internship, stayed there during the summer at the on the last day, I knocked on the boss’ door and said, Can I come back for free? And he said, No, you can’t. Well, you can come back and I’ll pay you. So during university, I worked there every hour that I wasn’t working on my studies, and then it was a given that I’d got a job at the end of it. So that was brilliant. I then started my training there, and it was a High Street firm, but they didn’t do every area of law, so I was seconded to sweet house kids solicitors into their child care team. I had a brilliant time. I really enjoyed it, but I knew it wasn’t the area for me, because I sounds ridiculous doing the area of law that I work in now, but I found it too emotive. It was, it was too emotional for me. I’d go home, I’d be thinking about the children being taken away from the parents. And, you know, I just found it too tough. So I decided at that time that I wanted to be a child abuse lawyer, because I noticed that of the women I represented who had significant mental health issues, oftentimes that was as a result of them being abused as children, and then their children were taken away from them. And I thought, that’s that’s what I want to do. Thankfully, sweet tasks. Did have a child abuse team, so I made a beeline to come back here when I qualified, and I’ve been here ever since. And I’m a lot I love my job,

Robert Hanna  4:58  

and you doing so for. Fantastically well. And I think there’s a really good lesson in there as well for all aspiring lawyers or people looking to come into the profession, or just generally, if you don’t ask the question, the answer is always no. And like you said at that time, asking for that opportunity, and actually no, I’ll come back and I’ll pay you. I think is sometimes being brave enough to put yourself out there and just ask questions is really, really important. So let’s fast forward then to the present day. You sort of touched on what inspired you from a personal circumstance to get into the area of law that you’re in. But tell us more about your day to day role and what that involves.

Amy Clowrey  5:30  

Well, it’s quite varied now, because I’m a director as well as a solicitor within the team. So I do lots and lots of managerial stuff. I’m the Training principle for the firm, and we’ve got, I think, in the region of about 17 trainees and apprentices at the moment. So that keeps me really busy, and I get involved in all of that. I’m also part of the AI committee, so get involved in that. Um, outside of work, I am on the Law Society council for Yorkshire and Humberside and the Yorkshire Univ law society. So I do, you know, quite a bit outside of work as well, and sometimes that overlaps into my day job. So I quite like the variety of it. It keeps me sort of sane. But generally, you know, I think at the moment, I’d say my life is is incredibly busy, because there’s been a lot in the press recently, over recent months about child sexual exploitation. So I’ve been doing a lot of media work and lots of new inquiries and just trying to manage that case load. But when life is a bit more calm, generally, the type of work that I do does mean that I am behind my desk. I tend to be the one that’s supporting clients, and, you know, dealing with their police complaints, dealing with complaints to the council hand, holding them through criminal trials and generally, trying to represent them as best I can through the civil courts as well. So it’s a really on hands approach that that I have, and lots and lots of face to face work,

Robert Hanna  7:04  

yeah, and you’re fantastic at what you do, testament to, obviously, everything you’ve achieved and you’re doing and the progression that you’ve received, I think, what from my perspective of sort of recruiting for various law firms over the years, the approach to clients is so important for you as a legal professional, and your approach is about building a professional relationship with your client. With your clients at their own pace. So can you talk us through the relationship building process you tend to adopt from

Amy Clowrey  7:29  

the kind of work that I do is really personal to an individual, and often it’s not about you being the best lawyer for the job. It’s about you being somebody that they can feel, that they can have a relationship with and confide in, so a bit like the therapist patient relationship, sometimes there’s a clash of personalities, and you just don’t get on. And I think I take that approach into my work, and I often at the beginning of a case, before I’ve even taken a client on, I’ll say this is about you liking me and the way that I work, and if that’s not the right fit, then please let me know, because there are other people in our team that I can refer you on to. Or alternatively, if another law firm is a better fit for you, then that’s absolutely fine. And I take that approach generally through throughout the case, and try not to put too much pressure on, you know, I wait for the client to contact me in terms of obtaining instructions and when I’m providing when I’m looking to take their statement, that can sometimes take months and months and months because they just need to do it at a snail’s pace, or sometimes there are other things that are going on in their life which makes it too difficult for them to engage with me at certain points, and I just have to be really understanding of that and let them come to me. And the other thing is, with this type of work, is that trust can be lost very, very quickly. So all of the people that I represent have been let down by people in positions of authority and positions of power, and they see lawyers as the same, same as that. So building a relationship can be quite slow. But then, if you don’t say you’re going to call when you you’ve said you will, or you don’t do something that you’ve said you’re going to they can very quickly lose that trust. So it’s just making sure that you’re 100% in for them and and they can call you for, you know, whatever they need, essentially, and recognise, but also recognise. And I think that it is a really difficult area of law, so you have to be really mindful of your own mental health. And sometimes, you know, you do have to say, I can’t do this today for whatever reason. And I find it quite helpful to to know when I’m going to have those difficult calls, so that I can prepare for when I’m taking a witness statement. And I think having an understanding of your own mental health and have an understanding of how vicarious trauma can impact your your working life is really important, because then you can best represent

Robert Hanna  9:57  

your clients. Yeah, and again, thank you for being so in. Depth and authentic in your answer. And I think that comes out of that, for me, is being human, right? It’s that human to human connection with your clients and understanding their situation, not obviously, as a lead professional, but, you know, maybe they may need to go a certain pace, or it might need to be at this point in time, and you actually connecting. And I was talking about this, no longer B to B, B to C, H. It’s human to human connection in the world of service delivery now that people are craving and you’re obviously doing a tremendous job of that. You leaned into a few things before, but one of the things we talk a lot about on the show is about inspiring minds of the future and transforming people’s future. And you’re mentioning around protecting your health and certain things you may want to build on that. But my next question is around you’ve had rapid career progression. As you mentioned, you have a dual role now, in terms of listening director, you’ve progressed very well. What makes, what’s the difference between a good lawyer and a great lawyer in your area?

Amy Clowrey  10:48  

I think it goes back to the same thing. I think it’s about being human, and you can, you can be a really great technical lawyer, but quite often those individuals don’t end up as directors, because they’re not as great with being human and being somebody that some people can approach within the firm. So I think it’s about that, and it’s about thinking outside the box and using your initiative.

Robert Hanna  11:16  

I think it’s clear that you’re very good at doing that, and is it possible for you to share one of your most memorable cases you’ve worked on, or, if not, one that perhaps you know stuck with you and you would like to share?

Amy Clowrey  11:32  

Yeah, so for me, I think the most memorable, memorable case is one that is actually being in the press, and she is a brilliant brilliant woman. She’s referred to as Erin, so I’ll call her that during this conversation, and she was really badly let down by the authorities in West Yorkshire. But no, it wasn’t just the police and the local authority. It was the NHS. It was the independent children’s home she was placed in. And that case took, I think, seven, six or seven years for me to deal with, and it was really tough, because she had quite difficult, difficult time. You know, at home, there was an ongoing trial, and it was a lot of hand holding for a really long period of time. And we’ve got to the end of the case, and not only have we secured settlement from all of the various defendants that sued, but also she’s she’s going on to want to do speaking and you know, she’s been involved in training other professionals. So she’s been involved in training barristers about how to cross examine survivors in court during sort of, you know, significant trials where there’s a number of defendants, and I think that is phenomenal. Very shortly, we’re going to be meeting with the local council and to talk about how she can get involved with helping young people in the area. Next month, we’ve got a meeting with police to talk about how her ideas and her sort of thoughts for building better relationships and better protecting children in West Yorkshire, and I think that she’s going to go on to be a real powerhouse, and it makes me really proud. So it’s not necessarily just about it’s the case. It’s about the aftermath of it, and what that case has led her to go on to do. And I just think she’s, she’s brilliant. I just think she’s going to go on to do two incredible things, and

Robert Hanna  13:31  

it must be wonderful for you to see, and you probably get a lot of intrinsic value from from that as well, you know, like you say, and then the impact they’re going on to to give following, you know their experiences, and again, thank you for sharing that. I want to talk about sort of high profile cases, referring to Lambeth, because you lead the firm’s work regarding the Lambeth Children’s Home Redress Scheme. So representing, I think, 25% of applicants on this scheme. Can you tell us more about the particular scheme, and what did you learn from representing those particular applicants?

Amy Clowrey  14:01  

Yeah, so the Lambeth Children’s Home Redress Scheme was one of the first schemes of its type in England. It was to know it was, was one of the best ways for redress that I’ve seen, because the damages that individuals received was not minimal. It wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t pennies, it was, it was something that could change their lives. And I thought that was really great. By that that local council, they also received a letter of apology as well, which meant quite a lot to a number of them. And there was opportunity for counselling and whatnot as well. That case, or those cases were really quite harrowing, and it was the first time I’d seen such widespread institutional abuse, and, you know, significant people in significant places of authority that and their names coming up time and time again. And I thought, I thought. Of the work we did in relation to representing those those individuals was, was good. And, yeah, it was a tough few years because it was really, really pressurised. There was quite a number of people that came forward, so we had to really dig deep within the team to get those cases through. But we, we, you know, we managed it, and it was something that I really, actually, really enjoyed that piece of work, good.

Robert Hanna  15:28  

I’m pleased. I’m pleased to hear that. And obviously it’s great work that you’ve continued to do. And I guess talking more about your your media work then, because you have been sort of here, there and everywhere, in a good way, you also featured on a channel four documentary. So what did you play? What role did you play in that particularly documentary, and what would you like to discuss?

Amy Clowrey  15:50  

So the documentary is about child sexual exploitation and rape gangs in England and Wales, really. But in my view, it’s probably not a national issue. I think it’s an international issue. And within that, that documentary, I represented two of of the women. So I represent Erin, not her real name, and scarlet, when it is that her real name, but she’s not, she’s worked on limited so I can, I can share that. And my role within that documentary was just to share my insight about how the justice system works for those children that have been abused and are trying to get police to investigate their cases, but also to discuss how the ongoing civil cases are impacting individuals, and just to generally talk about my experience of supporting those women and what I’ve seen and the themes that I’ve seen, that that really did what I wasn’t expecting that documentary to to get so much attention. To be honest, I thought that a few people watch it, but I didn’t think it would be the whole nation. And as a result of that, we’ve been down to meetings at the House of Lords to have discussions about the ways in which MPs can make changes to better support victims and survivors of abuse. And I think there will probably be follow up work now done as a result of that. And I do think that that documentary then, because it all happened in it, it was a very you know, it was coincidence that it happened like this, but we had Elon Musk making representations on x about on this topic, and calling out our government, and then very shortly after that, the documentary was aired, and as I say, it was just a happy coincidence that that happened, but because all of this lined up in such a short period of time, it really has got the nation behind us. So we’re now seeing much more conversation about what’s going to happen in the future for not just the children of today, but helping survivors navigate life as adults. So that, I think has been is brilliant, and it’s one of the reasons, and to be honest, it’s really the only reason that I try and get involved in press work is to spark change. You may have recently seen there’s been lots of stuff in the media about South Yorkshire Police and the their failure to investigate their own officers as perpetrators of abuse in in South Yorkshire so this last few weeks, I’ve been spending quite a lot of time speaking to the media about that issue, because I’m trying to I’m trying to ensure that this is taken off South Yorkshire Police and given to another police force or another body to investigate. So for me, all of the work that I’m doing, there’s a bigger picture to it, and there’s hopefully some change going to occur as a result of it.

Robert Hanna  18:57  

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Amy Clowrey  20:22  

So in relation to the 100 years project, that is sort of a separate project that’s being run by Donna that I just absolutely support. And I think she’s phenomenal, and I can’t wait to see what she achieves as the DVP, and then on, you know, to become vice president, President, I think she’s going to be absolutely excellent, and she really is a change maker. So that is, that is exciting times. But in terms in terms of general initiatives, I just, you know, anything that sort of comes through my door, that I think is, is Could, could spark positive change in the workplace or the wider profession, is something that I will get involved in. So for example, I’m just going to go back now to my JLD days to sort of give you an example of how that started. But you know, when the junior lawyers were being struck off for really minor offences, we spent a lot of time lobbying for change there. Or, you know, in the workplace, lobbying for Mental Health First Aiders or lobbying for trauma training. So it’s all very small things I think that I get involved in, which I hope that in the long run, will, you know, all knit together so that we have a better profession for aspiring lawyers coming in. Yeah. I just I get that. I think that’s probably Sun Zoe, yeah.

Robert Hanna  21:46  

And it’s commendable, isn’t it, that you give time to give back to hopefully make it a better profession for the next generation. And I think that’s a real role model trait that you you possess. And obviously, I know you’re doing a tremendous job internally in terms of helping the next generation become better lawyers within the profession. You shared also, no, you’re most welcome, and that’s why we’re really keen to have today’s discussion. I was gonna say, you’ve shared previous also gone.

Amy Clowrey  22:12  

So I was just gonna say to add, I think that those of us that have managed to build our way up through the profession have a responsibility to make sure that it’s inclusive for the for the younger generation coming through, and that’s why I continue to get involved in these initiatives, because otherwise we’ll end up going back to, You know, a really, you know, middle class profession, and I don’t want to see that happen. I think diversity is key, and diversity ensures that we can better represent different clients,

Robert Hanna  22:53  

and that actually leads nicely onto what I was going to ask you next, actually, in terms of you shared previously, I believe being from a low socio economic background with no connections or contacts, I found it difficult to find my home in the legal profession. So with that, then, what advice would you give to those who come from a similar socio economic background to you looking to break into the profession?

Amy Clowrey  23:15  

I found it really tough, actually, because even things like knowing which type of universities to go to, you don’t have that information when you come from a lower economic background, because, you know, nobody’s discussing that at the dinner table, if that makes sense, whereas it might be now that that, you know, if I had a child, that I could have those discussions with them about what the best universities Are, and, you know, I’d be looking at stats and grades for them. And I think it starts really, really young. So for anybody that’s thinking about going into legal sector from as early as they possibly can, I’d be trying to reach out to meet people. There are so many people in the legal sector that will give up their time for free to help people. There are so many initiatives out there to get people into the profession. So I would be trying to build a network of people from a really young age. And that’s kind of what I did, really so I fell into the JLD through the Huddersfield and Halifax Law Society JLD at the time, which we co founded, that then led me to become the national representative of that law society and go on to be on the national JLD, which was incredible, I think, is really the reason why I’m now direct to expertality, is because it gave me so many soft skills that I wouldn’t have learned in my day job, and it gave me lots and lots of confidence because I was speaking to key stakeholders and really important people that I might not, never, might never have had that opportunity to to do. So I think it’s that’s the thing I think is most important, is building your network. And also one of the things. Things that I have found I was thinking about this morning is that taking opportunities before you’re ready for them, because actually you’re never going to be ready. You’ll always think. You’ll always that’s self critical voice in your brain will always undermine you and always tell you that you aren’t ready for something, when actually no one’s ever ready for it. We’re all always learning. And as a lawyer, it’s one of the things that I love the most. You will always be learning in your job until the day that you retire. So any opportunity that comes your way, take it and learn as you’re doing it is probably one of my other top tips,

Robert Hanna  25:37  

yeah, and things that I just fully support. And our listeners be fed up with me talking about it, but I talk about NSN, which has never stopped networking. And you know, the comfort zone is great, but nothing ever grows there. And you’ve put yourself in environments, then you’ve gone and skilled, stacked and actually acquired life experiences outside of the existing role, which has actually enhanced you overall as a professional as you’ve gone through your journey, and it’s enabled you to push forward and do great things. And the reality is, when it comes to fear, you know, most things that you’re looking for to achieve is the other side of fear. So if you can just get over that and actually go and take action, then you’ll be amazed about the growth and opportunities that come for it, and talking about the opportunities and exposure that you’ve had the Sunday Times, because you recently featured in there too, highlighting the ongoing concerns with with gangs and the importance of learning from past failures to protect future generations. So tell us more about that particular feature. And what did you discuss in that article?

Amy Clowrey  26:31  

Essentially over, over the last decade of working at tasks during that we’ve just found failing after failing, where you will have a report commissioned, those recommendations are never implemented. And then the same there’s, you know, there’s a cycle. Children are just being failed. So I think we need to be looking at in in depth, looking at what has gone wrong within our society as a whole, not just in relation to the police, but in relation to council, the government, why we have not tackled these issues, and only then will we be able to learn from the past mistakes, and if we and if we implement the recommendations of any report that we’ve had commissioned, because the piece in The Times relates to failures over three days where children have been abused, and more recently, We’ve found that there’s children that have been abused by police officers and that there was corruption within the police force and generally just failure to or an unwillingness to investigate. Now we’ve had lots and lots of reports over the years, so for example, in Robin with the J report, then we’ve had the independent inquiry child sexual abuse that had lots of many different reports for each strand of abuse they looked at, but the overarching report had 20 recommendations, and only three of those recommendations have been implemented so far, and we’re over 1000 days since that, that report and recommendations came out. And then more recently, we’ve had the Baroness Casey report, and that’s got some recommendations. Within it as well. So what’s happening is we’re having report after report, and we’re not learning lessons because we’re not implementing these recommendations. So nothing’s actually changing. It’s essentially just just talking with no action. So what we’re trying to do over as a result of all of it’s trying to force the government to take action so that change is implemented and that we don’t have the same cycle of abuse go on for another 30 years, because otherwise we just continue. And ultimately, what that leads to is adults and society that have been really failed and let down, and have signal, ultimately, have quite significant mental health issues as a result of that. And so we need to, need to intervene, and we need to make sure that the government’s being held to account.

Robert Hanna  28:55  

Yeah, you know, as a mentor, taught me very early on in life, you know, nothing changes. If nothing changes, and then that’s the point that you’re referencing there, you know, and holding people accountable as as well to ensure that things follow through. You’ve touched on mental health, and rightly so, and it’s something that we like to discuss openly here and fully support on the show, because you are a mental health and physical health first, aider. So how would you advocate for positive mental health practices within the workplace?

Amy Clowrey  29:25  

I became a Mental Health First Aider one, because I think it’s important for myself to understand mental health and have some awareness of it, both positive and negative. And I also think that leads into the type of work that that I’m doing, so I’m dealing with people that have got mental health issues every day. So I think it’s really, really important for me to have a basic understanding of that, like I’m not obviously medically trained, but to be able to have Mental Health First Aid training, to be able to signpost them to to people, is really, really important. And I. Actually means I can give them a better level of client care. But then in the workplace, I think that also means I can help my colleagues. So I mean, only only yesterday did somebody come to me and say, You’re a mental health first, aider, I’m struggling. We talk to me, and it’s having that open and transparent sort of conversation that I think leads to positive change in relation to mental health, because it means that people feel that they can come to you and discuss what’s going on. And aside from that, generally speaking, I, you know, I’m a real advocate for flexible working, and especially in the type of work that I’m doing. If, for example, somebody’s had a really tough time on a client, with a client for a couple of hours, and they need a half an hour to just go and decompress. That’s fine. I’m also a real advocate for trauma informed training. So any lawyer that’s dealing with emeritive areas of law, I think, need to make sure that they’re trauma informed not only to better represent their clients, but to better understand when they are perhaps suffering from burnout and out, and they need to take a rest. And I regularly will pass initiatives that I think are positive on to that HRT mortality management board I recently sent one a couple of days ago about mental health supervision for those that are dealing with mental health, so areas where individuals might be struggling with mental health issues. So I think it’s keeping on top of what’s going on in the world and what new initiatives there are, and making sure that if you think that, if you think that as an individual, that that something is important and will make a difference to you and the people around you, then you should, I think you should advocate, advocate for that, because that we talk about delegated responsibility quite often. You know, as a number of people that probably should put their hand up and say, this is something that could happen, or this is a change we need. But actually, because everybody thinks it’s somebody else’s responsibility, nothing ever happens. And so I try not to do that. I try to always say, This is what I think, and if that’s not, you know, follow through on then at least I put my hand up and said, I think we are, you know, I’ve put my piece forward, in my opinion, forward otherwise, I just don’t think, you know, like you say, nothing happens if nothing happens,

Robert Hanna  32:16  

yeah, and I think you’re, you know, taking responsibility and being proactive as well, and genuinely caring and creating safe spaces to allow for those conversations to happen and for the changes to happen, as you allude to there. And so I guess that kind of brings us dovetails nicely into training, because you’re also Zoe towski training principal, responsible for qualifying solicitors, solicitor apprenticeships and graduate solicitor apprentices. So how do you support those who are still on their journey to qualify?

Amy Clowrey  32:44  

Well, firstly, I always meet them at the very outset, so they know that I’m approachable. From dadoc, we are a big law firm, so I can’t see everybody face to face, because they just, there’s just not enough hours in the day, and you know they’d be travelling. My whole life, but nevertheless, I meet with them quite regularly to check how they’re getting in. And I check in with the line managers and the HR team. I have a brilliant, brilliant talent manager who helps me with all of that. And we also brought in internal training. So we get the directors or senior members of the firm to provide training to junior members. I invite them to tell me what they need training on, so that we can make sure that that’s that’s given. And it might be things like how to manage difficult clients, or how to time record effectively, or how to manage their own well being, how to good advocacy, for example, it’s all things that they might not be taught at law school or job in the SQA. So we try and do that. They also make sure that they have socials regularly. I’m not invited, as you can imagine, of course. But you know, they meet every few months to get together so that they can build a rapport. And then I’ve also brought in a buddy scheme so they have a year one trainee or apprentice will be matched with a year two apprentice or trainee, so that they can support each other. And I found that’s been quite brilliant, because not only is it helpful so they can ask questions that they might not want to ask me because they feel that it’s a silly question, which there are no silly questions, and I’d be quite happy to ask answer anything that they have, but it’s something that they feel more comfortable with. So try and do that as well. And generally, if there’s any issues that they are facing, then I advocate on their behalf to either the firm or the the if it’s if they’re apprentices, quite often, the law school that they’re with as well.

Robert Hanna  34:57  

Yeah. And it’s tremendous that you go to that level of. Of effort as well, and everything that you do, you know to stress that you’re obviously running your own cases, doing all these other things and wider roles, it’s super commendable. And I want to touch on before we look to close the wider roles you’re involved in, because you are a committee member of the Civil Justice Committee of law society. So can you tell us more about that and your role.

Amy Clowrey  35:21  

So the Civil Justice Committee of the Law Society essentially looks at anything that might impact civil justice and a national level. And I would say that that particular role isn’t as hands on, because the Law Society staff are brilliant, so they essentially run it, and we feed in our expertise into that into that committee, and it’s the chair, is one of my colleagues, John mcquater, who’s an absolutely outstanding lawyer in personal injury and has been doing it for quite a number of years. And but it’s not just about civil personal injury type work, it’s any civil litigation, and then what we do is we feed into the Law Society our expertise, and they will then go away and lobby the relevant bodies that we’ve recommended that they do to facilitate change.

Robert Hanna  36:19  

And change has been a good theme throughout the discussion as well, and making a positive impact that you’re absolutely doing, and you undoubtedly would have inspired a lot of our listeners listening today. So before we let you go, what would be your piece of advice for those interested in an air in your area of law and to specialise in your area of law and wanting to learn more, what would you say to those aspiring solicitors?

Amy Clowrey  36:39  

So first I would say, it isn’t for everyone. It is, you know, the work is, is pretty harrowing. I talked a little bit earlier about how I didn’t like childcare law because it was for me. It wasn’t the right fit. It was happening there and then, and it was too much this type of work. I can get my head around it, because it’s something that’s happened in the past, and I’m now trying to, trying to again, make positive changes for the lives of of my clients. But that’s not to say that that’s for everybody, because the detail, the level of detail about abuse can be, you know, quite harrowing on day to day basis. So firstly, make sure that you feel you know that you you would be able to deal with that, because there is nothing worse than going into an area of law where you feel as though it’s making you unwell. So number one is look after yourself. Then if you do feel that it is an area of law that would be for you try and get some experience in it. It is a really niche area. There aren’t loads of law firms out there that do it, but I’m sure that anybody that works in this area would be quite keen to help aspiring lawyers, so I would do that. And then, thirdly, I think volunteer work. So to give you an idea of whether you’ll like helping people in the way that we do in our team, working in a survivor organisation or working in a charity that supports survivors, will be in, will give you an idea of whether it’s something that you could do as a lawyer when you’re qualified. So I’d say those those three things,

Robert Hanna  38:09  

yeah, really practical, tactical and implementable advice, and that’s what we look for. So thank you for that, and thank you for today. And if our listeners want to follow you or learn more about your career, or indeed, swasthowski solicitors, where can they go to find out more? Feel free to share any websites, any social media handles. We’ll also share them with this episode for you, too.

Amy Clowrey  38:27  

Thank you. So we are on various platforms. So hotel skiers is on LinkedIn, Instagram. I don’t think we’re next anymore, but we’re on Facebook, and then I’m also on X LinkedIn, and also I’ve created a an Instagram profile that is very, it’s very junior days, but it’s there, and it’s called at the Justice lawyer.

Robert Hanna  38:52  

Fantastic. Well, thank you ever so much. Once again, for your time, it’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show from all of us on the legally speaking podcast sponsored by clear, wishing you lots of continued success with your career, but for now, over and out. Thank you for listening to this week’s episode. If you like the content here, why not check out our world leading content and Collaboration Hub, the legally speaking club, over on Discord. Go to our website, www.legallyspeakingpodcast.com has a link to join our community there, over and out.